Post written by Infidel753 as copied from his blog of the same name. The topic? Munchkin blue Kansas.
Ding, dong….. Infidel753
Traditionally, Kansas has been as ruby-red as the slippers sported by its most iconic fictional inhabitant — but the state is looking a little more Munchkin-blue right now, with its voters dropping a house on an effort to facilitate banning abortion.
At issue, ultimately, was a 2019 ruling by the state supreme court that the state constitution protected abortion rights. This year, forced-birthers placed an initiative on the ballot which would have amended the state constitution to allow the Republican-dominated legislature to ban abortion. Yesterday, voters massively rejected the amendment — votes are still being counted, but it looks like the margin will be about 60% to 40%. This in a state that went for Trump by 56% to 42% in 2020. Turnout was high for a non-presidential primary election day, at least 830,000, compared to 470,000 for primary election day in 2018.
This is the first time since the fall of Roe that abortion rights have been put to a vote in a popular referendum as opposed to a legislature. The results, especially in such a conservative state, can’t be encouraging for the party which has been falling all over itself to pass more and more draconian abortion restrictions.
Republicans may be in the process of achieving the most stupendous feat of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in living memory. A few months ago, everything looked in place for a major “red wave” in this year’s election and probably several elections to come. Voters were alarmed about inflation and gas prices, while the Democrats (thanks mainly to Manchin and Sinema) appeared dithering and ineffectual. As if that weren’t bad enough, the Democrats had managed to position themselves as the party of identity politics, defunding the police, gun-grabbing, men using the girls’ bathroom and muscling in on women’s sports teams, and negativity about “whiteness” in the schools. If a more comprehensive program for political suicide is possible, I can hardly imagine what it might look like.
And then, suddenly, the Republican dog caught the car it had been chasing for 49 years. The federal Supreme Court, thanks to judges chosen by a president installed via vote suppression and Russian meddling, finally delivered the prize the party’s Christianist* base had single-mindedly sought for decades — the overturn of Roe v Wade. Red-state legislatures vied with each other to pass the most extreme bans and restrictions, and there has even been talk about limiting interstate commerce in abortion pills, as well as interstate travel, to prevent women in red states from accessing abortion services based elsewhere.
Almost overnight the Republicans have re-branded themselves from a bulwark against urban anarchy, gender lunacy, and anti-white racism, to the party of forcing ten-year-old girls to serve as breeding stock for rapists.
Now, they can change course when they realize they’re about to march over a cliff. Just yesterday, having shrewdly figured out that blocking a veterans’ health-care bill they themselves had approved mere weeks before, out of pique about the Schumer-Manchin tax-and-climate deal, (and fist-bumping with glee about it) wasn’t a good look, they reversed themselves and let it pass.
But abortion isn’t like that. There’s no serious constituency for shitting on veterans, but to the Christianist voting base that now dominates the party from below, banning abortion is the lodestar, the holy grail, the one ring to rule them all. It’s what has kept them voting, year after year, for Republican candidates they would otherwise have found dubious, up to and including Trump — the hope that, at long last, Roe would be swept away and state power would act to enforce their most fanatically-held taboo. They won’t tolerate any reversal by politicians.
And so now the mainstream American mass public mind has suddenly awakened to the fact that, no, all this religion and anti-abortion and anti-gay stuff isn’t just a smoke-screen for the old agenda of tax cuts and racism — it is the actual agenda now. This is no longer the party of Goldwater and Reagan and the Bushes. The Christianists now hold the whip, and they’re deadly serious about forcing women and even young girls to carry unwanted pregnancies to term.
This is not at all grounds for Democrats to get complacent about this November, much less 2024. Their leaders and activists could still blow it by doubling down on all the nonsense that was driving voters away before. But after yesterday’s referendum, no one can deny that the fall of Roe and its aftermath are a game-changer. Even in Kansas, it feels like we’re not in Kansas any more.
[*A term analogous to “Islamist”, referring to fundamentalists and hard-line traditionalist Catholics, not all Christians.]
Now that Georgia has approved a bill giving tax exemptions for fetuses, I have a few questions.
Embryos can be listed as dependents on tax returns, Georgia rules | Georgia | The Guardian
1. Does one have to name the fetus on the tax return?
2. Does Georgia issue a tax id number for the fetus?
3. If a woman miscarries after six weeks, does she still get the tax deduction?
4. Does a man get half the tax deduction if not married to the woman?
For 3, I expect the answer is no. At six weeks, it’s an embryo, not a fetus. I don’t know about the other questions.
I hope I am wrong, but I am very skeptical that voting against the Dobbs ruling will greatly affect which party a person votes for.
