Considering the Inconvenient Truth About Electric Vehicles
There are two good articles to be read here. Most is drawn from The Atlantic article and the other from The Detroit News. Some of the information is pulled from other articles to which the links are in the article. EVs may be the wave of the future. I think we will need better technology to power the electric vehicles and also lessen the energy pollution needed to make them.
“Electric Vehicles Are a Status Symbol Now,” The Atlantic, Andrew Moseman
During one of the high-dollar ad spots in last night’s Super Bowl, Will Ferrell plowed an electric GMC Sierra truck through Zack Snyder’s army of the dead. He then drove an electric Chevy Blazer into Squid Game and staged a getaway in a hulking EV Hummer. General Motors’ ad, the latest in a string of EV-touting, celebrity-laden Super Bowl commercials, hopes to paint the company’s battery-powered offerings as being just as rugged, capable, macho, and desirable as the big, petrol-powered trucks it has sold for decades. Here’s something the ad doesn’t tell you: How far those electric vehicles will go depends a lot on how much you can spend.
It is going to be a while before electric vehicles replace gasoline vehicles. Ford Motors announced in 2022, it was splitting its business between traditional Ford Blue (badge) division business and the newer business designating it as the new technology Ford Model e division business. Unless the latter fails miserably the former is destined to die out in a decade. As is usual, the business owner may be getting nervous about costs, the costs of running two different businesses.
Costing approximately, $2.7 billion in 2022, Ford recently dropped the 100% self-driving car project with Argo AI. It could be the knowledge may surface again in a few years. Ford also found battery defect(s) in the F150 vehicle project. They raised the price of the F150 again (3rd time). William Clay Ford Jr. (exec. chair) has to be watching this closely. The family owns 40% of the Ford stock.
The new Ford F-150 Lightning is the electrified version of America’s long-time best-selling vehicle. It is one of the most important vehicles for persuading the majority of the country to ditch gasoline. The basic model starts at $55,000. (EVs are expensive. Also, consider the average price of any vehicle snuck up to $47,000 by the end of last year. Americans are already paying luxury prices on formerly utilitarian pickup trucks).
Choosing the F-150’s extended-range battery stretches the distance on a charge from 230 miles to 320 and raises the cost to at least $80,000. This cost trend holds true with all-electric brands such as Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid, and for many electric offerings from legacy automakers. The bigger battery option can add a four- or five-figure bump to an already accelerating sticker price.
So far, Ford has legacy costs for gasoline vehicles, failed R&D projects, and EV new product development. Is there anything else to throw on the pile of costs? Well, maybe.
Anyone living or has lived up north knows old batteries may fail in Winter or even in Summer. They get old and capacity decreases. Weather puts an additional strain on car batteries when starting especially. When you are traveling in your car with 4 or more people, the additional weight in the passenger section and luggage in the trunk reduces engine efficiency. Toss in a headwind and you experience even more of a drop in mileage gained. Similar occurs in EVs.
Not all miles are created equal, either. A Chevy Bolt flying down the interstate or F-150 Lightning towing a boat to the lake, will not go as far as the stated remaining miles would suggest. Or if the back of the F150 is empty.
Load up the F150 box with 1000 pounds and the mileage range will decrease.
For this reason, popular EVs are beginning to list their range statistics for both city and highway driving. Gasoline or diesel cars and trucks have traditionally done this for their fuel mileage. It gives potential owners a realistic idea of how far the various trim levels of the vehicles will truly go.
Over time, just as the aging battery’s capacity in traditional vehicles wanes, so too will the batteries in electric vehicles. It’s unlikely we’ll be heading to Sears for a replacement, considering the retailer’s dwindling presence. Instead, the EV industry is advancing, and services are evolving in a way that may remind one of how 온리팬스 무료 content became available, changing how consumers traditionally accessed paid content.
As the EV sector grows, so does the infrastructure to support it. With the development of a Lucid plant nearby, city councils are prompting apartment builders to consider the number of EV charging stations in their plans. It’s clear that economic incentives shape these decisions, with manufacturing developments steering the course, much like content creators on platforms adapting to market demands.
In an electrified America, charging access may become a status symbol. Because the first wave of new EVs are expensive. America’s affluent tax brackets made up the bulk of early adopters. The same people are also those most likely to be able to afford their own homes and install a charger that can power up their car overnight. EV adoption is reaching mainstream levels which is happening at rates outpacing even the expert predictions. Lots of new electric drivers will be the same urban dwellers that have been priced out of their local housing market, creating two classes of EV owners.
