Windsor, VA
Recently, in Windsor, Virginia, United States of America, a local police officer, Police Officer Gutierrez, pulled over Army Second Lieutenant Nazario; ostensibly for the lack of displayed license plate. As it was to turn out, a temporary plate was on display in the vehicle’s rear window. When Lt. Nazario slowly proceeded to a well lighted area in front of a convenience store, pulled over, and stopped, Police Officer Gutierrez, and a second, back up, officer approached the Lt.’s vehicle with guns drawn and pointed at Lt. Nazario while giving somewhat conflicting commands. Lt. Nazario is heard to say that he is afraid to get out of the car.
Was it reasonable force for the two police officers to draw to their weapons for a traffic stop after it was evident that there was no reason to make the stop in the first place? In the video, Police Officer Gutierrez is heard to say, “You received an order, obey it.” Do police have a god-given right to be obeyed? What is so suspicious about an army officer in fatigues near Hampton Roads, VA, (an area as aswarm with military installations and personnel as any in the world)? Why did the police officers demand that Lt. Nazario get out of his vehicle? Why not start with conversation? What right did the officers have to demand that the Second Lt. Nazario lie face down on the pavement? What compelled them to do so? Shouldn’t the police be required to produce proof of suspicious behavior before taking such drastic measures?
Why did this traffic stop in Windsor, VA, in particular, and so many others, in general, go down this way? First, it seems to be all too routine for police in small towns, in suburbia, to be on the prowl for traffic violations? In Ferguson, MO, and in a lot of other small towns, traffic tickets were/are a major source of revenue, a way to fund police departments. This leads to too many traffic stops. Were Police Officers in Windsor given a traffic ticket quota to meet? In this case, once the officers saw the temporary plates in the rear window, they should backed off. With today’s technology, most traffic violations could be better handled through state DMVs.
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Where to begin? Beginning with the Windsor Police Officers, why did the officers behave in the manner they did? How much training did they have? What were their psychological profiles? Were their personalities suited for police work? For even traffic wardens? Were they fearful for their lives? Did Lt. Nazario’s race play a role; were the two police officers particularly afraid of young black men?
Later, Police Officer Gutierrez, Windsor, VA, intimated that he suspected that the driver was of a minority because of the tinted windows. Was now former Officer Gutierrez on the prowl for vehicular violations by minority drivers when he pulled Army Second Lieutenant Nazario over for a suspected vehicular violation? There is no mention of Second Lt. Nazario having committed a driving error, having done anything to warrant the attention. Was Officer Gutierrez drawn to police work by an authoritarian streak? Did rural Virginia culture play a role? What role did America’s gun culture play?
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Lt. Nazario told the two police officers that he was afraid to get out of his vehicle. Who wouldn’t be; especially, if you were a young black man in rural Virginia? Nation wide, the police killing of young black men after a traffic stop is an all too common occurrence. How can it be that a Army Second Lt. can be treated this way in 2021? Turns out, Lt. Nazario had a concealed weapon in his vehicle for which he had a license. Why did Lt. Nazario feel it necessary to carry a gun? Should everyone be carrying a weapon at all times and places, as has been suggested by the NRA?
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What is the role of the town of Windsor, VA? Windsor, VA put Officer Gutierrez on the street. In doing so, they became responsible for his actions. Minneapolis’s $27million dollar settlement with George Floyd’s family was testament to that responsibility. How well did Windsor screen and train its police? How well do they pay their police. Were Officer Gutierrez authoritarian tendencies known to his supervisors? Did they approve of such behavior?
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Are police afraid for their lives with each traffic stop? Or only those involving young men of color? Does the media’s coverage of the news convey a false narrative that young men of color are prone to violence and likely to be armed? Did the media’s portrayal get into the heads of police everywhere? What role did the criminal behavior of some young men of color play? How did this narrative come to so permeate our society? Are all black and brown people victims of this narrative?