The point is that the
rulingresult shows that support for abortion rights is strong even among some people who normally vote Republican (since the majority of primary votes in Kansas were cast in the Republican primary, yet the abortion referendum came out 59%-41% for abortion rights). But in a general election, the way to defend abortion rights is to vote against Republican candidates, as the Republicans of Indiana have just thoughtfully reminded us. So, the presumption is that some people who support abortion rights, but formerly voted Republican since abortion rights were never in real danger (due to Roe) will now vote against Republicans to protect those rights.
“ruling” should be “result” (careless typing).
I think I got the point the first time. What worries me is that having voted against abortion restrictions, the same people will not realize that they need to vote against Republicans. People are not logic machines.
1) “The same people” would only be in Kansas, where this referendum was, and abortion rights in Kansas are fairly secure for the time being. I was primarily thinking of people in other red states, who (as I described) now realize that the only way to protect abortion rights is to vote against those Republicans they would otherwise have supported — and who haven’t had a referendum (as Kansas did) to make them feel that those rights are already secure.
2) No, people are not logic machines, but the average voter is a lot smarter than the typical politics junkie. What the latter can figure out, the former can also figure out.
the verage voter is a lot smarter thn the average college professor thinks he is.
but humans are not as smart as they think they are. and you put someone who votes against bans on abortions in a voting booth thinking the Republicans are all that stands between him and gay marriages, high taxes, and liberal depravity, and he/she will vote for the Republican. Even good Catholics practice birth control..but they still go to church on sunday if they are not too tired.
I read this and feel it was quite appropriate as to where were are as a nation:
“Fundamental rights — and it doesn’t get more fundamental than sovereignty over one’s own body — should not be up for a vote”
Though abortion rights were protected in Kansas, it is a shame that our basic rights are now up to the whims of the voters.
were you here when good liberals were demanding that people be forced to get vaccinated?
Women got used to being treated like responsible human beings capable of making decisions for themselves. And one political party has pretty much gone on record as opposing that.
I only hope that women voters realize just exactly what their vote means.
“I only hope that women voters realize just exactly what their vote means.” Me too!
Now that the amendment has been rejected, Kansas will go right back to voting in Republicans.
What has been achieved is that this is no longer a ballot issue in the fall.
I just laugh every time I read Dobbs and the horrendous aftermath will not be a ballot issue. It’s the only issue for women and their medical providers. The last fifty years of advancements in reproductive care have changed everything from the ability to get pregnant to discovering genetic and physical abnormalities to saving women’s lives endangered by pregnancy. It’s not just about abortion but eliminating 50 year of amazing advancements. Maybe we should just pretend the Web telescope doesn’t exist too.
Thank you for your response. I agree with you. It is an issue. I just hope women come out and vote. We really need more women around Angry Bear also.
What needs to be said is: It’s not just about abortion, you stupid jerks! Tens of thousands of women are on all sorts of life-changing medicines that allow them to lead normal lives but a pregnancy is disastrous and life-threatening.
Tens of thousands of women had medically induced pregnancies and that medical advancement is now in jeopardy.
Millions of women have comprised miscarriages and saving their lives is now in jeopardy.
The medievalists campaign against science and medicine not only on reproductive issues but covid will be a major issue in November. Yes the male pollsters don’t think it’s important or think women won’t remember in November: they’re wrong.
Which is why, we need more like you and Jane around. There is stuff I do not know and the other men I believe have limited knowledge too. I will be damned if I can get someone to write about those issues. Thank you for speaking up.
I am glad to see that at least one other person agrees with me about Democrat political suicide.
As for “Christianist,” that’s a start, but I’d like to see some Democrats come out and call it the Anti-Christists. Christians will know what that means, and it might encourage some “christian right-ists” to actually read what Jesus said about all this.
meanwhile, I also wish the Dems could make a better case that this is about “freedom” including “religious freedom” and “stopping government intereference” and the “right to privacy.”
because “abortion” is a difficult subject….it at least looks like killing a baby to a lot of people… but they can be made to understand “privacy” and “religious freedom” … even if Alito thinks those ideas have no basis in our country’s history and traditions.
because Democrats have also positioned themselves as the party against God…or whatever else it is that ordinary people believe in to help them get through hard times (called “life”).
I think this could be done fairly easily. The Democrats as a Party are generally careful about NOT positioning themselves on these issues, but they fail entirely to make the case that they respect people’s most cherished beliefs.
and it doesn’t matter whether it is a fetus or an embryo. only a few “experts” know or care about the difference.
hugely important: i said “Democrat positioning.” i seem to remember that this word was considered objectionable about the time Dole was running for president. I couldn’t think of what it was I was supposed to say. Probably if I had said “Democrats positioning…” Democratic positioning doesn’t sound right to my ear..too easily confused with democratic positioning.
