Open thread Nov. 21, 2009 (no GW) Dan Crawford | November 21, 2009 7:24 am Comments (29) | Digg Facebook Twitter |
I am constantly amazed at the power of special interests to dupe large sectors of the US public into supporting their selfish interests to the detriment of the public interest. 1. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan do nothing for the US public, yet enjoy widespread support. 2. The private health insurance industry profits from depriving many Americans of health care, by easily revoking policies, not accepting people, etc., etc., while a public option would remedy most of these problems. Yet a large sector of the public blindly believes what it tells them, ie to oppose the public option. 3. Israel’s control of our Middle East policy and our foreign policy in general is not good for the US national interest. Yet most Americans are blindly approving of Israel. Anybody explain this to me? How can it be so easy to dupe so many Americans to support things that are not in their interest?
Here is a discussion of a topic that was discussed earlier on an open thread. In retrospect it is clear that the FED has made mistakes. How can you prevent this from happening again? What kind of oversight can be put into place? Since what the FED does it basically a matter of predictive judgment, how can you tell at the time it makes its decisions that they are the wrong ones? And even if you could tell that, who or what would be empowered to alter them? How would such decisions be exempt from political considerations? I don’t think this is a conundrum with any easy solution.
What makes you think that you’re not the guy being played. You’re against Israel? Shazoo — where did that one come from. Maybe a planted idea? And you’re for healthcare reform? Why? If you have employee based healthcare you can only lose. If you’re healthy and relativly young and don’t want to fork over the 5 grand for a 1 grand benefit then how does the democrat only bill help you? The target of this whole thing is to make healthy people buy over priced insurance that they would not on their own chose to purchase. How come you don’t know this?
I don’t see any original points of view coming from you.
I don’t think the issue is whether a point of view is original or not, but whether it is sensible and intelligent or not. What original and intelligent points have you made? You seem unaware of the fact that most of the propaganda being spread comes from special interests that have a financial interest in duping the masses into supporting them. There are no “special interests” that would profit from our getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, just the general interest. Ditto re health care reform. Ditto re Israel. You really seem blind to what is going on with the media, etc. What are the special interests that would profit from health care reform? What are the special interests that would profit from exposing Israel’s strangle hold over US Middle East policy?
I have noticed something that I wonder if others have noticed also. Years ago (since WWII) Hollywood made several movies painting fundamentalist Christians in a bad light and fundamentalist preachers as scoundrels and scam artists. Elmer Gantry for example. As far as I know, this sort of movie has disappeared. I asked myself why and came up with the answer that since fundamentalist Christians have become the bedrock supporters of the GOP (the plutocratic party) and of the Zionist Lobby criticism of them has ended. Big money interests now are allied with fundamentalist Christianity and thus it is now beyond criticism and dangerous to attack or sneer at.
If you’re healthy and relativly young and don’t want to fork over the 5 grand for a 1 grand benefit then how does the democrat only bill help you? The target of this whole thing is to make healthy people buy over priced insurance that they would not on their own chose to purchase. How come you don’t know this?
I don’t ‘know it’ because it is not true. Your bizarre characterization of the health care reform movement is a clear example of someone duped by private insurance propaganda. It is the private insurance companies that sell overpriced insurance with minimal benefits. The government insurance would do the opposite. People with plenty of money can get insurance if they pay enough but the poor can’t. I guess you like most reactionary rightwingers don’t give a damn about America’s poor. Selfishness is a great virtue to such people. Greed and selfishness are their unspoken mottos.
When you don’t charge the full cost to those with pre-existing conditions then by definition you have to over charge those without them. The reason most of those that are not insured don’t buy insurance is because the price is higher then what they would reasonably expect to pay in a given year. So they don’t buy it. Forcing these people to buy insurance is like not pay for service but rather a tax with their tax revenue going to pay for others. Its a lousy deal.
The democrats sales job on healthcare is a big lie. It’s not about cutting costs. Prices are not coming down. Moreover, they have gamed the budget process to get a CBO score that’s not even 1/2 the bills steady state cost.
Another thing that amazes me is the number of people who seemingly don’t know the difference between the common or public interest and private interests. They are not the same. Private interests are the ones that spend millions to convince the public that their private interest is in the public interest. Because it is not is why they need to spend propaganda money to dupe people. The public interest should not have any need for such propaganda, but often it does need to defend the public interest from private attack and misrepresentation. But there isn’t a lot of profit in that, so it tends not to take place.
Actually people with lots of money don’t need insurance, they can self insure, Rush for example can afford to self insure for everything but liability. (Since anyone suing him would proceed to sue for what he is worth). In addition rationing will never under any circumstances affect him, if he could not get his ear implant in the us, he could go abroad. It is fortunate for Rush that he has so much otherwise if he had to buy insurance he could not due to the back problem the ear problem and the drug problem, all being pre-existing conditions.
The right wing thinks that insurance should be sliced and diced so one pays exactly for the risk one poses, whereas the concept of insurance is to spread risk. But then the right stands for rugged individualism, and damn your neighbor, shaft him if you get the chance because its every person for themselves.
When you don’t charge the full cost to those with pre-existing conditions then by definition you have to over charge those without them. The reason most of those that are not insured don’t buy insurance is because the price is higher then what they would reasonably expect to pay in a given year. So they don’t buy it.
