The Speaker of the House Battle
It amazes me how far some people, errrrr politicians will extend themselves for opportunity, power, influence in Congress. Maybe I should not be calling them people? Maybe that is not amazing? Most of start off with their bad manners and aggressions, then do not have to live with and by their own decisions, and expect people to forgive and forget. They are definitely not like us. I wish the charade would end.
Rep. Tom Cole Nominates Jim Jordan as Speaker of the House, The Gateway Pundit, Jim Hᴏft
Unlike any other Speaker, Jim Jordan has had the audacity to talk about the real drivers of debt, such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Cole mentions, Jordan wants to create a bipartisan debt commission to tackle these issues. A move Republican Representative Tom Cole describes him as being courageous.
As we all know, Social Security is fully funded for an approximate ten years. More than likely the Baby Boomers will have died out and their numbers will be far less than what they are today. There is no piggy bank full of dollar bills. Justs debit and credits plus a small amount of interest on the SS funds taken in by the government. Cole adds . . .
“He doesn’t deceive, doesn’t assemble, and simply tells you straight up. This is what I believe.”
Maybe Tom Cole has forgotten 2020 when Jim Jordan was practicing deception about a lost election?
“In the months leading up to and following the 2020 presidential election, potential House speaker and Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan prolifically pushed false stolen election rhetoric.
After then-President Donald Trump lost the election to Joe Biden, Jordan urged Trump not to concede, spread conspiracy theories, supported lawsuits attempting to disqualify the legitimate results and discussed plans to object to the 2020 election results on January 6, 2021.”
Jim was pretty straight up with his broadcasting his misconceptions. And then his dialogue changed.
After urging people to “get to the bottom of what actually happened on election day, Jim’s dialogue changed.
May 2021, “I have never said this election was stolen, all I’ve said is, ‘Let’s check it out.’”
The nation has been checking the 2020 election for three years now. Dozens of people are being tried because people like Jim Jordan and trump convinced them there was a fraudulent election. There wasn’t.
What Tom Cole believes is opportunism, and an opportunity to extend his influence with Jim Jordan if Jim becomes the House Speaker. “Two weeks ago, Cole defended former Speaker Kevin McCarthy against an effort to vacate the chair, warning that such a move would plunge Congress into chaos and the country into uncertainty. “
A man for all seasons, adaptable to anything, and feet of clay.
In the mean-time, the government is effectively shut-down
Was that the plan? They couldn’t get their shut-down through legitimate process so … is this it, a back-door shut-down?
I want to know how much Putin is paying them …
I want to know how much Putin is paying them …
[ This is a scurrilous comment. Returning to the days of Joseph McCarthy should be impossible, but evidently isn’t. Paul Krugman uses a threatening insult right from McCarthy; “the enemy within.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/opinion/columnists/us-power-republican-party.html
October 16, 2023
The Strange Decline of the Pax Americana
By Paul Krugman
Yes, the Pax Americana is in decline. But the problem isn’t lack of toughness at the top. It’s the enemy within.
@ltr,
Purely on a semantics basis, then Paul is not that far off. When governments moved from hereditary aristocracies to republican bureaucracies, then government remained an elitist architecture with little responsiveness to the scrutiny of the general public because all substantial power remained held among small groups of elites. Lord Acton’s “power corrupts” letter to Bishop Creighton is as true today as it was in 1887. As a corollary to Acton’s indictment then one might suppose that all empires destroy themselves from within. Even those that were overrun by invasion had first became arrogant and careless.
…which should not be construed to mean that I am fond of effete pseudointellectual snobs, but only that I am more fond of effete pseudointellectual snobs than I fond of paranoid megalomaniacs such as old Senator Joseph R. McCarthy.
Unlike any other Speaker, Jim Jordan has had the audacity to talk about the real drivers of debt, such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
(But not willing to remind us about the Deficit, which has much to do with slashing tax revenue without worrying in the least about increasing the deficit.)
@Fred,
Also, what almost no one ever talks about is the role of US debt obligations in our financialized economy as safe assets for the FIRE sector as well as in currency exchange rate gambits with our surplus trading partners to maintain their system of lowering global labor wages and taking jobs at the expense of US workers while simultaneously maintaining the global arbitrage systems for resources, regulatory barriers, and wages. US billionaires feed their wealth on the back of US twin deficits (i.e., fiscal and trade) regardless of their political allegiances. In some cases there may even be ideological differences, but there are always individual portfolio differences such as big oil or big banks although many billionaires spread their risks over both financial equities and political inequities.