Democrats have a major opportunity and they should ignore the religious nonsense. Do you know how many women including myself understand they are living because of science? I’m in the south right now and everyone is so used to lying about everything to conform with religious dissonance but the bottom line is women don’t want to die, don’t want to abandon their living children and pretty much are shrugging off the old eve’s sin bs. They won’t say it; but they’ll vote to live.
Fortunately, voting is a confidential process. Look, if you ever want to expand on this topic, I will put it up for you as dd. I made the same offer to Jane. There is much to be told by women.
I wonder how confidential vote by mail is in a “conservative” household. “they” say there is no problem. but how would “they” know?
You know, messing with a ballot or the person voting is a violation of Federal Law.
yes. i know that.
i think that’s about what “Beau of the Fifth Column” said today (on “Let’s talk about Kansas”?)
I like him because he usually sound sensible to me and even knows a thing or two.
It would suit me fine if 100% of women voted against Republican Establishement of Their Religion. but I worry about that culture of pretending to believe what you don’t believe.
I think the Dems as such do a fair job of ignoring Religion. It’s my progressive friends who can’t get though a paraagraph without blaming “religion.” this hurts because most of the time when “religous” people hear attacks on “religion” they are not women thinking about abortion, but people in general thinking about their hopes for a better world (perhaps in the here and now, and not just in the bye and bye) and then they get fierce defending it, maybe because they don’t quite believe it themselves, but it’s all they have.
No, it’s not all they have and yes, religion is to blame and them hurting is hardly a reason to deny medical care.
This is not about abortion it’s about science finding solutions to complex problems that religion rejects because it takes cash away from them and redirects to science. Women don’t cling to religion because they have “hopes” for a better world they cling to it because it gives them cover to accept their victimization as god’s will. Therefore they can avoid the hard work of maturity and truly making a better world for their children.
It takes hard mental and emotional work to overcome years of religious indoctrination that instills nothing but fear and even fear of fear. Then even harder work to realize that all of these religions hide behind the truly spiritual and claim it as their own; for one purpose only: cash and prizes! The Bakers, the popes, Billy Graham and the whole lot of them turned religion into a cash cow.
We’re now at the point where republican policy is killing women and girls and all the major religions are in total agreement. Forget medicine, science, and all the advancements. Women and girls must die because religion says so and republicans agree.
I would be dead without modern medicine many times over and all related to reproduction. Science, amazing doctors and modern medicine saved me: 50 years of amazing advancements that major religions and the republican party want to wipe away. It’s medieval and disgusting and it’s for the money.
So what happens next? States like Texas and Indiana will find an exodus of medical providers. What more evidence does one need that this is not about abortion but about science upending the easy cash cow and the politicians don’t care for now; but I foresee the party of “no regulation” becoming the party of massive medical regulations to prevent providers from leaving and decertifying of their medical institutions. The procedure for abortion is the same as the procedure for a miscarriage how to know which one is okay? Even in a miscarriage the cellular mass may still be “living” even as the mother is bleeding to death and has become infected because that what happens and how women die.
The only positive is that all us ancient feminists are reenergized and our daughters and granddaughters are ready too. As we know, “If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.”
the funny thing here is that you agree with me…as one sentence above gives away, but your experiences have led you to use language that defeats your purpose. what passes for “religion” among the politicians and hypocrites and their victims is not what I mean by religion, is not what many religious people mean by religion, and is not what many serious thinkers mean by religion.
if “cover to accept their victimization as god’s will” does not mean “gives them hope” I don’t know what it means. [their victimization at the hands of men is likely to be a quite real thing, but their victimization by the “system of things” is only accidentally “by men”: women in power have proved to be as vicious…even to women… as men in power. and, of course, “behind every successful man stands a woman. “
i agree that “men are stupid” and have no business telling a woman what to do with her body. but many, probably most, men are on your side. and if you think “women” are angels of kindness and light, you have not been paying attention. you are one woman among many who have had bad experiences with some men and some “religions”, but you pretty much think like a racist (over generalization and hating people because of perceived membership in a class) when you blame all men and fail to distinguish between “religion” and the “truly spiritual” in your rhetoric and thinking. this hurts you more than it hurts them.
of course, even “truly spiritual” is misused by bad people and people who don’t think. since that seems to be “most people” (now I am doing it) the chances are not good we are ever going to fix it.
