Warning to Democrats: you stab Biden in the back?
Warning by Ten Bears from Homeless on the High Desert.
I can understand Ten Bears anger with other Democrats who appear to be wavering over Biden. What happened in 2016 was Democrats not coming together in support of Clinton.
Bloomberg “If you fear that Biden may not be up to the task of safeguarding democracy next November, you need do only one thing to supplant him as the Democratic nominee: then Run.” Ten Bears like myself has no problem with Biden even though he was not my fav in the past. He has proven himself by guiding this nation through a pandemic and set the economy to growing in spite of the pandemic.
Three states put the election in the hands of trump. If you have had enough of trump’s ignorance, threats and lies, then there should be no wavering on voting Biden in for a second term. In three states it did not take many votes to put trump in office.
In response to Ten Bears, I would hope he thinks carefully about voting for Mickey Mouse, etc. in anger. We had enough of such voting in 2016.
Shot Across the Bow …’ Homeless on the High Desert, Ten Bears. A commentary on voting . . .
Warning to Democrats: stab Biden in the back, you will not enjoy my support
I will write in Mickey Mouse for every candidate from President to Assistant Dogcatcher in East Cupcake Idaho, vote yes and no on every ballot measure
I have watched you stab John Kitzhaber, the most popular Governor in the history of the State of Oregon, elected to an unprecedented fourth term only months prior, in the back; watched you stab Bill Clinton in the back, someone I was not a fan of though like his wife was forced to vote for. I mark the Reagan Democrats’ rat-f****** Jimmy Carter as the start of the rathole we’re down, and I still hold the Democrats as responsible for Trump as the Republicans: if they had ran anyone else Trump wouldn’t have happened. Stabbed us all in the back
I set aside my personal feelings, set aside the three strikes Joe Biden’s policy making, the three times Joe Biden personally did me harm, to vote for the greater good. That I was forced to it is moot. I am pleasantly surprised though I shouldn’t be given his experience that he has been the man for the job, the man to turn this mess around.
A President on par with Roosevelt and Johnson.
The man to usher in the next generation, and there lies the crux of it, me’thinks: you back-stabbing Reagan Democrats don’t necessarily have a problem with Joe Biden, he’s a white guy, a member of the club, a good ‘ol boy. Tip and Ronnie
I have been registered No Party Affiliation since we could. 1988, I think. I’m not pleased with it but I voted for Nixon … I wasn’t the only one, the Clintons were Young Republicans too; and I have voted for Republicans a number of times down through the years: city councilors, county commissioners, a couple of sheriffs and district attorneys, even a state treasurer. People I was acquainted with and confident in. The confidence I have in the Democratic Senators where I currently live as well as back home, one of whom I campaigned for. My Mickey Mouse votes were in the Reagan/Bush years, the Carter ratfuck ~ I have voted, regardless my lack of affiliation, Democrat, oft times under duress, since Clinton
I’ve been up the mountain, down the river: you’re not pulling wool over my eyes
The Republicans have openly declared the intent to End American Democracy and turn us into a NAZI Republic and with multiple well-financed third-party chaos agents mounting their own threat the Centrists, the Corporate Democrats, the Reagan Democrats … the Republican Democrats want to switch dicks in the middle of the screw!? Jerk the rug out from under the best we’ve seen in 60 years
Joe Biden is the man for the job today, Kamala Harris the woman for the job in the future. If you change that, if you stab Biden/Harris in the back, you’re no better than the NAZI Republicans, you are Republican, and you might as well just go ahead and vote for Trump because that is exactly what you’ll be doing
I’ll be writing in Mickey Mouse for every candidate from President to Assistant Dogcatcher in East Cupcake Idaho, voting yes and no on every ballot measure
Do not stab Joe Biden, Kamala Harris in the back; stab all of us in the back.