Apparently you don’t understand the concept of insurance. Of course those who get hit with unusual costs suffer less because their costs are spread over all those who are insured. In the case of government insurance the costs of those with medical catastrophies are spread over the tax paying population at large. If insurance companies can pick and choose whom to insure and what is paid to each person is determined ahead of time that isn’t insurance by definition. Most people who don’t buy health insurance don’t buy it because they can’t afford it; not because they don’t think they might need it.
Anon, unlike Cantab you understand the concept of insurance. Amazing that someone educated today would not understand the fundamental concept of insurance.
I also am surprised that in discussing the possible costs of the health care reform the media never mentions the cost of the Afghan war. The media estimates the health care reform might cost ca. 800 billion OVER the next ten years. Of course this could easily be paid and more by ending the Afghan war, but evidently the media doesn’t want to suggest the idea to the public. I wonder why not.
Here is paper on war costs. Of course neither of these war has done or will do a thing for the USA at all, except cost billions and billions and kill thousands of young Americans, not to mention the hatred they engender around the world toward us. But the special interests have gotten the US government duped into squandering this vast amount of money on them with nothing at all positive to show for it. Yet many in the US are semi hysterical about what it might cost to make sure all Americans have access to health care. Crazy country run by greedy plutocrats and their special interests. PS: the private mercenary armies we pay like Blackwater of course DO benefit from the wars. The public does not.
This is the kind of moronic media we have in the US. Never any mention of the Iraq and Afghan wars being “budget busters” which they were. Of course they did NOTHING for the average American so they were quite okay. National health insurance will do something for the average American so it is a terrible ‘budget buster.” Talk about an addle-brained nation. Or at least a large segment of it.
Is there any question why so few bother to respond to Chris?
Look at the tone of the comments.
Lectures and dominating a thread will not get us anywhere. I think the tone needs to lighten. Thanks.
please support the request on A New Way Forward for folks to write their Congresspersons asking for the legal and financial analysis on why in 2008 the Fed and Treasury couldn’t use bankruptcy to save the banks and haircut bondholders.
Here’s a nice article for MG who was so worried about the US debt level:
Chris — you might want to look into Ron Paul’s efforts to tame the Fed
I should emphasize that while I am not a Ron Paul supporter, I do think that unlike the rest of the pathetic shambles that is the modern Republican Party, Paul is a voice worth listening to. Paul is smart, well-informed, articulate, and apparently honest. He’s good on civil liberties and opposed the misbegotten war in Iraq from the start. I think he might have made a terrific president … in 1842.
Paul is not a fan of the Fed. I don’t think all of Paul’s ideas are good ones, but I think they are worth examining.
Chris sounds like Dick Cheney.
MG, could be! Both names start with the same letters. Maybe CHris is CHeney-lite. Nahh!!! Cheney isn’t as ignorant.
CoRev, Aw shucks now I see you’re mad at me. Mil descuplas, era sem querer.
Gee if I think the same as Cheney how can I not be as smart as he?. Has he updated his belief that deficits are no problem? Or are they just no problem when the are GOP deficits?
I admire Ron Paul in many regards. I marvel that he stays in the GOP. I would be happy if it were possible to keep the FED from making errors, but I don’t quite see how, since what it does involves predictive judgments, this is possible. At least in time. And if some other entity could second guess the FED then who would oversee that entity to prevent it from making errors, etc., etc., etc.?
OT: (wrong open thread)
Climate Emails Stoke Debate Scientists’ Leaked Correspondence Illustrates Bitter Feud over Global Warming
Nov 23, 2009
It doesn’t appear that this story will go away quietly. I can’t say that I’m surprised by some of the statements in the emails. Rather typical of insider mafia wannabe types.
Say what you will about global warming, but these aren’t the guys that the public should seek in leading the campaign on the science or public relations front. They have no business being funded with university and government monies.
This is just the tip of the IceBerg! I have been looking over it all, and still much more to come. There is going to be alot of heads that roll over this. This is going to be bigger than any political scandle we have seen.
When it is all said and done, probably a few years from now, it is going go all the way to the top.
There is a hell of a difference between the deficits Cheney was talking about and the deficits we are starting to consider.
Bush’s average budget deficit = +/- $275 Billion per year
Obama’s expected average budget deficit = +/- $1.1 Trillion per year (conservatively)
Increase of National Debt under Bush = $3.8 Trillion (thru 2009)
Expected Increase of National Debt under Obama = $6.2 Tillion (2009 thru 2016 Conservatively)
What is an American Interest is in the eye of the beholder. When your interests are extreme and out of touch with the rest of your countrymen, then your gonna find that you believe “it is only everybody else who is stupid and ignorant.”
I can see the problem your having here. It might help you if the things you are mystified by were actually fact. I think in an open minded forum you might realize that when you take your above mystery’s and whittle them down to what is the actual truth, you just might find that Americans aren’t as dumb as you think they are?
I doubt it though, you have been infected by the “Blame America First” Crowd!
NOVEMBER 24, 2009
Lawmakers Probe Climate Emails
But Dr. von Storch, now at the University of Hamburg’s Meteorological Institute, said Monday that the behavior outlined in the hacked emails went too far.
East Anglia researchers “violated a fundamental principle of science,” he said, by refusing to share data with other researchers. “They built a group to do gatekeeping, which is also totally unacceptable,” he added. “They play science as a power game.”