I am not seeing charging station at the Walmarts, Sams, Costcos, Kroeger’s, etc. yet. Charging in public other than at home may be problematic. That may be an issue till utilities catch up and have credit card stations too. The there is safety . . .
The chair of the National Transportation Safety Board has concerns about the safety risks of heavy electric vehicles. Jennifer Homendy;
A GMC Hummer EV weighs more than 9,000 pounds. With a battery that weighs more than 2,900 pounds, it alone is around the weight of a Honda Civic (or slightly less that my VW Passat).
A Ford F-150 Lightning is up to 3,000 pounds heavier than the non-electric version, and the Mustang Mach-E, Volvo XC40 EV and the Toyota RAV4 EV are all around one-third heavier than their gas-powered counterparts.
With the public being enamored with going way faster than the limit and drafting the vehicle in front of them, there will be increased injuries and deaths on highway. We have not even touched upon pedestrian injuries who are difficult to see from jacked up vehicles or squats. Then there are bicyclists. Heavier vehicles increase the risk of fatal injuries in accidents.
Jennifer Homendy; “We do have a climate crisis that needs to be addressed. We have to be careful that we aren’t also creating unintended consequences. Safety, especially when it comes to new policies and new technologies, cannot be overlooked ever.”
Mass and velocity are two of the biggest risk factors when it comes to crashes, having “a significant impact” whether it’s a crash with another vehicle or a pedestrian or cyclist.
Never thought I’d own a status symbol.
I’m a little tired of the “virtue signaling” bullshit …
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
Locations Go Anywhere
With 40,000+ Superchargers, Tesla owns and operates the largest global, fast charging network in the world. Located on major routes near convenient amenities, Superchargers keep you charged when you’re away from home. Simply plug in, charge and go.
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[Plug in your own zip code. Mine is covered well with charging about 4 miles away, but my zip is ideally located outside the core city where land is cheaper but still well within the general range of urban sprawl those 4 miles back towards the city. Four miles further out my home is at the exurban edge of development with even cheaper land but less dense demand.]
I drive one of the last Saabs ever built, a 2008 9-3. (There were models built in subsequent years, until 2011 I believe, but basically unchanged from mine. Then they went under.)
Long story short. Best car I’ve ever owned. Still driving it after 15 years. It’ll be my last.
The brand was sold to China; the 9-3 was to be reborn as an EV.
However…
The story of Saab is a sad one, at least in the ending. The company ended up bankrupt, and production due to a close. Saab’s assets became the property of National Electric Vehicle Sweden, or NEVS, a vehicle company which came to be owned by Chinese real estate giant Evergrande Group in 2019. With the conglomerate now scrambling for cash to meet its debt repayments, NEVS CEO Stefan Tilk says the company could be up for sale, reports Automotive News.
The Swedish-based arm of the Evergrande New Energy Vehicle group has had a strange history in the wake of acquiring Saab’s assets in 2012. NEVS first built a limited number of Saab 9-3s, but only delivered 420 units from 2013 to 2014 before shutting down production. The company had issues paying its creditors leading to court action in 2014. In the wake of this, NEVS lost the right to use the Saab name which is controlled by now-unrelated aerospace and defense company Saab AB.
NEVS then spent much of the last decade touting it’s own modified 9-3 EV prototype, first seen in 2014. 2017 saw the company secure a production license in China, before a controlling stake was purchased by Evergrande in 2019. Prototypes of the 9-3 EV have since been spotted in the wild, including 10 showing up in Sweden last year. Concrete information is scarce, but the lack of any big public announcements strongly suggest that the 9-3 EV has not been built in any great numbers, either in plants in China or in the old Saab Trollhättan facility. The company also announced it would lay off 300 of its 650 employees in Sweden in August this year.
Despite this, reports are that NEVS could be valued at up to $1 billion. It’s a large figure, one that perhaps accounts for the company’s ownership of real working automotive factories, even if they haven’t been used much lately. CEO Stefan Tilk notes that “We are in dialogue both with venture people and companies that have the same idea and direction as us and want to get into this with our full competence,” adding that the company is talking with “both industrial partners and venture capitalists.” …
The Ghost of Saab Might Be for Sale… Again
The only reason for EV F150 and cars is really to favorably impact total carbon emissions. That’s a good reason, but if it is not happening, these efforts feel premature. Concentrate on transitioning electrical generation. I don’t feel pessimistic about that, but honestly think the decade of the 2040s will be about the earliest enough base electrical demand is satisfied by non-carbon that it will make sense to add terrestrial transportation to electrical demand. If there is a non-carbon and non-electric technology out there, hope serious folks are looking hard at it and not thinking EV must be the future. Patience with EVs makes sense if electrical generation transformation timeline means it really will be quite a while before it fulfills its climate mission.