Thank you for this article. Im trying to reason with a friend in Dearborn Mich who has suddenly turned on Biden. Im trying to understand his logic on a single issue he and a group of his Arab Americans have with Biden but beg him to look at the bigger picture. Democracy needs calm heads to survive in America and voting for trump or even a “Protest Non of the Above” will keep MAGA movement alive in this country.
Why they think their cause would fare better under Trump is a mystery. More likely they’re stamping their feet and holding their breath til their faces turn blue. Truly childish.
This is a threatening and wildly offensive essay, telling me that if this is a general Democratic attitude then I want nothing to do with the Democratic Party. I hope however this is only an isolated extreme sentiment.
@ltr,
So you’re a Trump supporter?
There would be 16000 Palestinians, > 40% of them children alive today if USA said “no bombing urban areas” and no more C-17 delivering bomb kits….
I won’t vote for indiscriminate terror bombing.
@paddy,
Fascinating! And you know this counterfactual to be true, how?
16000 in today report.
Children count is average last week.
All photos are “thumping domicile rubble” to use slang.
IDF making like Bomber Harris, and the first week saw more than 50 C17 trips.
I was in MAC in1973 when we armed IDF with latest smart weapons to turn tide in Sinai, and Syria.
US supplied F-16 are dropping US supplier smart bonds.
@paddy,
I didn’t ask for a cite for how many have been killed, I’m asking for the evidence that if the USA said “no bombing urban areas,” no bombing would have occurred.
You don’t have any evidence for this. I don’t believe for a second that the US is responsible for Israeli military policy in Gaza. This is just a transparent way to shift blame from Israel to the Biden Administration.
US does not link the use of its weapons to tactics that limit the civilian slaughter.
@Joel; If we arm them, knowing what they’re going to do with the arms, we’re complicit.
@Jack,
Yes, I know that. But you miss the point. paddy types: “There would be 16000 Palestinians, > 40% of them children alive today if USA said “no bombing urban areas””
There isn’t an atom of evidence that 106K Palestinians would be alive today if the US demanded there be no bombing in urban areas. The US does not dictate Israeli military policy in Gaza. To assert otherwise is just a transparent way to shift blame from Israel to the Biden Administration.
@Joel;
I don’t think I missed the point. Paddy seemed to be arguing that the U.S. could have used the leverage of its continuing armament supply to Israel to get them to stop the bombing. He might be wrong on the number not killed but not the fact that a lot of people would not have been killed had the threat of withdrawing aid been made with any credibility.
@jack,
” . . . had the threat of withdrawing aid been made with any credibility” is a counterfactual. paddy’s speculation is just that, speculation. I don’t believe the US is responsible for military policy in Gaza. This is just a transparent way to shift blame from Israel to the Biden Administration.
Blame Israel for Israel’s actions. All this speculation about woulda, coulda is just so much bafflegab.
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/13/world/reagan-demands-end-to-attacks-in-a-blunt-telephone-call-to-begin.html
August 13, 1982
REAGAN DEMANDS END TO ATTACKS IN A BLUNT TELEPHONE CALL TO BEGIN
By Bernard Weinraub
Chronology of Crisis
About 6 A.M. (midnight Wednesday, New York time) – Israelis begin bombing west Beirut. As raids continue, Lebanon’s Prime Minister, Shafik al-Wazzan, tells Philip C. Habib, the special American envoy, that the talks cannot continue.
2 P.M. (8 A.M., New York time) – The Israeli Cabinet meets. A message from President Reagan arrives, expressing ”outrage” and, reportedly threatening to halt the Habib mission. The Cabinet decides to end the raids and order new ones only if they are ”essential.”
4 P.M. (10 A.M., New York time) – President Reagan tries for hour to call Mr. Begin but cannot get through.
4:50 P.M. (10:50 A.M., New York time) – King Fahd of Saudi Arabia calls Mr. Reagan.
5 P.M. (11 A.M., New York time) – A new cease-fire goes into effect in west Beirut.
5:10 P.M. (11:10 A.M., New York time) – Mr. Reagan reaches Mr. Begin for 10-minute telephone call.