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What role did politics and the courts play in us getting to this intolerable juncture? Looking back, the politics of law and order was almost certainly a factor. So were Supreme Court decisions such as Graham v. Connor in re reasonable force (there must be a Scalia in here someplace). Since the nation’s beginnings, race has played a role in her politics, in her courts, in her law enforcement. What role Trump’s benediction?
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These are some of the factors involved, some of the questions that need answers, in the Windsor incident. There are no doubt others. Many of the answers to these questions will need addressing.
Who has the power?
First, a nitpicky comment. The proper form of address for an Army second lieutenant is 2LT, so it should be 2LT Nazario. It’s also weird that the police officer did not appear to recognize Nazario’s 2LT bar on his uniform and somehow thought Nazario was an enlisted specialist. I mean, that part of Virginia is swarming with military, so you’d think anyone in law enforcement would be able to distinguish a 2LT’s bar from a specialist’s insignia.
We’ve always been told that it takes a special kind of person with above average bravery to be a police officer. But in the real world we seem to see a lot of cops whom I would describe as above average cowards. The reason we are supposed to trust the police is their willingness to put the good of society and innocent civilians above their own lives. What we see all too often are scared and cowardly cops whose first impulse is to minimize any potential risk to their own lives without any regard to the risks those actions might impose on innocent civilians. Is this because a life of constant threats turns formerly brave people into ultra-cautious cowards? Or is it because police are drawn from a peculiar demographic that fantasizes about the heroes they see on cop action dramas like NCIS, FBI, 911, etc.?
Your summary fails to mention that Nazario drove for a mile to find a place that was lighted to stop. The police considered that eluding – or at least they said they did.
If Nazario was profiled, it was for the tinted windows rather than for his race. You could not see him until the window was down.
You ask “why did the officers behave in the manner they did?” My understanding is that police are trained exert control. They are not trained to deal with someone whose failure to “comply” is totally rational.
Arne,
2LT Nazario drove at a slow speed, which is allowed. Driving at a slow speed is not anyone’s definition of “eluding.” That’s just an after-the-fact rationalization. Any qualified cop should know the difference between eluding and driving at a slow speed to a well lit public place. That simply doesn’t pass the smell test.
One of the problems is that police are trained to exert control, which is another way of saying that police are trained to escalate almost any situation. They get their blood pumping and adrenalin rushing and then wonder why things go badly. A few days ago there was a state trooper that pulled someone over for minor infraction. The police chased him to his house where he barricaded himself inside. Instead of just waiting the guy out or arresting him at their convenience (where was the guy gonna go???), they decided to exert control by bringing in some of that expensive cop SWAT equipment. So an armored vehicle crashed into the house followed by a cop assault. It all ended badly. Not only was the perpetrator killed for a minor crime, but so was the state trooper who initially stopped him and somehow thought he needed to join the assault on the house. Stupid is as stupid does.
well, since everyone has a take (some of which i agree with) here is miine
cops come from, or are indoctrinated in, or have a job that ultimately requires
a mindset with near psychotic need for instant obedience. unrestrained by controls on their behavior, collectively they become a mob or a gang or a many-headed evil tyrant or angry god.
even white folk “get the talk”: when stopped by a cop, be polite, move slow with your hands in sight, do what you are told, remember to say “sir.”
and of course you can always be stopped by a cop who has gone over the edge and none of this will help you.
or you can be arrested quite calmly…and then meet with a judge who has the same problem.
and a country full of people who believe that this sort of law’n order is “the only thing” that keeps them safe.
i am reasonably sure this happens to cops all over the world and is not especially a racist thing… though it is more likely to happen to “minorities”, and more likely for the minorities to show enough hints of “disrespect” to get themselves killed.
Great talk, guys, which is also to say that we got a big problem that will not be readily solved.
“2LT Nazario drove at a slow speed, which is allowed.”
