Commenting on Angry Bear
You have to be on topic to the post to which you are commenting. And “no” this is not my “site,” it is Dan’s site. I will follow his directives from the last time we talked.
If you are a regular here, I have made this known as a moderator. Respect the author by being on topic. Also, respect the author by not making your comment about them.
There are Open Threads to which I make a statement and to which you can comment about or go off in a different direction with your commentary. If you do not see a new Open Thread every four days, let me know and I’ll create one.
I like reading your comments.
Joel Eissenberg has joined with me to help with Angry Bear and also write on different topics other than mine. He is an Administrator also and will have moderating capabilities also. There has to be more than one of us administering the site. Just a heads up.
Thank you.
Bill
yeah, i know. i get pretty frustrated with the likes of Fox News publishing lies that endanger the country. Makes me more sympathetic to the Alien and Sedition Acts.
But, while AB is not subject to First Amendment protection for freedom of speech. the slippery slope to self delusion remains.
I propose an “Open Thread” where you are limited to one paragraph of cut-and-paste per post — no cutting and pasting entire posts from somewhere else.
The reason I rarely post here anymore is that I don’t want to get buried under patching-posties — my couple of lines hidden behind mountains of outside blogs.
No other blog that I know of allows that — must be a reason.
@Denis,
“No other blog that I know of allows that — must be a reason.”
I agree. Apart from respecting our readers, cutting and pasting the entire contents of someone else’s copyright work is a violation of copyright. Fair use permits up to 10%. It should be easy to just post the nut graf and then a link where folks can read the rest.
From the “Contact” page
Based on this post, the contact page needs an update.
@Arne,
Thanks. I updated it.
Arne:
I think for now, talk to me. In a bit, you can plague Joel too.
Sure, but …. I don’t know how to do that since your email is not listed anywhere that I can see.
@Arne,
When I click the “contact” link, I can see email addresses for both Bill (run75441) and me.
Joel:
It may work for us and not for them.
It did not work for me because I managed to forget that run was Bill. That is not clear in the above post or on the contact page, although I could have used my deductive powers.
Arne:
If I poke you a few times, will that help? run75441 is a known commodity. I may switch back to that moniker since I have used it for well over 20 years. Since I lost my friend Dan, I am in somewhat of a quandary of what to do or direction to take. Joel is a “huge” help and a sounding board for me. I(we) have a software update to work through. Then I have to stabilize the Bear and make sure it has resource for the next 20 years. Working on all of this.
Arne:
Joel’s email addy: flylab1@yahoo.com
Mine: run75441@hotmail.com
Be careful what you post.
Fully attribute the authors and the sites. Link to them. I stay away from recent stuff. I support unionization so I might be on top of their announcements as I believe them to be important for the public to know. I usually and mostly wait before I will post a commentary. After weeks or 30 days, I will use it. Again, attribute the site and author. I also started to use dates of publication. I have been posting introductions too.
It really is a thin line.
No other blog? Go visit the first one on the left of our list. They also attribute author and site if the commentary is used.
I am trying to keep some degree of order to our commenting section. People should respect New Deal democrat’s commentaries and not trash them up. He has original info backed by others and more should be reading him.
People should respect New Deal democrat’s commentaries and not trash them up. He has original info backed by others and more should be reading him.
[ Absolutely so. ]
Fred Dobbs is a superb commenter, and the idea that Dobbs is to be limited in any way strikes me as most unfortunate. I can easily read or skip a post be Dobbs, with no problem in following the rest of a thread. Many of Dobb’s comments cannot be read by many readers beyond what Dobbs posts.
Also, threatening to remove posts that are disagreeable to an author, as was done, is quite unfortunate. This seemingly has nothing to do with personal attacks or obscene language.
Please try to avoid censoring when at all possible, and all will be well.
ltr:
I have basically asked:
– be on topic.
– don’t attack the author. The comments were author directed and not topic directed.
– Attribute things C&P ed that are on topic to a post if you use them. Links and Titles are most of it. An author’ name is good such as Krugman’s latest . . .
– Dobbs is not limited in any way as long as he remains on topic to the post which he was not in NDd’s commentary or Joels. I believe Fred already knows this as it is not newly said by me.
“You all” are extremely intelligent people. You cause me to think. I am not being mean or picking on anyone.
@ltr,
The only posts I have removed are (a) personal attacks and (b) off topic posts. I don’t delete posts simply because I disagree with them. The only other person that can delete posts here is Bill. You can discuss his standards with him.
Some blogs don’t allow comments at all. AB does, and I believe that’s a good thing. But allowing comments requires some moderation to prevent trolling.
While I appreciate the content that Fred brings to the AB comment threads, cutting and pasting entire articles written by someone else is an abridgment of intellectual property rights, even if you acknowledge the source. There’s no reason Fred can’t choose the key paragraph and quote it here as fair use, together with a link so we can read the rest on the creator’s site if we choose.
Personally, I don’t see why moderators insist that topics are sacrosanct.
