Oh, Elon!
My wife drives a 21 year-old Pontiac Vibe (= Toyota Matrix). It could fail at any time so I told her that she could get cash for cars Campbelltown and get a new car instead. The question of what she’ll replace it with is on our minds. EV or hybrid? I personally know some Tesla owners who are happy with their choice, but I remain concerned about range and charging stations. Thanks, Elon, for warning me off EVs!
“The day before Elon Musk fired virtually all of Tesla’s electric-vehicle charging division last month, they had high hopes as charging chief Rebecca Tinucci went to meet with Musk about the network’s future, four former charging-network staffers told Reuters.
“After Tinucci had cut between 15% and 20% of staffers two weeks earlier, part of much wider layoffs, they believed Musk would affirm plans for a massive charging-network expansion.
“The meeting could not have gone worse. Musk, the employees said, was not pleased with Tinucci’s presentation and wanted more layoffs. When she balked, saying deeper cuts would undermine charging-business fundamentals, he responded by firing her and her entire 500-member team.”
Tesla fires 500-member charging station team
We’re looking at the hybrid version of the Ford Maverick. It gets 40+ mpg and uses existing infrastructure (no charging station build out). It’s lighter than EVs and requires no special tires. Less road damage than EVs.
Richard
I think you are probably right.
But I surprised myself by falling off the EV bandwagon until the dust settles. I drive a 30 year old small Ford pickup. mileage arond town is terrible. not too bad on the road but i’ve had a lot better from small gas cars they don’t build anymore.
but i worry about the environmental consequences of big, fast, long range , long distance commuter, EV’s and the idea it encourages us to believe we can tech-fix our way out of climate change. there are smarter choices we could make and have a better life to boot. meanwhile I’m betting on that old Ford doing less harm to the climate than a new EV. no, I do not love the gas companies.
I drive a Ford Maverick hybrid. It consistently gets 36.5 mpg, not the 40 mpg I’d hoped for. However, I am still very pleased. The interior feels spacious the dash monitors, controls and large navigation screen are intuitive. I’ve recently pulled a small U-Haul trailer with no problems. Best of all, the sticker (including tax, title and license) was less than $30,000.00
It handles well and I feel safe driving it in heavy traffic because acceleration is good. Ford makes a good truck.
Must be doing something right for all the bad-mouthing they get
Most of which is 1) wrong and 2) Big Oil talking points
But hey! That’s what tv is for, right!? People to repeat what they hear
Ten Bears
Thank you for the laugh. I think I would go with the hybrid also. With Elon’s knee jerk reactions, there is a chance things could go wrong just to save his childish ego.
These are the kids you would meet in Grade or Grammer school whatever yours was called. The whiny-ass ones. EVs are the way to go, Elon Musk is a road hazard.
@Bill,
I think the longer term future of EVs is bright. I’ve been an early adopter for some technology (PCR, genomics) but until the range issue is normalized, I’ll stick with ICEs or hybrids.
Joel:
It is not the EV, it is Elon. Mentality of a 15-year-old. The EVs with lighter and more efficient, fast charge batteries is definitely the way to go. By the time they showup, I will not be driving anymore.
Exactly, which is why, in the meantime, an efficient conventional vehicle, maybe a hybrid, is the way to go.
jack:
Joel is looking to the future which is why he is considering a Tesla or whatever EV. I understand the thought pattern. Me? If I drive properly, I can pull up to 40 miles to the gallon out of my 2015 Passat with 68,000 miles on it. Why would I move to a different vehicle at my age? His vehicle is really old.
I’m already driving one. Yes, there is a range issue but, seriously, who drives more than hundred miles everyday? Yes, yes, yes, some people do, but it’s not something a bit of foresight can’t overcome. If I’m going more than sixty miles I take my charger with me, just in case ~ not unlike a phone or laptop ~ and the GPS informs me there are a thousand charge points within a hundred miles of my current location
I wasn’t joking, Bill, the majority of complaints are not only wrong but industry talking points: little lies told repeatedly enough to become a part of the narrative. Induced dyslexia
We have a hybrid fleet, but not any hybrid vehicles.
For us, what made the most sense was to add an old EV to our IC fleet. The EV is an early Leaf but it came with a new traction battery. It does all the around-town driving, is quick and maneuverable, and cost very little to buy because few people want a vehicle with only a 70-mile range.
Our IC vehicles are used for heavy hauling or out-of-town trips — the tasks they are best suited for.
The Leaf also provides us with long-term power for those times when the grid is down and the skies are opaque with smoke or clouds. It will run the critical parts of our house (refrigerator, lights, a few outlets for computers, internet router, and cell phone chargers) for over 2 weeks. It cost less than half as much as a battery system but has 40% more capacity, required no building/installation permits, and was delivered the same day.
