Clueless in Gaza II
“U.S. officials say they believe Hamas has been constrained by the Israeli operations, but that Israel will not be able to achieve, in the foreseeable future, its goal of eliminating the group’s military capability.”
also
“An Israeli military intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity under military protocol, said that Israel was engaged in a comprehensive mission to unravel Hamas’s military capabilities.
“Is it possible this mission will be left for my children?” he said. “The answer is yes.””
and “Current and former Israeli officials said Israeli forces would most likely continue to sweep northern Gaza to tamp down the Hamas insurgency for the foreseeable future, at least until there was some kind of political settlement for postwar Gaza.”
I told them so “I am assuming that Israel’s plan to destroy Hamas militarily will not succeed.” The point is that Hamas is a terrorist organization — Hamas fighters don’t wear uniforms, they can present themselves as civilians. Importantly, the October 7 massacres did not rely on large weapons which can be detected and destroyed — some drones, a few bulldozers and then ordinary vehicles carrying men with AK47s. This is not the sort of force which can be reliably found and destroyed by conventinal military means — it requires police work which requires civilian support (people willing to say something if they see something and drop a dime). Israel has made sure that it will never have such necessary civilian support.
Oddly one debate is over whether Netanyahu’s declared aim is to eliminate Hamas. Odd as he has said this many times eg here, here, here, and here. In spite of this, the Sweet Meteor of Death Itself questioned this fact when I wrote that such a goal can’t be achieved using the means Israel is using.
In fact the stated goal is eradication. In spite of the risk of instant vaporization, I am delighted to have obtained some attention from the mighty SMOD.
I think one reason that Netanyahu states a clearly impossible war aim is that it is very important for hiim that the war not end. He has said that other matters (including who should be Prime Minister of Israel) should only be addressed “after Hamas” which means never.
I also note that, if all you have is a hammer, you pretend that everything is a nail. The IDF is quite good at winning battles. This is not its current goal. It has driven most residents of the Gaza strip (including most Hamas terrorist, almost all Hamas leaders, and the hundred or so hostages who have survived both Hamas and Israeli bombing) into Rafah. The problem that Israel can’t separate Hamas from the Gaza strip civilian population has been reduced in acres but not in difficulty. This was always obvious.
In contrast, Israel has missed a chance to reduce hatred of Israel by delivering aid (they even resist allowing NGOs to deliver aid). When they attacked Nasser hospital, they said they wanted it to function after the attack — it now has no food or water and the first floor is flooded with sewage. The IDF can provide health care. They are idiots because they don’t. The IDF can protect food shipments (instead of just killing Gazan police who are trying to do so). They are idiots so they don’t. Israel can not just fight the UNRWA claiming (correctly) that it overlaps with Hamas, they can aid a rival aid organization aiming to replace it. They don’t because they are idiots (I advised the last in October 2023).
It’s as if they would rather cause suffering and kill than win.
two things:
1) your share button doesnt work.
2) I agree with almost everything you said. This could be a police problem but turning into a military operation it was a great mistake. I was neutral untill I started to see the idf attacking civilians, women, children.. now I cannot be neutral anymore. I even have my own suspicious if maybe the october attack wasnt an inside job and the plan always was a systematic genocide
Mariano:
Thank you for letting us know about “share.” Was unaware, owner died, becoming more aware of things to fix, and am slowly fixing things as we become aware.
You are probably the first who has asked about this function since I have been here (10 years?).
mariano
your mistake, at least as far as i am concerned, is to slide from hating what Israel is doing in Gaza into a baseless conspiracy theory.
racial hate based on a very long running terrorist war and a very recent atrocity by the other side, is enough to explain Israel excess [our opinion] in Gaza. it is no more genocide than “the arabs” have been calling for against Israel for almost a hundred years.
as far as i know…not much… it was Arabs who started this mutual killing when they could have accepted the possibly unjust creation of Israel [by the United Nations] and learned to coexist withn a regime likely to be no more tyrannical than the Ottomans who ruled before the British…also not known for their tenderness in dealing with “the natives”….
just to prove to you that i am a racist…lazy reading of hisory as it happened, and as it is presented in some sources that claim to be honest…i can’t know the truth from where i sit… and encounters i have had personally with some some very personable arab people..”they” are just as incapable of “reason” as any other group of people who have been taught a political position of victimhood.
i have no hope you , or most of the people here, will understand this beyond calling me a racist and pro-genocide israel enabler..but that’s the way it always is. always has been.
anyway, if you want a conspiracy theory, Israel is doing what humans have done since the beginning of time, and exactly what Hamas knew they would do and intended they would do.
