Arizona’s HB-2648 will Kill the Predatory Practices of Arizona HOA Attorneys
Some Background and History
If you ever move to Arizona around Phoenix and maybe even further out, you are probably going to end up in a development which has a Home Owner’s Association (HOA). My experience with HOAs is mostly positive as the Pres. and the Board Members lived in the same subdivision as we did in Michigan. In Arizona, Homeowner’s Associations are far different. They can be corporate and run by a commercial enterprise as hired by Builders and Declarants. In which case, calling the Organization a HOA is a misnomer. In reality, it is a Builder’s Homeowner Association or BHOA.
BHOAs are a completely different beast. The builders and declarant choose the HOA Inc. to run the development. The declarant will choose the Development HOA Board members, usually from their staff, and tell the HOA Inc what they wish. There is little or no homeowner input. Ours is supposed to be five members, the Declarant cut it to three members. In reviewing HOA Board membership, none live in the development. It appears all have worked for builders in the past. And there, we have a conflict of interest.
Finally, the development homeowners have no access to them. In turn, the Corporate HOA makes all decisions concerning the development and inform the homeowners of their decisions. Homeowners can complain all they wish, to no avail.
There is little or no input from homeowners. Some homeowners have purposely withheld paying monthly HOA fees which pays for the HOA Corporation. This is a big mistake. HOAs can place a lien on the property, add the attorney charges ~$800 to process the lien, the county adds some fees, and then the monthly fees are added into the lien plus interest. Get the picture?
This gets me to the topic of this commentary (more particular detail on AZ HOAs to come).
Who Backs Homeowner Associations and Homeowners?
The Arizona Homeowners Coalition organization advocates for homeowners living in the developments having Homeowner Associations. The organization which advocates for Homeowner Associations is “The Community Associations Institute.” They align with Homeowner Associations. The big players within this group are the commercial entities such as builders and declarants. Builders and declarants can be separate entities.
The group from which I receive information from is the Arizona Homeowners Association. This organization represents homeowners. Keep in mind, this is not a battle to eliminate associations. There is an uneven playing ground between corporate interests and homeowners. Dennis, the lead for the Arizona Homeowners Association is attempting to balance the interplay between HOAs and homeowners. He advocates with the Arizona House and Senate in an attempt to get more exposure to Builder and Declarant paid BHOAs. As Dennis says, HOAs are not going away. HOAs are here to stay. Homeowners must seek a balance between the power HOAs have and homeowners.
What is on Arizona Governor Katie Hobbs’ Desk
Arizona Homeowners Coalition Legislative Update #13 “Dennis”
The most significant of all these pieces of legislation is HB-2648 relative to assessment liens. This bill won the unanimous approval of every legislator from both houses despite the extensive efforts from CAI to kill this bill. This bill is written to stop the predatory collection practices of HOA attorney and could have significant impact on a major revenue stream for those law firms. With the potential side benefit of many of these law firms choosing to shift their practice to chasing ambulances instead of harassing homeowners.
CAI is most dangerous when they can focus all their propaganda and misinformation on one or two individuals, and they have pulled out all the stops to do that with the Governor. This link is to the CAI Legislative Action Committee’s call to action on this bill. CAI Propaganda Call to action. The story line in this communication is absolutely untrue and meant to protect the financial interest of the lawyers and not the community in any way. I’ve already contacted the Governor and requested a face-to-face meeting with the Governor and/or her staff to discuss this bill and the three others that will be on her desk next week. The Governor has 5 days to either sign or veto this bill, so time is of the essence.
The Bill is be HB-2648 at the bottom portion of Dennis’s article.
I intend to bring more of the BHOA issues to bare. Emphasizing what I am seeing in our BHOA. And highlighting the decisions they are making on amajor issue. An issue going on for over a decade and left to homeowners alone. The BHOA, declarants, and builders are scrambling for cover. The solution will be given to homeowners in what I believe will be a take it or leave it proposition.
How Do HOA Attorneys Fit into This?