This is spot on. We lived in St. Louis last year at this time. 70% of electricity there was generated from coal, so the EVs in St. Louis were running on coal. Now we live in Rhode Island. 95% of electricity here is generated from natural gas, so the EVs here are running on methane.
Until electrical generation transitions to nuclear and/or renewables, EVs will continue to generate greenhouse gas.
Baby steps. RI is said to get 2% of its electricity from windpower.
Twice as much as MA does, supposedly, percentage-wise.
Like I said, a RI EV is fueled by methane. So, apparently, is a MA EV. When you consider how much methane escapes between the wellhead and the turbines, EVs around here are at least as damaging to the environment as diesel- and gasoline-powered vehicles.
And the whole idea of an EV SUV or Hummer is just obscene.
Coastal states such as ours are prime territory for windfarms.
For decades there was strenuous resistance from wealthy coastal estate owners. Perhaps that is starting to change. There are ample resources in the area for wind turbines. There’s a long way to go to make significant gains.
For the sake of puture inhabitants, we need to pick up the pace.
Even if it’s already too late?
Eric:
Did you really think EVs were totally energy efficient? Look at the footprint I am talking about. It is not quite there yet. I do not think anyone is claiming such yet. To me, pickups are like driving a tank down the roads at high speeds purposely. Copy and Past here:
For example, a study conducted at the Leibniz Institute for Economic Research at the University of Munich, said that a Mercedes C220 diesel creates less greenhouse gas emissions than does a Tesla Model 3. Michael Kelly, professor emeritus of engineering at Cambridge University, argued that the need to charge electric vehicles would overload the electric grid and could lead to power cuts in Britain. He also believes the world does not have enough raw materials to make the large quantities of batteries needed.
Neither of those statements is accurate, according to Auke Hoekstra, director of energy transition research at the Eindhoven University of Technology. In a paper published in 2020, Mr. Hoekstra writes that batteries will most likely last more than 500,000 kilometers, or 310,000 miles; that research shows gasoline and diesel pollute more than previously thought; and that the energy needed to create batteries has already declined while electricity production from renewable sources is growing.
Mr. Keoleian said he expects that electric vehicle emissions will improve, even in those U.S. counties that rely on coal to create power for the vehicles. “In the future, B.E.V. emissions will decrease due to the retirement of coal plants and the increase in renewable energy sources,” he said. “Our message is that we need to accelerate the transition to battery electric vehicles.”
Multiple studies have supported the view that electric vehicles are already the more environmentally friendly choice and will only become more so as technology progresses.
Also:
This January, another study, conducted by Ricardo PLC for the Fuels Institute, a nonprofit think tank focusing on transit and fuel, found similar results. In 200,000 miles of driving, a typical internal combustion vehicle would emit 66 tons of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States. A battery electric vehicle would emit 39 tons over that same distance. And within 19,000 miles, the higher emissions caused by battery manufacturing would be offset by lower emissions from driving an electric vehicle.
Well that’s the main reason that I would advise slowing down EV adoption, since the time could be used for better EV or possibly something different. Force highly expensive refleeting and build out all the needed charging and support networks and get little net carbon shift for 20 years and then recognize there is a better technology ready (or almost) would be a real shame.
would wonder if ICE emission were lower, except by ignoring all of the emisions from looking for oil (driving …fossil fueled vehicles to look for it…) drill for it (more fossil fueled vehicles to drill for it), then of course the oil has to be transported to the next stage of turning oil into a usable product. lots of that is done by ships (powered by you guessed, fossil fuels). some is done by pipelines (which have a history of rupturing and spilling oil every near them, buried or not, or in lakes/oceans where wat was drinking water is no longer drinkable). now on to the refinery takes in the oil, and using lots of electricity (who knew that needed that), and use all sort of chemicals to transform oil into fuels we can use (along with plastic, with other products). along with chemical spills (which seem to happen about every 2 days in the US). now the next step is to get the finished products to where can use them, which of course uses trucks to transport them (using more oil to do that), which deliver to the gas stations, which of course use electricity to actually deliver to us gas/diesel. and other and at many points of this chain, we have spills, from trains to pipelines to ships, to truck, and also at places we store the products, also have accidents. while EVs are certainly not pollution free (we have nothing that is), its a lot better than this long list of just generating fuel for ICE vehicles. and beyond that we dont exactly keep our ICE vehicles in the best of shape. they also loose range over time, and towing heavy loads, will also impact ICE vehicle range. the only thing (so far that ICE an advantage really has is that it can refuel faster). both have lost of the dame parts (ex Tires).