I don’t think you are a pro genocide enabler; I just think you don’t recognize that Israel’s government and its leading party advocate from the river to the sea every bit as much as does Hamas. Netanyahu has fought the “two state solution” for his entire political career which explains his original support of Hamas control of Gaza in order to fend off the PLO and its advocacy for the solution.
Jackkd
I do recognize. but that is what i am saying is what humans have always done, and “morality” or “conspiracy” won’t stop it. neither will forgetting what Hamas did to start the current round of racial-hatred blood-letting.
I think these things can be stopped, but only when the “leaders” of both sides see some advantage to themselves of stopping the fomenting of hatred. or some over-arching stronger power sees the advantages to itself of stopping the fighting.
not currently on the horizon. indeed, we have the opposite occurring right here in the former United States.
Eradication is genocide. American Taxpayer conceived, financed and morally sanctioned genocide. Doing to the natives what we did to the natives
@Ten,
“Doing to the natives what we did to the natives”
I’m currently reading “The Iron Wall” by Avi Shlaim. This book certainly confirms your analogy. Although Israel has been supported some of the time with American taxpayer money, I think you deny Israel agency in your comment. Ben-Gurion, Dayan and others were perfectly capable of carrying out the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Arabs without American support.
Robert:
Not literally, but why are we discussing this on Angry Bear? The answer is (my opinion), someone left the backdoor open to Israel. And why would they do such?
Militarily incompetent? Being comfortable? Something else? or a distraction from Netanyahu’s political issues?
Israeli military does not have enough manpower to guard the Gaza wall adequately? I find it hard to believe. The wall was inadequately guarded for some other reason. Netanyahu . . .
How Hamas breached Israel’s ‘Iron Wall’
Bill
“Israeli military does not have enough manpower to guard the Gaza wall adequately? I find it hard to believe. The wall was inadequately guarded for some other reason.”
the expense? both in money and attention span.
Dale:
They have enough manpower. The jackass did not call up the reserves till attacked.
Gee 300,000 called up . . . What will the kin say about the lack of awareness at the border? Netanyahu was in trouble and now he may not be.
Bill
“called up” is expensive, if nothing else, in lost hours…both paid and unpaid.
try sitting up all night in case of burglars and you will see what i mean.
Dale:
You are on unfamiliar territory with a topic you know little about and also the timing I refer to.
Bill
please.
we are all on unfamiliar territory we know nothing about.
i know a lot about sitting up all night worrying about rats in the basement.
please stop acusing me of ignorance whenever i try to point out a possibility you may not have considered.
And the music festival was supposed to end the day before, but was extended without question by the Netanyahu government.
It may not be a conspiracy, but the two choices appear to be either:
1) Israeli security and government didn’t know what they were doing (e.g., ignored the rumors out of Egypt the month before, a la W and the 06 Aug 2001 PDB) or
2) A large faction of Israeli security and government officials knew it was going to happen and didn’t let the opportunity go to waste.
Dale has decided which he thinks is worse.
Ken:
My apologies if I offend. In 1970, we were slated to go. The Israelis got it under control. I was either with 8th or 10th Marines then. Back and forth into Cuba. I do not think I got it wrong.
Those guys are pretty smart. I do not see this as an accident.
By deception shalt thou practice the art of war
At a time when tens of thousands of young (and old) ‘liberals’ are turning out in the streets in protest of the prime minister and his government, calling for a change in said government, the permit for the festival ~ populated by perceived young ‘liberals’ perceived to be in opposition to the prime minister and his government ~ was extended
If a guy had a right and proper tin-foil hat …
Ken
if you know what I have decided, please let me know.
Ken
so you are saying that 911 was Bush ignoring warings in order to shore up his popularity and powers as a war president?
or that FDR ignored warnings about pearl harbor so he would have an excuse to go to war against Japan?
or rhat Bush I suckered Hussein in to attacking Kuwaitt so he’d have an excuse to attack Iraq?
Vaguely related?
What does the Uncommitted Vote in Michigan Mean?
The NY Times – this morning
The share of Arab American and Muslim voters is small but could be decisive in a close race.
(Anecdotally, elsewhere, some Arab-American Dems in Michigan were quoted as saying that in November, they will definitely choose Biden over Trump.)
Fred:
They will not choose, vote for either candidate. Biden has more to fear from the Mickey Mouse voters. Rememeber my 10 or so posts on Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania?
Anecdotes about ‘doing the proper thing’ are still anecdotes, at least.
Fred:
Stomping your foot and voting for others will not get you to where you want to be. Biden will listen, trump will not.
I agree, wholeheartedly. So let’s hope such anecdotes are indicative of what voters will actually do 9 months from now.
Sitting out the presidential vote in November will only serve to get Trump re-elected. A shivering thought, that.