Treasury Report Shows $1.7 Trillion Deficit
NY Times – Oct 20 – just in
The widening gap between what the government spends and what it earns comes as Congress continues to spar over the proper levels of federal spending.
With enough fiscal hand-waving, it may be believed that ‘Deficits Don’t Matter’, except that they do, to the extent that may be seen to represent the gap between guv’mint revenue & expenditures, and that slashing wealthy/corp taxes always has a lot to do with that gap. The GOP of course would have us believe that the easy way around that is to slash spending accordingly.
Fred:
The easier part is too print more money which the US has the ability to do as a sovereign nation whose #dollars other nations want to hold for global transactions.
Some history buffs are troubled by hyper-inflation, to this day.
Hyperinflation in Venezuela
Hyperinflation in Germany (post WW1)
@Fred,
Social Security is a fictional driver of debt. In reality, it has nothing to do with either the deficit or the national debt, as it is funded separately from the rest of the budget.
I am aware that technically Soc Sec is funded outside the Federal budget. While that’s important, excessive guv’mint borrowing drives up the cost of all borrowing. We learned that in MA when the infamous Big Dig (which eventually cost about $15B) while substantially funded by the US budget, required a LOT of borrowing by the Commonwealth, and basically stopped (or drastically slowed-down) all other municipal contruction for many years. Meanwhile our bridges & dams were collapsing.
I no longer mention any Soc Sec connections to the Deficit these days, because most insist there is none. But having a $2T gap between revenue and expenditure seems excessive, IMO. Even if $1T was not. Unfortunately, the only solutions offered are to print more money, or mint trillion-dollar coins that contain maybe $1K worth of platinum.
I put in another reply that ended up at the bottom of this thread, that is perhaps vaguely related. The guv’mint does borrow FROM the Soc Sec Trust Fund money not needed for current benefits, and must repay it with interest. I have to assume that repayment money is borrowed on the open market, at going rates. Which could be expensive, and get more so soon enuf.
Also, since Mrs Fred & I are Soc Sec recipients, we’d like to keep receiving those monthly checks. So, shut down the Dept of Commerce maybe?
That’s pretty weak tea, lt. Got something that addresses the meat of the matter: that while all these monkey house antics are going on the government is effectively shut down?
Perhaps the most interesting factoid about House Speaker-wannabee Jim Jordan, ‘an American politician currently serving in his ninth term in the U.S. House of Representatives’ (Wikipedia) is that he has never had a bill passed in Congress.
Wikipedia: As of 2023, Jordan, who has served in the House of Representatives for over 16 years, has never sponsored a bill that later became law.
OK. not calling them ‘people’ is really sticking it to them, high school style.
And the D senator from NJ is the only one shown to be taking money lately.
Jordan has co sponsored plenty of bills that have passed. This place used to have cogent discussions. Used to.
@doug,
Well recently HR1096 which Jordan sponsored was passed and enacted. He also sponsored a couple of House Joint Resolutions that were passed and vetoed. More important was the substance of the bills that he sponsored.
https://www.billtrack50.com/legislatordetail/15856
US Representative
Jim Jordan
(R) – United States
Ohio District 4
In Office – Started: 01/03/2007
SPONSORED BILLS
@doug,
Politics in the US is part clown act and part Kabuki Theater and with a few exceptions it always has been. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both hated the US Congress, but neither one had a better idea for governing. The US Constitution and private campaign financing insure that politicians are puppets for economic elites. The architecture of our system of education insure that citizens are well trained obedient followers where they are needed in the military and the labor force as well as docile pet sycophants for both celebrities and the wealthy and powerful. During harsh times such as the Great Depression and world wars, then our government functions well enough to ensure the survival of this governing arrangement with elites at the top and the rest of us underfoot.
