What is college for?
My parents were both college grads. My dad was an MIT-trained chemical engineer. My mom had a bachelor’s degree in psychology. After she finished college, she got married and became a homemaker, eventually raising five children. Needless to say, during that time she wasn’t earning the average salary of a high school grad—she wasn’t earning anything. She later went on to get a PhD and taught at the universities and community colleges.
What a college grad earns depends as much on them and their motivation as it does on their major.
“Indiana legislators hope to build upon Congress’ “Do No Harm” earnings test with Senate Bill 199, which seeks to end college programs whose graduates don’t earn more than those with only a high school diploma. While the bill has support from the state commission, it faces opposition from faculty who argue it threatens academic integrity. Roughly a dozen public institution programs would fail the proposed test, based on recent federal data showing that the average salary for a high school graduate in Indiana is slightly above $35,000.”*
This strikes me as silly. What you major in in college doesn’t mark you for life. College isn’t a vocational school. The goal of college is to be an educated person who can train themselves. Or it should be.
The most important fact about college grads is that they’re finishers—they completed course after course on time and at standard. What they do with that is up to them.
*is this the mean or median salary for a HS grad?
Indiana doesn’t understand what college is for
What a college grad earns depends as much on them and their motivation as it does on their major.
“Indiana legislators hope to build upon Congress’ “Do No Harm” earnings test with Senate Bill 199, which seeks to end college programs whose graduates don’t earn more than those with only a high school diploma. While the bill has support from the state commission, it faces opposition from faculty who argue it threatens academic integrity. Roughly a dozen public institution programs would fail the proposed test, based on recent federal data showing that the average salary for a high school graduate in Indiana is slightly above $35,000.”*
This strikes me as silly. What you major in in college doesn’t mark you for life. College isn’t a vocational school. The goal of college is to be an educated person who can train themselves. Or it should be.
The most important fact about college grads is that they’re finishers—they completed course after course on time and at standard. What they do with that is up to them.
*is this the mean or median salary for a HS grad?
Indiana doesn’t understand what college is for
In a perfect world, I would agree with you. In the world we have, college exists to “prepare” kids for meaningless jobs.
I said more about this a minute ago, but that comment disappeared.
I majored in generic Engineering and worked as a programmer, sales rep. marketing dweeb and webmaster. The last for 24+ years in a job that was not even envisioned when I graduated in 1970.
Our daughter majored in English and Comparative Literature. She is a manger in a high-tech company whose products/services I do not understand (LOL).
So, I went to college for training and she went to learn about topics she was interested in.
And, of course, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, and Bill Gates famously dropped out of college.
@dave,
My BA was in microbiology. Most of what I did in my career was only dimly envisioned when I finished college in 1977. My daughter majored in Spanish. She then went to law school and has been an immigration attorney ever since. To be fair, many of her clients and the clients of other attorneys she advises are Hispanic.
College exists to prepare you for a changing world. Success belongs not to the strongest, the swiftest or the smartest but to the ones most adaptable to change.
There’s an opportunity cost to college. How folks choose to use that training is up to them.
Joel, I agree that when I went to university there was a nearly universal “finisher” reputation that was attached to all graduates, plus lots of networking. What they did with it was up to them, of course. But I don’t think there is much of a “finisher” reputation of good value any longer. In fact, I think something of the opposite is kicking in now. It raises suspicions in potential employers if you “finished” in a program of what they feel is not serious. You have a geology degree but wanted to help us sell laser machining services? Yeah, that might work, but some other degrees might disqualify you – fairly or not.
Indiana undoubtedly has lots of competing interests looking for state funds and those state funds are raised from economic activities in Indiana. Income is an imperfect proxy for value, but unless there are unlimited resources, decisions about what to do with those resources have to get made on some basis. It’s a low bar and university departments really ought to make graduate income an important goal of their programs and they should be able to do so without severe integrity compromises. It’s a challenge, not a guaranteed punishment.
Two related problems with a college education today. The first is cost, which has risen to absurd heights, totally warping the return on investment for a degree. The second is student loans. This is a pox upon the students that took them out. Particularly, those that do not graduate (over 50%). Even for those that do graduate over 50% end up on jobs that didn’t require a degree.
My advice to students:
1. Take your lowest cost path: community college, then free college by working at least part time for Walmart or Starbucks.
2. Join the military and get free to almost free college.
2. Have your wealthy parents pay for it.
3. Roll the dice knowing that statistically it probably will not work out like you hope.
@Thomas,
It’s not the loans per se, it’s the fact that unlike other types of loans, it is very difficult to discharge student loans through bankruptcy.
FYI, the top line tuition rates are not what most students actually pay. Many or most private universities, for example, advertise high tuition because that makes them more desirable. That’s not to say tuition isn’t still high.
In reality, college isn’t for most people. That said, the unemployment rate among college grads is lower than among those with only a high school diploma.
Whether or not someone takes a job that requires the degree doesn’t necessarily predict their satisfaction. Just because you or I wouldn’t do it doesn’t mean other folks shouldn’t. I don’t know how you monetize personal satisfaction.
Thomas:
I did pretty much of what you said they should do. Did Junior college first all year around. Moved on to a 4-year institute as sponsored by the Christian Brothers BA plus a minor in math. Went to work then.
I left with no debt because I had Veteran’s funding for tuition plus the Illinois state grant. Had a Datson 510 to take me to college and did part time work at a retirement facility.
My wife became a paralegal for USG. That was the key as she made more money than I could working part time.
I was in the Corps from 68-71. Is it worth getting blowup or maimed just to have funds for college? No.
Telling someone to enlist, I do not think is a good idea as the risk is great for them to be injured. As it was, I spent 2 years in and out of Lejeune going to Cuba for months at a time TAD. I was poisoned from the water at Lejeune. Now my platelets disappear from time to time.
And for the last 10 years they deny any responsibility for it. Till a Hematologist Said “more likely than not being exposed to VOCs or TCE or PCEs was the cause. I do not know what they will do. Giving me access to the VA is not enough.
On active duty, I was promoted to Sergeant at 26 months. So, they thought something of me while on active duty.
There should be a better way to gain an education beyond getting injured, killed, or poisoned. Productivity increases with a better education too.
My parents were not wealthy. Dad had a grade school education. Mom was a high school grad. They could feed us . . .
Joel is right about Student loans. I sometimes present Alan Collinge from Student Loan Justice at Angry Bear. I am overdue in doing so. Student loan debt is a killer also and enforced by the government.
@Bill,
“There should be a better way to gain an education beyond getting injured, killed, or poisoned.”
Thanks so much for this comment. I’d like to think that our military exists for something other than tuition subsidy.
America should be investing in its human resources. Other industrialized nations support higher education without asking their talented youth to shoulder debt. Like our overpriced and underperforming healthcare system, we have an overpriced and underperforming higher education system.