One thing to bear in mind is the inefficiency of charging the battery. There’s not only the losses in the chemical process itself, but also the losses due to the charging and discharging circuitry, as well as resistance in the wires running from the meter box to the car. They are in no danger of overheating but are definitely warm to the touch. I have measured the round-trip loss between the energy going from the utility meter to the battery and the energy that is actually delivered, either to power the vehicle or to power our house, is 4 to 3. In other words, for every kilowatt-hour put into the battery only 750 watt-hours comes out.
This solution is not for everyone, but it works well for us.
Dee Tee
I think you are doing it right. if i could afford the taxes and insurance on a second car, that’s the way i’d do it. Seems to me the gov could work out a tax and insurance plan that would do more than the subsidies for overpriced (because of the subsidy?) EV’s that are not being put to their best use (around town) saving the gas cars for the highway where they are better suited.
as to your measure of efficiencies, i think you may be measuring the wrong things: there are inefficinecies in all energy transfers, but the comparison here is between the overall efficiency of the EV system versus that of the gas car system in money as well as environment.
Ah, yes, the need for a second car: there’s the rub.
dee tee
fine. thanks.
Jackd
for now, yes. but if anyone gets sensible and produces a low cost low performance ev for in town driving, and the tax folks and state insurance regulators get smart, it would be the best way to go. both for your own costs and the planet’s.
Coberly,
I wasn’t trying to compare the efficiency of the Leaf to an IC vehicle, I was trying to point out the fact that you need to size your solar system, or guesstimate your electric bill, not on the capacity of the battery, but on 133% of the battery’s capacity.
This figure is something that does not appear in the EPA estimates, and I have not seen it mentioned elsewhere. All I’ve seen is YMMV or ‘Actual electricity usage is higher’ or some other vague comment.
I can afford to keep my van for hauling things and am addicted to the convenience of having it even though I know I could occasionally rent a vehicle for a lower annual cost.
I put far more miles on my 2014 Leaf with its mere 70 mile useful range.
One additional note. My 70 mile range is in-town, 25-45 mph. A test at 65 mph gave me only 35 miles. The 55 mph limit imposed by a Republican and repealed by a Democrat did make a difference.
Ford Maverick. 3550 to 3750 pounds
Tesla Model 3. 3862 to 4054 pounds
Nissan Leaf. 3,509 to 3,901 pounds
Smart Car 1500 pounds
It seems to me that the Ford Maverick is in the same class as the EVs when it comes to road damage due to weight.
Keep your options wide open. If she doesn’t drive a lot, a newer used ICE might have the biggest net benefit. Consider that an ICE car with a driver who uses it 4K miles a year is a home run for carbon if it otherwise would be somewhere doing double or triple. That’s a real savings, even if it feels a little like a weak justification. Bill is on to something where he points out he does not expect to be driving a lot longer. If the choice of vehicle doesn’t impact the fleet distribution (mainly that is if you buy a used car that certainly will sell to someone), maybe make a choice that is simplest to accommodate.
A BEV purchase is highly dependent on your car/driving situation.
1. We are single-car family that only drives about 2500 miles per year. The longest typical trip for us is under 25 miles each way. Our VW ID.4 is perfect for us as we had the money to buy it without subsidies in 2022. We charge at home in our garage at Level 2.
2. Our immediate neighbors are a single-car family who drive about 8K miles per year. They have driven all over Colorado and have become experts at finding charging stations in the hinterlands. Typically, they charge at home, Level 2.
3. Our other neighbors have 2 cars. An old Subaru and a newer Tesla. They charge at home at Level 1. They actually use the Tesla for longer trips. The Subaru is the commuter car.
4. Our other neighbors have 3 cars (1 for the au pair). They have a ICE Audi Q7 and a BEV Audi Q4. He loves the Q4. They will have an ICE vehicle for towing the camper trailer for a long time. They charge at home at Level 1.
Not second-guessing your choices, but your utilization is in line with my thinking of lower usage operators maybe considering used ICE. You would rack up 25K in a decade, but entirely plausible that the alternate owner could do over 100K. Distributing the used ICE market to low mileage operators would be useful. If you are not going to drive a lot, at least consider “locking up” a good used ICE into a sort of min gas consumption regime for your ownership horizon.
just my usual hate everybody rant:
i really really do not like the climate change deniers, the anti EV people and that whole ignorance is bliss maga crowd. but neither do i like excessive (excessive) government, stupid government and things like required “safety” gas cans that are so badly designed they are actually less safe than the old “unsafe” ones. it seems to me the move to all electric vehicles is another of those things that make people hate the government. …making it harder for those of us who think that government is necessary to make our case.