Unfortunately, the general populace is so poorly informed in the areas of history, political science, economics, psychology, and foreign affairs, that our government of the people, by the elites, for the elites is actually the best that we can do. This really is a dangerous world and we really do have enemies, lots of them. Whether our former bad choices put us in this predicament or not, we are here now and we had better keep paying attention. The present fight on the right for power presents a risk that could end the complacency that makes their own existence possible. Well, it serves them right, so to speak.
If you believe this is a cynical POV, then you have a gift for understatement, but if you believe this is unrealistic, then you are a fool.
@Fred,
Nice job on your follow up. Thanks. BTW, HB1096 that I mentioned above was “AN ACT To require the Secretary of the Treasury to mint coins in commemoration of the 250th Anniversary of the United States Marine Corps, and to support programs at the Marine Corps Heritage Center.” I imagine he was just a co-sponsor and the substance was both safe and trivial.
NY Times – a half hour ago – Gonna Do Another Vote …
I agree with Ten Bears. There is more than just incompetence and inability to govern in this speakership vacuum. It serves someone’s purpose. Whose and how knowingly the majority party participates is not something I can know, but who benefits from no bills going through the House?
@JaneE,
Like any junkies, political power junkies work hard to get that next fix, but any sane understanding of behavior does not treat such compulsive actions as beneficial to anyone. In a dystopian world then sociopaths are free to follow their impulses without any regard for cost and benefit.
Gym Jordan is a child molester by association.
There was a House vote a while back on whether or not having a vacant Speaker’s position was what was desired. Democrats in the House unanimously desired that to happen. I am not suggesting they had any obligation to support McCarthy, but reading thoughts that there may be sort of nefarious reasons – including allegiance to Putin – for this is quite interesting when about 96% of the votes needed to get to this point were from Democrats.
@Eric377,
I could not agree with you more – which oddly saddens me :<)
Dems could not be persuaded to vote for McCarthy or for Jordan, who disparage them at every turn. So, not too surprising.
They also could not be persuaded to vote ‘present’ which would have reduced the majority requirement to what the GOP was able to come up with, to elect McCarthy or later McCarthy. So, it would have been better to let McCarthy back in?
That would have been some pretty good strategic voting on the part of the Dems.
You really want to blame the Dems for all the troubles the GOP is experiencing?
Probably should just stick to blaming Trump.
NY Times – just in
Top Democrats are holding a news conference to denounce Jordan’s candidacy. “Jim Jordan is a clear and present danger to our democracy,” says Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York, referring to how Jordan attempted to overturn the 2020 election on behalf of former President Trump. …
Err… to elect McCarthy or later Jordan.
Mostly yes. GOP followed trump on January 6. Most still have not owned up to what they did or were silent about letting it happen. Jordan played an active part. Now, we are supposed to acquiesce and follow their lead in selecting someone who actively supported the overthrow of a nation?
Former Speaker McCarthy led off the speechifying for Jordan this am in the House, by pointing out that Jim Jordan had been very involved in some important GOP bills that had been instrumental in denying something to somebody.
@Eric,
Not sure what your point is. The minority party is under no political obligation to support the administrative decisions of the majority. Thus has it ever been. This has nothing to do with Putin. No conspiracy theories required.
How the Interim Speaker Patrick McHenry Could Actually Govern
NY Times – Oct 18
Most approve of bipartisan majority running House: Survey
The Hill – October 15
House Dems leader says ‘informal’ talks underway on bipartisan solution to GOP speaker chaos
Spectrum News – NY1 – October 15
There’s still a pragmatic, bipartisan solution for speaker
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette editorial – Oct 20
(one not involving Dems, which makes it ‘pragmatic’ at least)
(Looks like no Dems have been involved in the devising of thus plan, so it is Not Tainted.)
Representative Jim Jordan will try again for House gavel, but Republicans won’t back the hardline Trump ally
Boston Globe – Oct 20
(AP) — Despite deepening opposition, Rep. Jim Jordan is expected to try a third vote to become House speaker, even as his Republican colleagues are explicitly warning the hard-edged ally of Donald Trump that no more threats or promises can win over their support.
The House is scheduled to convene Friday but Republicans have no realistic or workable plan to unite the fractured GOP majority, elect a new speaker and return to the work of Congress that has been languishing since hardliners ousted Kevin McCarthy at the start of the month. Jordan has scheduled an early morning press conference ahead of the session. …
Mainstream Republicans, ‘Squishes’ No More, Dig In Against Jordan
NY Times – Oct 19
NY Times – Oct 19
(An allusion to the caning of Charles Sumner in the House of Reps in 1856.)
