Buy an Electric Vehicle or a Hybrid Electric Vehicle?
Another site has a long article on Toyota of it not going whole hog into electric vehicles in the beginning. Meanwhile domestic US automotive companies are proving out the technology with their models. Beyond mentioning the article, I will not delve into its content. That is other than saying it exists and may be a good read.
To me, staying with Hybrids is a sound decision by Toyota. Wait till the technology is proven with EVs before jumping into it in manufacturing. Quite a few $billions are being spent by the big three to prove the technology and whether it is manufacturing equitable or not. Which is one reason to wait . . . plant manufacturing change-over is not cheap. One can witness such being experienced in model year changes at the big three.
Rather than prove it out with passenger vehicles. Ford and GM are pouring their funds into pickups. Vehicles which people desire and never really use to haul bales of hay, a load of sand, or few dozen bags of Portland in the cargo bed neatly covered with a protective material. And citizens are proud to drive the biggest dinosaur possible on the roads today. None of which is as environmentally friendly as it could be or efficient as possible. It is a show piece and a “my vehicle is bigger and faster than your vehicle taunt.”
This does not mean Toyota is not doing its due diligence in exploring the technology of EVs. It is letting domestic US automakers prove the manufacturing technology product out and will implement their findings in manufacturing. Then it will add its own version which will probably be more efficient in manufacturing, driving, and practical.
Toyota’s direction in Europe. A form of which will come to America. Note the approach, the transition, energy utilization, and planned production. It has a plan and is pursuing different paths to reach its goals.
Toyota’s new BEVs and FCEVs reinforce multi-pathway approach, Toyota Europe Newsroom
Whereas the US is going with the 100% electric vehicle and is having issues right from the start in mass production. EVs still are relatively new technology. Proclamations of Battery powered EVs becoming the dominant vehicle are still along way off. My own travels into various countries reveal the electrical infrastructure does not exist to support Battery EVs in a manner US automakers desire. Even the US is behind in establishing the infrastructure.
It is predicted, no matter how much progress US automakers achieve with battery powered EV/cars they would still account for only 30% of global market share at most. The infrastructure does not exist to support that many EVs. Cox Automotive’s Stephanie Valdez Streaty . . . “consumers are wanting a similar experience they have had with a combustion engine car. And the industry is not there yet. Price is still the top barrier for most consumers.” Finally, the batteries developed for today’s battery powered EV/cars and pickups are not quite there yet. They are adding hundreds of pounds to cars and pickup trucks.
High EV pricing, less performance, battery issues, and few charging stations are problematic. So, what should the big three be doing rather than going all electric / EVs in their showrooms?
Take a step backwards. Stubbornly high electric car prices and worries about public charging are pushing some car shoppers away from EVs to hybrids. This includes renters and urbanites who can’t charge a battery-powered car at home.
Hybrids can deliver savings at the pump today with no need to plug in for hours or plan trips around charging stops. Indeed, hybrids are self-charging. However, their batteries are much smaller and cost a lot less than the batteries in fully electric vehicles. There are downsides to hybrids but they are less than all electric. How to Choose & Charge a Leisure Battery guide here.
One last point and I am done. With the introduction of Hybrid EVs in Japan 20 to 30 years ago, Japan is the only country in the developed world that has reduced CO2 emissions by 23%.
Toyota’s new BEVs and FCEVs reinforce multi-pathway approach
Best self-charging hybrid cars of 2024 | CAR Magazine
“It’s my job to make decisions and take responsibility” What Akio Toyoda told 200 leaders (toyotatimes.jp)
“Hybrid Cars Enjoy a Renaissance as All-Electric Sales Slow,” DNyuz
Bill
thanks for this.
reinforces the notion that the rush to full electric vehicles is ill considered, especially without questioning the “my vehicle is bigger than you vehicle” mindset. a smaller cheaper, slower, shorter range EV or hybrid, or even gas, car for local trips, saving the freeway cruiser for longer trips would make more sense. it’s not only the technology, it’s the other environmental impact, not to mention the insanity that we can stop global warming at no cost or inconvenience to ourselves.
The industry should have transitioned to plug in hybrids before going full EV. Enough to commute to work on a charge and gas for backup and longer trips. Many power plants shutdown at night because demand is insufficient. The cost to cycle a power plant can be as high as $40,000; wasted energy! This cost is added to electricity rates. Plug in hybrids would add demand at night keeping the plants on line and save this cost.
MarkG:
From what I am understanding there is no need to have a plugin Hybrid. They charge by themselves.
Bill, they recharge from the gasoline engine. Two points: a car’s gasoline engine is far more polluting than the average power plant. And depending on the mpge, the cost to use gasoline over charging from the grid can be 2-3 times more expensive.