5:40 P.M. (11:40 A.M., New York time) – Mr. Begin calls President Reagan to say that a ”complete cease-fire” had been ordered.
WASHINGTON – President Reagan expressed ”outrage” to Prime Minister Menachem Begin today over Israel’s latest bombing raids in west Beirut, saying the attacks had resulted in ”needless destruction and bloodshed.” It was the sharpest statement by Mr. Reagan since the start of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon nine weeks ago.
Larry Speakes, the deputy White House press secretary, said Mr. Reagan had been ”shocked” by the Israeli attacks on west Beirut. Mr. Reagan voiced his feelings directly to Mr. Begin, according to Mr. Speakes.
Mr. Speakes said the Israeli action had threatened the efforts by Philip C. Habib, the special American envoy, to end the fighting in Lebanon and arrange for the withdrawal of the 6,000 to 9,000 Palestinian guerrillas trapped in west Beirut. In the last 48 hours, Mr. Habib’s peace plan seemed on the verge of success….
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/13/world/reagan-demands-end-to-attacks-in-a-blunt-telephone-call-to-begin.html
August 13, 1982
REAGAN DEMANDS END TO ATTACKS IN A BLUNT TELEPHONE CALL TO BEGIN
By Bernard Weinraub
‘Massive Military Action’
”The President expressed his outrage over this latest round of massive military action,” Mr. Speakes said early this afternoon. ”He emphasized that Israel’s action halted Ambassador Habib’s negotiations for a peaceful resolution of the Beirut crisis when they were at the point of success. The result has been more needless destruction and bloodshed.”
Mr. Speakes, asked whether Mr. Reagan had shouted at the Prime Minister, declined to comment. Mr. Speakes read a White House statement to reporters after a morning in which President Reagan sent an urgent message to Mr. Begin, then spoke twice with the Israeli leader and received a call from King Fahd of Saudi Arabia over the crisis.
U.S. Officials Are Stunned
American officials – including, apparently, Mr. Reagan – were stunned by not only the scale of the Israeli air attacks but also the possibility that Mr. Habib’s peace proposals could fall apart because of them.
As the Israeli attacks took place, State Department officials said, Lebanon’s Prime Minister, Shafik al-W@azzan, told Mr. Habib in Beirut that the talks could not continue under the ”blackmail and pressure” of the raids.
”Habib couldn’t continue the talks,” one State Department official said. ”The point was conveyed that he simply couldn’t go on. The talks had come to a halt. It was impossible to continue to play our role in these circumstances.”
Unusually Blunt Statement ….
So you’re a Trump supporter?
[ There we have the scurrilous trick Democrats have evidently learned from Joseph McCarthy. Immediately discredit any person with whom you cannot agree and cannot intimidate.
Really scurrilous. ]
@ltr,
So is that a yes or a no?
Just attacking me for the question is a trick evidently learned from Joseph McCarthy; immediately discredit any person with whom you cannot agree and cannot intimidate by accusing them of what you yourself are doing.
ltr:
No, it is a complaint by Ten Bears. A complaint that Democrats are spineless and only think of themselves rather than the impact they have.
@Bill,
Well, *some* Democrats* maybe. Not this one.
I was raised (in upstate NY, in the 50’s & 60’s, very GOP oriented) in a GOP household.
By the time I was in college, I had become more enlightened, to the extent that I was a registered ‘independent’ & felt pretty liberal. (That was ok, because Nelson Rockefeller, NY’s GOP guv’nah was also ‘pretty liberal’.)
I did not register as a Dem until Biden was nominated, but I had at least turned very anti-GOP before that. Particularly for Obama, but by then I was 60.
I remain a centrist. I will not ever vote for another GOP candidate again, until/unless they regain their sanity. BUT, the American political system remains 2-party oriented, and it is almost impossible to renovate either party. Fortunately we have one that is still effective at governing. But this is far from healthy.