There is some extradentary fees being charged to register a lien in Pinal County of which most of it are Attorney fees. It is definitely a profit-maker for attorneys (10 times the collection cost over the actual delinquency) who work with builders and declarants. ~$800 per register with the county much of which is a short paragraph written up by the BHOA Board Clerk. County fee is $30. The rest is all in charges from the BHOA Attorney for a signature and a stamp. Go figure . . .
i figure
as long as we have corrupt politicians we will have predatory business.
john oliver did a show on homeowner associations a year or so ago. ugly. why would anyone want to buy a home in an “association”?
corollary: as long as the people are ignorant or divided, we will have predatory business and corrupt politicians. or maga hats: these people know they are being screwed but they vote for the screwers.
Dale:
It is the developers and builders who are the issue here. They have a lot of money and they spread it around.
When we bought our home from Meritage, like all other buyers we expected it to be as perfect as it could be. Knowing also, there would be issues. a few, but not 25 in the beginning. They had busted up the sidewalk with their overweight vehicles. When we moved in, there was one slab up the driveway open to the street so the movers could use their dollies to go up it with our furniture. Three weeks later it was fixed. That was the start.
As you looked at the driveway, it pitched from left to right. They matched the walkway coming from the front door. This instead of sloping the walkway to the driveway. One haf the driveway was repoured. I still have to pack the crease between the two slabs and caulk which they should have done. If I do not, rain will wash the sand and dirt out from under it and it will crack.
My wife wanted blinds, so we got them with the house. Every rod was a different length. The door threshold, you could see light under it. Toilet paper holders were too close together so the roll would not roll. The guy installed the close doors so they would not close against the trim properly and their were gaps. The drain caps needed cement around them.
I emailed a bunch of people at Meritage. I got their emails off of Linked-In and things started to get fixed at a quicker pace.
They all acted it like it was my fault. It was kind of like “Go to hell, and fix the damn thing right like you should have in the first place.
A story about the dumb-ass assistant construction manager. We were at the gas hot water heater (once it goes, we will get the on-demand version). He tells me that the gas shut off at the hot water heater will also shut off the stove. I look at the piping to it and told him; No. it will not. There was not T-pipe there where another line goiing to the stove might be. (We will replace the gas stove with and Induction stove).
He keeps insisting it will. So, I told him show me. So he shuts off the hot water heater and we go in the kitchen, He turn a switch on the stove and it lights up. Right than, any fool would know turning off the hot water heater will not shut off the stove. He tells me, there is still gas in the line and wait a minute. A minute goes by and it is still on and he microwave is cooking from the heat. So I turn the stove off and ask where the stove shut off is. It is behind the stove.
I go outside and see the gas meter has a shut off. I told him I guess I will shut everything off out here if needed. Oh know, you will get a ticket. I look at him and said; “So, I should let the house burn down?” If there is a fire? And the neighbors burn too?
They talk to you like you are stupid and you caused the problem. I told one guy, who do you think you are talking to? I learned my dad’s trade as a bricklayer-tuckpointer. The high school I went to taught house framing, drafting, etc. I worked the scaffoldsin Chicago 10, 20, and thirty stoeiws up on the United of America building in Chicago befor leaving for the Corps.
These people and the bosses were downright rude and disrespectful. I bought a new house and I expected everything to be proper. No excuses.
PS> I can be a real ass if pushed.
Bill
yes, the builders are the issue…we have deveoped a business model of fraud in this country. fortunately when i bought my house the issues were few and i could fix them myself…including a new roof. but when i complained i was told “that’s what you expect when you buy a house.” i had planned to remodel the house some, but the city’s fees for permitting were so outrageous i said the hell with it. just as well. my daughter remodeled her old farmhouse and now her property taxes say she has a million dollar house. more than i can afford to pay, but i have to because her farming business was destroyed by 2008 recession, and lazy judge ( farm was “cropshare” no salable crop, no money, landowner demanded payment anyway, court agreed). so welcome to America, great to be in America, everything free in America, for a small fee in America. and you wonder where the Magahats come from.
but the main post seemed to be about homeowner association, which is a different kettle of rotting fish.
the problem with the roof was not that it was old, but that the house movers had left nail holes in it from the braces they used to move it. when i looked at the house before buying, there were inspectors notes all over it “fix this'” i expected those things to be fixed before closing the sale. they were not. i asked the city why not. oh, we don’t enforce the code on “low income” houses. apparently low income buyers can’t get electrocuted or suffer a house fire from faulty wiring. no one told me it was a “low income house.” i bought it because it was clean [no mold], well lighted, and close to my work. much later i bought some land expecting to build on it. was told i could not because of new land-use laws…which had been changed recently. due dilligence you know. when i though i knew the land use law, it was because a window had been opened for the benefit of some large landowners, which had been closed after the large landowners had made their big deals and gone their way…
that’s what lawyers are for..but you need to see them first. they can’t help you after you have been screwed, but might keep you from being scewed if you talk to them first.
don’t mean to tell you the story of my life… but it happens to everyone.