Of course we’re going to fix it; one generation at a time. And even now it’s being fixed but it’s so sad that so many women and girls will die and be disabled before it finally sinks in. Then again the Civil War, WWI and II took millions of lives before it finally became apparent.
So I have great hope. See you at the Supreme Court protesting the idiots and I’ve long known it’s not just men; Ask Amy.
The other thing that will change everything is medical providers calling state congresscritters and attorney generals to get approval for D&C’s or for late term pregnancies where the mothers suffer from stroke, eclampsia, kidney failure or the innumerable things that can happen in to pregnant women. They will be overwhelmed with emergency calls because stuff happens. Idiot state politicians will be on call 24/7 and that won’t last long. And the malpractice suits will be amazing. Lawyers will be suing state governments for millions!
By the way I have no idea why you think I agree with you.
because i agree with you? (“all of these religions hide behind the truly spiritual.”) i’m all for your cause. i just think your rhetoric, and the thinking behind it is self destructive.
but even i can’t guess what the next generation or two will bring.
It’s not self-destructive for those of us who value our lives and the generations who come after us. What is destructive is appeasing the monster.
I am with you on this. You have every right to be forceful and angry. Many more women will be endangered.
your argument is “self destructive” of your cause. you have every right to feel strongly, “be forceful and angry,” and you have every right to take the consequences of being wrong,
I see no sign that anyone here has understood a word I have said.
As it happens you may be right. Politics being what it is, making angry and forceful noises might be more effective than….well, whtever it is I am trying to be…unless of course you make the other side so angry and forceful they come out and vote against you.
You are not the one who was or gets pregnant. dd can and has been. When you have experienced such, please come back and tell us all about it. This is one of the reasons, I seek a woman’s input on a topic we know so little about. You forget, I was asked to write on the topic and it was all I could do to finish it.
Roughly 1/3 of women who have given birth have issues afterwards leading to death. Medicaid only covered 2 months of care after birth. Biden extended it under the ARA and most recently again in this bill. The US has one of the highest death rates during pregnancy.
Uninsured and minority woman are more likely to die after giving birth. She is the expert. She has gone up against people who say otherwise on pregnancy. Women who can not get care or receive poor care should be angry. I accept her argument.
The US maternal mortality rate peaked during the pandemic and was highest for Black women
I don’t disagree with anything you say. I don’t disagree with dd’s objection to an abortion ban. i do think that saying “men want to control women’s bodies” is hysterical nonsense, though that may have been her experience with one man or some men. i think attacking “religion” is very bad politics, though i assume that is exactly the experience she has had with what she calls “religion.” i am not against science or medicine.
i am against hysterical nonsense. my not being able to get pregnant has nothing to with this. i was pro-choice before either of you were born.
Seriously? Men have not subjugated women? in the US? kept them out of schools? paid them less? etc.? Nonsense coberly. What you are doing right now is hijacking this post and its thread which I dislike and have warned against.
Well, as someone whose vital signs were off the charts during birthing and lived through the heartbeat of my baby diminishing I pretty much know about choosing between life and death. It’s a nightmare and no politician should be involved. It’s about the amazing medical professionals who have just a moment’s notice to save both mother and baby. They have no time for phone calls.
Even after birth, women still face death; but medicine has all but eliminated death from bleeding and childbed fever. Medicine saved my life and my baby’s life. Religion offers thoughts and prayers and remember to give us some cash.
Thank you very much for what you told us on this site. Your and women’s input is sorely needed at Angry Bear. I am going to use two of your comments to make a post out of it and reference you in the post. It is your comment before and after Coberly’s “it’s all they have” comment. I hope you do not object to it. No editing other than, who said what.
On our second pregnancy, my wife aborted at about 9 weeks. We rushed to the hospital. There was nothing that could be done to save the pregnancy. She was devastated. It does not compare to the trauma you experienced. We did have two more children.
I still recall her guilt and the doctor talking to me separately explaining it all.
Thank you for sharing with us. Please get back to me with an ok?
I have no objection. I am one of hundreds of millions of woman who have faced awful decisions at a split second notice. I’m verry fortunate for the care I had and it’s sad that in the modern era women will have it far worse than what I faced.
Thank you. Infidel, the author of the post liked your comments also.
Just a note. Your wife’s trauma was exactly the same as mine and every bit as devasting. The good news is we survived and had more children. Something the rethugs just don’t get.
We can either sit back and take it. Or we can vote these subversives, insurrectionists, control freaks out office. I still need someone who can write on women’s issues. Not every day and when they want to do so. That is the best time when a person is motivated by something impacting them or others.
I am the moderator here at Angry Bear. Dan is the blog owner and we work together. I edit posts for people also.