However, it appears to me that what DID happen over the past 50 years, is that the Dem party, which had a northern wing & a southern (or southern & midwestern) wing, and that faction of the party in effect absorbed & displaced the entire GOP, pushing whatever moderates were left into what had been the northern wing. And we are still struggling with that, mightily.
Personally, I find Mr Ten Bears very cranky.
@Fred,
The modern Democratic Party is the conservative party in America (in the sense of a Rockefeller conservative). The modern GOP is an extremist right-wing party. There is no significant liberal party in America today.
I believe the Dem Party is also the liberal/progressive party, by default.
We only get to have two parties, really. Either one can morph itself into something different, or one can cleave into two & absorb what had been the ‘other’ one. That’s all we get.
If you are suggesting that the modern Dem party resembles the ‘Rockefeller’ wing of the GOP, this is only partly correct. It is ostensibly true that the Dems absorbed the Rockefeller faction when they exited the ‘Dixiecrat’ GOP. But the Dem party is still the Big Tent party. The GOP is more of a pup tent. The political base of the Dem party is verrrry broad, and constantly at war with itself. As it is, half the US electorate can’t stand to be in either party. But to have a voice in American politics, in national elections anyway, you have to be in one party or the other one.
@Fred,
You have nothing to teach me about the US party system. I’m 68 years old and have voted in every election I could since I turned 18.
I agree that the Democratic Party is the “big tent” party these days, but it has been consistently *governing* as the old Rockefeller Republicans. There’s nothing “liberal” or “progressive” about the modern Democratic Party. Yes, those terms are used by the main stream media to describe the party, but that doesn’t make them accurate.
The fact that folks like AOC & ‘the Squad’ and Pramila Jayapal are vigorous participants (thank goodenss) in the Dem party means that it is ALSO the Liberal/Progressive party.
Realistically, we have to support Biden, because otherwise we are going to get Trump.
@Joel; what do you consider progressive? Defund the police? Open borders? Bear in mind, as I’m sure you are aware, that the Democrats are not able to do everything they prefer due to the makeup of Congress and the Court. Thus, Progressive or whatever they are, they can only do what the balance of power allows.
@Jack,
Defund the police is just a slogan. Progressive policy would be demilitarizing the police and returning them to their original mission of serve and protect.
Open borders is just a rightwing conspiracy theory. We don’t have open borders now, and nobody, aside from a few libertarians, advocates open borders. Progressive policy is a sensible immigration policy and better ways to deal with political and climate change refugees.
Hope that helps.
Think with the rather andvanced date the only person who might replace President Biden in next year’s election is the Vice President. She’s #2 on the depth chart and this is not the NFL with game day elevations from the practice squad. Phillips joined the race more than a month ago and if he had been joined by a few others pre-Thanksgiving, I likely would consider this an open race. But no one else moved. The Democratic nomination process is over, but if #1 can’t get to the general, it’ll be #2.
I would take that bet; have seen too many Democratic Party leaders calling for ABK if Biden demures.
No expectation that he will, of course, and maybe their calculation changes if she were the incumbent by late second quarter of next year. (Again, not the hope or the expectation.)
But the gaggle of people (influential Democrats, not the Twitterati) attacking that other KH, and pushing the inadequate (Pritzker) or the venal (Newsom) as “necessary” if it can’t be Amtrak Joe are far worse for 2024 than those who, rightly, believe that Biden supporting their relatives being killed is a step too far.
I might (if I don’t have something else to, if it’s not raining, if…) bother to vote for Biden. If he’s not on the ballot and anyone other than Kamala Harris is, I’m not going to waste my time supporting a political party that would rather Yell About How FUCKING NOBLE They Are (see Steve Owen and Jackd above) while giving no one a reason to vote FOR their candidate.
@Ken,
You are indeed a fortunate man. I can’t recall the last time I voted *for* a candidate in a national election. My choices has *always* been between the lesser of two evils. But I also realize the not voting is a vote for the greater evil, and that I cannot do. YMMV.