Some, those that don’t draw responses for several days, are apparently quite dull, and invite enhancement.
Fred:
If you can enhance on topic, enhance away. Secondly, just because here are no comments, does not mean a commentary is not read. Our Google Analytics have shown such.
I usually don’t post entire articles. Unless there seems (to me) to be a good reason to do so. Like if I have access to a site that is behind a paywall, and yet it seems important enuf for all to see. Certain media, btw, seem to provide ‘shareable links’ to subscribers. In effect, when I post these, it is with such links.
Caveat lector!
@Fred,
Content that is paywalled is paywalled because the person or organization that posted it expects to get paid by the people who access it. To re-post paywalled content outside the paywall beyond fair use without permission is stealing.
For content that is not paywalled, a paragraph or two followed by the link suffices to make your point. Even if you don’t post entire articles, multiple paragraphs that span multiple comment posts is excessive.
Brief citations are considered ‘fair use’.
Is posting news articles behind paywall on social media illegal even if you provide the original link?
@Fred,
“Brief citations are considered ‘fair use’.”
Yes. That’s what I’ve said here, repeatedly. Your lengthy, multi-post copy-and-pastes are not brief citations. Brief would be one or two paragraphs.
What Is Fair Use?
Alas, no more lengthy excerpts from me, it would seem.
(There will probably be some exceptions however.)
Fred:
If you are going fishing in the same pond for articles, someone may get irritated especially if the articles are recent news. I usually wait on many things for at least a week or longer. NDd had an agreement with Dan, so we are allowed to post his in entirety. I do not preface his articles. He has some of the best info on housing, economy, labor, etc. I like having him around as his posts are economic news and accurate.
Kip Sullivan allows me to post in entirety his articles on Single Payer. He sees us as a resource. I have access to Suzanne Gordon and Steve Early’s commentary also. I would add Maggie Mahar’s commentary and did the editing also. There are others too.
I have done requested, unpaid work for other places on topics, invited to a podcast on healthcare, been asked to post elsewhere too, asked to review one of Philip Longman’s books, etc. I think I know what works and does not. Back to the topic.
If you can add an interpretation of the article in the beginning, it is helpful as everyone knows you have knowledge on the topic. News about unions is helpful to them in getting the info out so the public knows of their efforts.
etc.
“I usually don’t post entire articles.”
Once you do post an entire article you put a control rod in the discussion. Some see an entire article, so see the need to post competing articles — some others see the beginning of the article competition and immediately drop out. It’s doubly decade to discussion.
Denis:
I am doing my best for now. Slowly getting control. I do not like long c&ps in the comments section either. Fred is wrong in doing so.
Thanks for the compliment. I often wonder to what extent readers are able to follow the shareable links I post. Evidently they can’t, usually. Apparently that’s as it should be.
No doubt I will continue to put up shareable links, as a way of citing sources.
@Fred,
I usually have links in my posts and comments. As I posted previously, I prefer arguments from evidence over arguments from authority, so I like to include links to the evidence. You usually do the same, I’ve noticed. I hope you continue to include the links to your sources.
Links that appear in articles would be the responsibility of the article’s author, no doubt, and to remove them would be a disservice.
In my other life I am a medical librarian. As such I am permitted to send published literature to medical libraries all over, freely (for ‘research purposes’), and I am allowed to receive such articles from other libraries.
There are interesting/peculiar restrictions on this, but very few librarians pay any attention to them.
Interlibrary Loan
Dobbs
I feel bad for not standing up for you. But it is hopeless. “The Revolution has no need for philosophers.” [quote from some French judge sentencing Lavoisier to the guillotine. I hope he has no copyright on it.]
Meanwhile I realized that I could read your comments or not. No one was forcing me. And, not having access to (through?) Times paywall, I learned things from your comments I otherwise would not have. I would think that the Times would think of that as “advertising” and not “theft.” I had no idea thousands of people were coming to AB to get around the Times paywall.
But don’t quote me on that.
I choose to believe that the Times realizes it’s useful to have dedicated readers (& subscribers) publicizing the stories that appear in the Gray Lady.
Well the more intensive cutting-and-pasting activity here always struck me as more of a hobby than a concerted assault on IP. But reasonable limits make sense. I stick to my own delusions, which feel more satisfying.
The trouble with setting yourself up to be the judge in your own case is that it sets you on a slippery slope to raving paranoia. This seems to be a scientific fact.
Fortunately for the stability of our civilization most people by the time they are grown up have enough experience with would-be dictators that they know better than to argue with them.
I personally think that one of our regulars’ comments are too long, but then i realized i didn’t need to read all of them. As a result I have learned a thing or two from time to time.
I don’t much like to be dogged by trolls myself. Took me too long to learn to just ignore them. On the other hand I hate to be called names because I disagree with someone about a subject he doesn’t even know he is talking about.
Of course he would say the same about me. Has, in fact. One needs to listen to dictators and other politicians to understand the value of pious reasons to justify controlling the dialog.