couple of things
not all US states use coal to fuel power plants, even states with coal, arent. most have switched over to natural gas, almost all because natural gas is cheaper than coal. most of the problems with power generation have more to do with the cost of adding additional electric generation. the majority of utilities will do anything to avoid building new power plants, since they do cost more than a few billion dollars to build and take to years construction. the ‘grid’ as some seem to conflate with the wires carrying electricity and generation of same. we do have issues in some states where the wires havent been maintained in decades if not longer, or the state plan separated the power generation from wires to get it to its destination. oddly enough the 2 states with the biggest problem (Texas and California) have both deregulated the industry. now we also have the lowering of demand (lots of that) because today’s equipment (both residential/commercial/industrial) is much more efficient, because buyers are much more sensitive to that cost. whuch has helped the utilities to not have invest in plants, and has even reduced the need to generate much in the way of power.
And while most of the EVs today are actually charged at home, and at off peak hours to boot (almost Evs can be programmed to only charge of peak). now are EVs the be all end all of personal transportation? for the next 20 or so years, maybe. depends if some on can actually figure out how to generate hydrogen without needing fossil fuels to do it. so far, not able to do that at scale. as it is, the mostly widely available source of energy is electricity, and exceeds every other source of power today. so in short, the grid isnt the biggest problem to switch to EVs.
The biggest problem is public charging infrastructure. in part its not quite as fully developed as the fossil fuel system (which by the way has been shrinking, as the more rural areas cant support lots of them, and the companies cant make money just selling gas any more). and oddly enough if your area’s major source of electricity is fossil based, guess what? your ice vehicle is too, since gas stations need electricity to operate. are they perfect? has anything ever been? no . but doing nothing has its own consequences, which wont care if we try or not at least make life close to what we have had. which cant and wont happen if we dont at least try. course EVs do have one major advantage over ICE vehicles, they are much more efficient, as in they use a lot of more of the energy that they use to power the vehicle, while gas uses maybe 20% at most (oil is little better…but not all that much), while EVs are closer to %80-90. ICDE vehicles loose a lot of what they use to heat. never mind losses to just getting the power to move the vehicle
Hey WDW
I broke this into three parts so I could read it better. You have a good argument. However, it is difficult to read. I lose my place and have to find the beginning of the sentence again. Anyway, good comment. Suggestion? Paragraphs would help.
There seems to be a report on an amazing new battery technology every other month. Somehow they never seem to make it into phones, much less cars.
The Costco in Rancho Cucamonga CA had a charging station back in the late 90’s, when Chevy was leasing the EV1 and Toyota had electric Rav4’s the Edison company was testing. Then the cars and the charging stations disappeared. Several malls had charging stations in the parking lots back then too. And they too went away.
Even without the question of how dirty is my electricity, the limited range and limited availability of charging and the inconvenience of charging when not at home add up to not quite ready for everyday consumer use. My former employer has a charging station for employee use. At least every other month the newsletter reminds employees to pull their car off the charger when it is full so others can charge.
Jane:
I am waiting for that better battery too. Shedding the weight of these car and truck batteries would help tremendously.
battery tech needs to improve, and as mentioned above, seems like weekly there is a new battery tech that if they can make it production ready, would improve almost every thing about using them. thats sort of like having a weekly modification of ICDE engines, so that they can increase MPG (aka range), reduce pollution to as close to 0 as possible, and reduce waste heat, which is the result of combustion. oh and reduce the weight of the vehicle, and make it cheaper to buy,
w d w:
To achieve what Ford and the other two are doing is a waste of resource. I am not speaking about the efficiency of EVs. I am speaking of the size of the vehicle. Do we need 4-5 tons of vehicle racing down the highway and main street?
i have seen EV charging stations at mall, and yes, even Walmart). and even truck stops have them also