Sure, it’s hypothetically possible to bypass Harris. But if others wanted to join the campaign, Phillips opened that door and no one else walked through it. In the unforeseen event that Biden can’t make it to the general, why risk anything other than “starting” your #2? The election is likely to be all about Trump anyway, just like 2020. Now if Trump doesn’t make it, well then Democrats will be scrambling if Biden drops out.
while obviously not supporting Trump, i have issues with most of the IRA, & think that the planet would be better off repealing most of what they’ve passed… yesterday morning i woke up to someone touting Biden’s grid building on NPR, so i wrote the show…
I am absolutely freaked out by the Biden administration’s long distance high voltage transmission approach to connecting renewables to the grid…
[ Developing an ultra-high voltage transmission line system is essential for large scale construction of renewable energy production systems. Simply look to China and this will become clear. Look to China…
I have many references and will supply them if you are interested. ]
ltr, i am assuming that one’s reason for building renewable energy production systems is to forestall the worst effects of greenhouse gas induced climate change….if that is the case, one better be sure that the steps one takes to reduce emissions don’t result in more emissions than you intend to avoid, and preferably by a lot, since those steps fore-run your preferred outcome…
if they don’t, you might as well just save yourself the trouble, burn coal, and say the hell with it, because that is what you’ll face…
If Biden is ‘stabbed in the back’, then we get to have Trump back, on his Revenge Tour.
It won’t be pleasant.
What I want to know is, did those who voted such that Biden became the nominee for the Party not think that age would become an issue? Did they not consider his age as a ready made electability issue for the opposition or the media? Did they not consider how old he would be for his second run?
I did think about it.
And if not at that time, then why now?
The only issue I have with aging for a candidate is if the aging candidate stays stuck living in a past that those of the younger generation have no connection too other than older family members.
Biden has shown he is living in the present of all ages. Or at least he knows what he grew up with is not what the younger citizens are living.
Perhaps since both candidates are sooooo old we should just plan on moving to Canada a.s.a.p.
I have some ancestral connections there, so maybe they’ll have to let me & Mrs Fred in?
Yep . . .
Biden has shown he is living in the present of all ages. Or at least he knows what he grew up with is not what the younger citizens are living.
I agree with you Daniel. He is actually trying to fix the issues. I am pleased with what he has done economically.
It’s time for the Dems to call their bluff.
Dems should endorse bolstering border security.
Ukraine Aid Falters in Senate as Republicans Insist on Border Restrictions
NY Times – Dec 5
Legislation to send military aid to Ukraine and Israel was on the brink of collapse, after a briefing devolved into a screaming match one day before a critical test vote in the Senate.
Trump: I won’t be a dictator if I become US president again
Reuters – late last night
Does anyone know what the Republicans are demanding on the border issues?
Going back to basics, I’m not sure what is meant here by “stab in the back” or how it is supposed to come about (if it does). It’s a good idea in persuasive arguments to establish pretty concretely what you mean and this contribution doesn’t. So what would keep Biden from being the nominee? For all the historic complaints about DNC rigging things, the primaries will select nearly all the delegates – way more than needed to get the nomination. Phillips is clear about what he thinks is Biden’s major drawback. I don’t think that’s a stab in the back….it’s totally upfront. Williamson likewise is clear about her reasons for seeking the nomination. They probably won’t win, so I presume that this fear of a stab in the back must be something other than the series of primary elections next year. But what could it be? Not clear at all. “Stab in the back” relating to a head of government office makes more sense in a parliamentary system where that head of government is not specifically directly elected to the position.
“I’m not sure what is meant here by “stab in the back” or how it is supposed to come about (if it does)….”
A very important concern.
The expression or accusation “stab in the back” came to widespread modern use in Germany after WWI. The Nazis Party accused German Jews of stabbing Germany in the back and causing the loss of the war and resultant misery in Germany. The stab in the back imagery actually comes from a German legend.
The expression was an initial reason why I found the essay so offensive. For Germans after WWI, the expression became a terrifying rationale for anti-Semitism.