The Caning of Chatles Sumner
The caning of Charles Sumner, or the Brooks–Sumner Affair, occurred on May 22, 1856, in the United States Senate chamber, when Representative Preston Brooks, a pro-slavery Democrat from South Carolina, used a walking cane to attack Senator Charles Sumner, an abolitionist Republican from Massachusetts. … – Wikipedia
In the latest sign of House chaos, the temporary speaker is threatening to quit
NBC News – Oct 19
In a closed-door meeting Thursday, Rep. Patrick McHenry, R-N.C., told GOP colleagues he might resign as speaker pro tempore if Republicans push him to try to move legislation on the floor without an explicit vote to expand his powers, according to multiple lawmakers in the room. …
The number of votes for Jordan keeps going down.
Jordan falls short once again, loses third vote for House speaker
Boston Globe – just in
Representative Jim Jordan failed once again in a third vote for speaker on Friday, after he vowed in a morning press conference that he would “fight the good fight” despite opposition from his Republican colleagues.
In Friday’s vote, 25 Republican lawmakers declined to back him. …
Who’s next?
Jordan Loses Secret Ballot to Remain GOP Nominee for Speaker
NY Times – just in
The House plunged further into chaos after Republicans voted to drop Representative Jim Jordan as their nominee for the speakership.
Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio lost an internal vote to continue as his party’s nominee for speaker on Friday, plunging the House into further uncertainty and sending Republicans searching for a new leader.
According to USA Today…
The likely next choices
Tom Emmer
House Majority Whip Tom Emmer, R-Minn., began making calls to run for speaker after Jordan’s exit from the race, according to a source familiar.
As whip, Emmer is the No. 3 ranking House Republican. Ousted former speaker Rep. Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., endorsed the Minnesota Republican for the speakership in a huge boost for Emmer’s candidacy. McCarthy still commands the respect of the vast majority of the House Republican conference. …
Kevin Hern
Rep. Kevin Hern, R-Okla., was one of the first candidates who jumped into the speaker’s race, immediately announcing his candidacy to reporters after House Republicans dropped Jordan as their nominee.
“We need a different type of leader who has a proven track record of success, which is why I’m running for Speaker of the House,” Hern said in a statement. …
Austin Scott
Rep. Austin Scott, R-Ga., was a little-known lawmaker until earlier this month when he launched a surprise challenge to Jordan’s speakership bid as a protest candidate against the conservative firebrand.
Scott ran against Jordan in an internal vote within the House Republican conference to select a nominee. Scott lost the nomination by a vote of 124-81. The Georgia Republican rallied behind Jordan after his loss but Jordan’s exit, Scott immediately jumped back in the race. …
Byron Donalds
Rep. Byron Donalds, R-Fla., a member of the ultraconservative House Freedom Caucus, is running for speaker according to a spokesperson from his office.
Donalds has played a large role in key negotiations between moderate and ultraconservative GOP lawmakers. During Jordan’s failed speaker elections, some GOP holdouts voted for Donalds as a protest candidate. …
(There are 4 others on the USA Today list.)
Tom Emmer did NOT claim that Trump won the 2020 election, so the Trump people are already out to deny him the Speaker’s post.
Tom Emmer Didn’t Help Trump Steal the 2020 Election. So It’s Payback Time.
Mother Jones – Oct 21
NY Times – Oct 21
Yes, the federal government borrows Social Security funds
That is, the US guv’mint borrows FROM Soc Sec funds as necessary, but is required to repay it with interest. What they are borrowing is money not required to pay current benefits.
I have to assume that this borrowing, the cost of it, is affected by the cost of borrowing generally.
But in general, the argument about cutting the deficit, however impractical, seems to be confined to whether Defense or Social spending can be cut (but not both!), and the politics of making such a decision – without touching Soc Sec, a third-rail kind of thing – especially when there’s a war on, and then another war on… When is there not a war on these days?
You should bring up, probably that what happened in Venezuela & Weimar Germany is really, really, rare – and certainly can’t happen here in the Good Ol USA.