Mark:
From what I read, hybrids do no attach to the grid. Show me some documentation.
Bill, google plug in hybrid, or PHEV. They have smaller batteries with a typical range of 20-40 miles and a gasoline engine for longer range.
Mark:
I guess if one never left the town limits, small town at that, 20-40 miles might be practical. The batteries never reach the same capacity after a while either. Kind of defeats the purpose and you are back to using the polluting gasoline engine which you despise.
@Bill,
The range of battery operation isn’t defined solely by point-of-source charging in most hybrids. For most hybrids, there’s a mechanism to charge the battery *while the ICE is running.* That 20-40 miles is the range of exclusive electric power. If you run for 20 miles on electricity, for example, then run for 100 miles on gas, you’ll have 20-40 miles again if you need electric.
Hybrid charging video
Joel:
I know of this point His preference is not to use gasoline at all or very little. I agree with your point. I believe I also pointed this (your point) out to Mark.
Range anxiety is a real thing in rural areas. I normally drive 225 miles non stop each way at least two or three times a month. And then I may need another 100-150 miles to do what I went to do in the first place. A hybrid will do that just fine, in fact our Prius could do a round trip without fill up stop. So far as I know there are only 3 or 4 charging stations on my route, and none at all for the last 100+ miles. Not comforting. Gas is just only slightly more available, but a full tank will go at least 400 miles or more, so no need to stop normally.
If I lived in a metro/urban area, an EV would probably cover most driving easily, but I don’t. Whether I could/would pay the extra cost for the car and charging at home, is something else. For the cost of the car and solar and batteries to charge it cleanly, I can remodel my bath to make it accessible which is far more valuable to me right now.
If I live long enough to need another car, it may be a plug in hybrid, something that would charge off a regular outlet. Or I could spend another thousand to put in wiring for a level two charger. I may never need another car at all. Much as I would like to own an EV, I doubt that it will happen, certainly not anytime soon.
so keep the freeway cruiser for long trips, and get a cheap electric for short trips.
And then there are millions of people like me who don’t have a garage and lack any ability to charge a vehicle at home. My condo association would not appreciate a 200 foot extension cord running through our courtyard landscaping.
We are looking seriously at a hybrid for our next (maybe last) auto purchase. The Honda Accord and Hyundai Elantra are showing promise.
Jim:
Perhaps Toyota also. They have a longer history with Hybrids than the others. The quality is probably similar.
Same arguments were made when we transitioned from horse to car. It may take a decade or more but the price of ev’s will fall to the same or less than a gasoline car and the infrastructure will be built to support the ever growing number of electric vehicles.
EYup, that’s how I read it. Not sure there were so many neigh-sayers (!) but yeah, falls somewhere in there with the introduction of the outhouse
Didn’t have to be this way. We were building electric cars over a 100 years ago … that didn’t stampede the horses
I can afford multiple cars. I have an old Leaf with a 60 to 70 mile range which I use around town. If I want to go farther than its out and back range, I take the hybrid. Since the bulk of my driving is in town, I see little reason to upgrade.
good for you. but i think you can get a cheaper electric than a Leaf if you don’t need the power or range.
cheap is important.
may have to pick it up in china and drive it home.
I inherited the Leaf from my father. I don’t think it comes much cheaper – certainly not than what they offered me for it as a trade-in.
arne
i said cheaper electric, not cheaper Leaf.
and yes, that means less power and range…but enough for all practical purposes.
We have sin taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, but not on vehicle weight.
Shouldn’t one consider US suburbanization with its huge base of single family homes with electrical connections and parking facilities part of the nation’s charging infrastructure.
Kaleberg:
What should we be considering?
For really low mileage trips Neighborhood Electric Vehicles would make sense. Our mayor had one in the ’00s. Of course, that does require the ability to maintain two cars.
I do agree with the plug-in enthusiasts since there are enough households for whom maintaining two vehicles is not a good choice. It seems a common sense progression.
i live at the bottom end of the socio-economic scale. pretty sure i could maintain two cars if i drove the same total miles. biggest problem is registration costs and insurance companies who believe you can drive two cars at the same time.
and pretty sure that even detroit could build a low maintenance, last forever, small cheap slow short range electric, and maybe even a fast long range highway crusiser that never had to deal with stop start city traffic… or short trips on cold engine.
my 1996 ford pickup is pretty good except for the platic parts and and multi purpose switches. a 2006 dodge grand caravan i borrowed for a while was a nightmare of needless enhancements guaranteed to go wrong and be expensive to fix including suicide “power” windows and 300 dollar keys.
we have only ourselves to blame.