Here is a story which says the opposite. Do you have a citation that it is allowed?
https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/opinion/ct-ptb-davich-delrea-good-arrest-st-0410-20150409-column.html
Note: The video linked in the OP is not the stop that is being discussed here.
“what could they do?” well, shoot the tires out, of course. sorry about that windshield, ma’am…ma’am?…ma’am?!
or they could do just what the cop here did at first….almost at first… recognize that someone might do this for a good reason. follow them… to a well lighted area…. to the hospital… to their house..
and then if the excuse is good, write the ticket and wish them a good day… or give them the first aid they need… or….
if the excuse is bad, write them another ticket. you probably wouldn’t have to make the kids in the car lie face down on the pavement with their hands cuffed behind their backs.
you know, “what else could they do?” is a sign of mental deficiency
There was a link to a good synchronized video with three cameras posted in an earlier AB post, but I can not find it.
Not enough of a description for me to find.
Run,
I think the link I am thinking of is the CBS link I posted in the Daunte Wright thread, but it is a dead link now. It showed the body camera all during the pullover. It would show whether the officer was already peeved enough to pull his gun for being required to follow Nazario for two minutes to get to a lighted space. Unfortunately, that decision only needs to pass the smell test of the officer with the gun.
Arne:
I did find it in comments and you are correct, the link no longer works. While they may have dropped it, it is still somewhere else for sure. They ca not scour the whole internet.
arne and run
well, before the internet there was this:
please describe the video and what it means in words.
meanwhile, I think we have a kind of consensus here in the comments.
also meanwhile, an article (editorial? in the nyt?) apeared today saying that abut 85% of trumpists believe they are fighting to save the country from imminent destruction. since fox news and republian congressmenandwomen among others have been fomenting this fear for some time, they can feel proud of their success. only two reasons i can think of for them: they hope to ride the wave into permanent power. or they are from hell and enjoy the fear and pain they are causing.
or does that mean that I –even I –think i am fighting to save the country from imminent destruction?
Coberly,
The video I was looking for shows the officer’s camera from when he started following Nazario. Everything I find now has been edited down to after he gets out of the car, when he already has gun drawn. I would like to watch again to see how long the “chase” was and whether the accompanying audio gives a sense of the officer’s attitude.
The video I saw was a probably a news channel’s presentation of Nazario’s phone, and both of the officers’ cameras synced up to see all views at once.
The video that Ken linked to above is actually for a traffic stop from the previous month in which Nazario was pulled over in daylight for speeding and for the same issue with the temporary license. Nazario calmly made excuses and that officer calmly gave him a ticket.
Arne,
Thanks. There are some other videos out there of other events in copland, much more disturbing, and convincing. If I had it to do over again, I think I would start a crusade to reform cop world. But George Floyd seems to be rist time anyone has taken notice… and probably the first time I have formulated clearly to myself the causes….and the possibility of meaningful reform.
i amcruious, what did you see in the other video that you thought might change our perception. i understand that you wanted to see it again to be sure, but first impressions count.
Multiple google hits on what to do when being pulled over say turn on your flashers. I wondered if Nazario did that. Not sure the video would show. The officer called for backup. I wanted to see again why. The backup officer pulled a gun because the first did. Some of the stuff I have seen suggests having two officers with guns is more than twice as bad as one. But the first officer was approaching a driver who had pulled over into the light – why the first gun?
When I get into something, I probably over-analyze.
arne
over analyze is good.
if you have the time and are honest with yourself. which i think you are.
trouble is, from my point of view, is that in this case analysis might not get you very far, unless you still have doubts that pulling a gun is a bad idea.
in one of the videos i mentioned the cops thought a car was stolen so they made the woman driving and her kids (six years old) lie face down on the pavement with their hands cuffed behind their backs.. after Chauvin trial pointed out the lethal danger of this, but bad enough [way too bad] even without that. oh, did i mention they held them at gun point like this for two hours. of course with cops you are always at gun point. the car turned out not to be stolen. what’s wrong with this picture?
one picture is worth a thousand words.