When we first started considering our move to the Northeast, I thought we should downsize to a condo. In the event, we ended up with a detached house. It was more house than I wanted. But your experience with HOAs makes me glad we didn’t do the condo thing.
Joel:
In AZ, people actually believe “you” the person is always at fault when it comes to this stuff. Oh, you should have read the CCRs. The CCRs are sixty pages long. Then there are bylaws and Design rules. When you are supposed to set your garbage cans out is 12 hours before pickup. And that is not in the CCRs because they can not change it. It is i the Design rules. Recently, they have been picking up at 3 PM and before at 11 AM. Just work the numbers. I do not know how anyone could know the CCRs and they are being abused by the Declarants. The Lakes here are polluted and they have done nothing over two-three years to fixed them. Now they say, they are close to a solution. Maybe they all leave or just shrug their shoulders and say, not my problem anymore? Sicty percent of the hoes built are under a builder’s HOA control.
I am going to post more on the issues coming out in AZ.
Bill
ah, a Builder’s HOA. I missed the distinction. but I am told it is a distinction without a difference. or maybe Oliver missed the distinction too.
Dale:
We are told we can not talk to the Builder HOA Board. We only can talk to the CCMC representative who probably is not telling us everything which is to occur. There is a big difference between a Builder HOA and a Community HOA. I just gave you two differences. The HOA Pres. tells the CCMC rep what to say and it does. It is pretty sterol.
Bill,
no doubt there are differences, i don’t know enough to know. But it strikes me there might be similarities which would make Community HOA just as dangerous for homeowner. Personally I wouldn’t take the chance. The whole point of owning a home is to own it. Bad enough (though necessary) that the city, county, state, and federal governments still limit your “ownership.”
The builder/developer has total control of the Development. Normal HOA’s do not have that much control.
America has the highest ratio of lawyers to population in the world (1/250). These reform HOA laws are going to hurt their income stream.
@Jackson,
According to this link, Israel has the highest number of lawyers per capita in the world. The US isn’t even in the top 10.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/lawyers-per-capita-by-country
Data produced by the United Nations –(questions remain)
One lawyer per 250 citizens is still very high but beneficial to bill board operators. But not so much for car insurance premiums.
@Jackson,
“Data produced by the United Nations –(questions remain)”
So other than an ad hominem, you’ve got nothing.
William:
Hardly the point of this commentary.
The “Fix” was already in. Heads they win and tails they win. People have no recourse. If they sue, the community to which the commercial HOA governs pays for the HOA, builders, and declarants defense.
Your comment in relation to the commentary is a non sequitur to the commentary.
To add to this, I always love to hear from jackasses who say:
– Talk to your HOA. What an HOA representing the Builders?
– Or read your CCRs- all sixty plus pages of it. The three-person Builder HOA doesn’t. Their hired attorney does. It is complex and long for a reason.
– Why did you move there in the first place? There is an obligation to reveal all faults or information existing. Except the sales people do not. For example, would you have moved there if you knew how the HOA was made up of? Or that The Lakes were polluted and will need $thousands of dollars of work?
William, you need to stop. You are off the topic and I am in a rant-mood which is not good for silly comments and commenters.
Bill
now you know how i feel. there is a reason to put up with silly comments…but only for a short time. the comments may only appear silly but contain a point worth exploring, or you may be able to educate the silly person, or/and censorship can be a slippery slope that leads to mutual ignorance.
that said, i agree that present problem commenter adds no value to the conversation and has had his time in court.
funny, though, that the only censored comment i have seen around here lately has been mine, when i commented on the censor.
Dale:
I eat enough jello around here as it is. So when I have had enough, I say no more jello for me (mom!).
as for myself, i prefer to deal with my own trolls rather than have an appointed Censor make those decisions. It helps me, slowly, to learn to control my own anger.
Bill @2:10
i can guess what you mean about jello but not clear who you are throwing it at.