“I’m not sure what is meant here by “stab in the back” or how it is supposed to come about (if it does)….”
Interestingly and sadly, Paul Krugman recently wrote a New York Times column using the fearsome offensive expression of Joseph McCarthy “the enemy within.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/opinion/columnists/us-power-republican-party.html
October 16, 2023
The Strange Decline of the Pax Americana
By Paul Krugman
Yes, the Pax Americana is in decline. But the problem isn’t lack of toughness at the top. It’s the enemy within.
“I’m not sure what is meant here by “stab in the back” or how it is supposed to come about (if it does)….”
Accusing an entire social class of being an enemy within or stabbing in the back, is frightening and harmful.
Thank you for this comment: “I’m not sure what is meant here by “stab in the back” or how it is supposed to come about (if it does)….”
Glad you enjoyed it! As I said, it feels like a very basic starting point for such a discussion. Just my opinion but Biden has less personal claim to political loyalty than most Presidents. The Democratic Party, particularly in 6 or so states, moved heaven and earth to get votes in 2020 and would have done so had the nominee been any of the other candidates, ex-Sanders. So the concept of “stabbing in the back” is even weaker than in other possible circumstances. But it seems clear that there is no serious effort at all to keep him from the nomination. The writer of this article seems really angry that some Democrats have even thought he could be a dud candidate
Stab in the back and Enemy within point us to a class of betrayers who need to be driven away. The expressions are frightening but with no justification. The Paul Krugman would no understand this is shockingly sad.
Correcting my sentences:
“Stab in the back” and “Enemy within” point us to a class of betrayers who need to be driven away. The expressions are frightening but with no justification. That Paul Krugman would not understand this is shockingly sad.
At this point with access to the 2024 Democratic primaries nearly entirely closed, the most persuasive (to me) hypothesis for a non-Biden nominee comes with Biden’s consent. The idea is that he has already decided to retire, but has an agreement with one replacement candidate to hang around until the primary voting is over – or nearly so – to preclude the possibility that different candidates somehow have enough time to muck it up by appealing to voters (almost a dirty trick in this hypothesis). We’re his health deteriorate, that could possibly compel him to withdraw I suppose, but guys like Axlerod opining can’t force him to do anything.
Biden has said very recently that if Trump were not running, then he might not have gone after re-election. That probably can be considered ‘TMI’ by more than a few voters.
Two other Dems are running for the 2024 ballot.
Marianne Williamson, a self-help author and former spiritual adviser to Oprah Winfrey, is running for a second time.
Dean Phillips, a moderate Democrat elected to the House in 2018, has few major policy disagreements with President Biden and has supported his agenda in Congress, but argues that Mr. Biden’s age and low approval ratings mean the party should nominate someone else.
Who’s Running for President in 2024?
NY Times – Dec 4
AB poster Ten Bears was cross-posted here with
Warning to Democrats: stab Biden in the back, you will not enjoy my support
“I will write in Mickey Mouse for every candidate from President to Assistant Dogcatcher in East Cupcake Idaho, vote yes and no on every ballot measure” …
I guess that means if the Dem convention dumps Biden in favor of one or the other of the two people above who want the job (or even someone else), Ten Bears will be mightily pissed.
He ranks Biden up there with FDR & LBJ. I am inclined to agree, but I also like BHO.
The ‘stab in the back’ metaphor is only that. Should not be taken literally. It is usually considered an allusion to the assassination of Julius Caesar, but he supposedly was stabbed (many times) in the front, literally. And it comes up very often when something disloyal is done to someone perceived as heroic.
There are of course also several independent or potential third-party candidates in the mix, perhaps to include Liz Cheney, who will possibly disrupt Electoral College proceedings in 2024 and prevent the absolute majority necessary for a ‘major’ candidate to be chosen, throwing the choice to the House of Representatives.
Liz Cheney won’t run for president if it helps Donald Trump
CBS News – about 9 hours ago
says she’ll back “pro-Constitution” candidates “no matter their party”