Online Voting
Online Voting
Yes, a wonderful innovation!!! No, I had not heard of this before, although maybe somebody reading this had encountered it. So, where is this fabulous innovation being adopted? Why Mother Russia! So polls showed the United Russia Party that supports Vladimir Putin getting only 30% support for the Duma election that just happened. But while I have not seen specific numbers, it is my understanding that they have been reelected as not only the majority party in the Duma, but with a supermajority over 3/4 that allows them to mess with the Constitution as they please and pretty much do anything else with little fuss that their leader wants!
Of course, with one serious rival, Nemtsov, dead from being shot on a bridge in Moscow, and another, Navalny, in jail after an attempt to poison him to death, and the voting app his supporters were touting being cut off by Apple and Google at Putin’s request, well, this left a rather weak opposition, with the Yabloko Party a shadow of its never-large self, and with the Communist Party still Number Two, and apparently getting feistier than in the past as about the only serious possible source of opposition. But neither of them or any others got too far.
But, just to make sure, there have been widespread reports not only of ballot stuffing, the old-fashioned way to do these things, but now this miracle of online voting. So, at a minimum in one widely publicized contest in Moscow where the main opponent was a Communist, the on-site votes had him well ahead. But then the online votes came in, and, wow, they were overwhelmingly and in large numbers for the United Russia candidate. Apparently, this happened in many districts. Such a miracle!
A funny thing is that those complaining about this sort of look like Trumpists complaining about mail-in ballots in the US, which has led GOP-led legislatures to move to restrict such voting, as it is widely perceived that Dems use it (or did in 2020 anyway) more than GOPs, for various reasons. It was not always that way everywhere, with Florida, in particular, having a long tradition of numerous older GOP voters using the mail-in, leaving the GOPsters there a bit less sure about going after it. So the Putinistas can argue, well, this is just like the US.
Of course, there are two problems. One is that there is no obvious reason in any of these districts why online voters would have such different views than on-site ones, whereas we know of numerous reasons in the US why the mail-in voters were more likely to be Dems. The other is that there seems to be no record of or way to check up on any of these online voters. Who are they? How many times did they vote? Who was counting them.? All I can say is that this seems to be quite the innovation for a ruling party that wants to hold an election with at least a nominal opponent participating, while guaranteeing a solidly favorable outcome, even in the face of polls suggesting this was not so likely.
Barkley Rosser
I guess it saves work. Making up ballot counts for paper ballots is clearly much less efficient.
Barkley,
It is not clear to me whether you favor on-line voting in the US but not in Russia.
I think it would be better for us if we clearly rejected on-line voting in the US as well as Russia…though there isn’t much we can do about the Russians.
This is partly because as you point out on-line is clearly not transparent and subject to manipulation by parties unknown, but mostly the local government. But also because out across the board rejection on non-transparent voting might gain us some credibility among those voters who may not agree with us about the parties and issues.
I would, timidly, suggest this also applies to mail-in voting, which again is subject to a lack of transparency. I would like help thinking up a solution for those who really can’t make it to the polls. My suggestion “in the first place” is that citizens themselves can arrange help to transport (and register…but that is a slightly different topic) voters with real difficulties. Depending on the size of the problem, I might suggest “home, or hospital, visits” by a small group of vetted witnesses, but I don’t know how realistic that might be. Or perhaps those who really can’t get to the polls could mail-in, with careful legal trail-of-evidence procedures.
Anyway, there is a way to do this without scaring hell out of the people we were gleefully telling for the last few years they were about to become a permanent minority..or at least not giving them a colorable reason to yell fraud.
paper ballot in a locked box in front of witnesses. counted in front of same witnesses. results per precinct (polling station) electronically transmitted to central counting (this is verifiable..the precincts know their own results) for the benefit of TV news and people who just can’t wait to know the winner.
Meanwhile, we need to find ways to get around the “voter restrictions” put in place by the current party of “taking over the government.” i.e. work with marginal voters to get them registered and to the polls. feed and water them at the long lines. arrage for platooning and “holding places for” people who need a break from standing in line. and also defending them from goons. and cops.
my guess is none of this will be done. we’d rather sit and complain than actually DO anything.
and yes I know something about the difficulties of actually doing anything.
Coberly:
If you are issued a mail-in ballot in Michigan, you are added to a list. The list is on the table of those checking in voters and ID in the state of Michigan. If you do a mail-in ballot and also try to vote in person, they will see you were issued a mail-in ballot and only issue you a “provisional” ballot to vote. They may do this because you messed up you mail-in ballot. You can not vote twice in Michigan.
In Anthem Michigan, the votes for a Republican were added to the Democrat column. It was caught by the Republican County Clerk and corrected. It occurred because the Clerk did not do a software update. It was caught because they reviewed the voter rolls and found the discrepancy and also what caused it.
Both are manual efforts to certify the accuracy of a vote(s). The system and the manual check on the system works.
@run,
Same in MO. If you request a mail-in, then show up in person, they cancel the mail-in. There are states that have done mail-in for years without problems. There’s no evidence that mail-in ballots lend themselves to voting fraud, that’s just a myth. I see no reason to pander to myth-mongerers.
Joel
The reason to pander to myth mongers is that they convince a lot of voters that mail in voting is subject to fraud, and it causes a lot of problems for the rest of us. Moreover, when the Republicans control the mail in voting, you can be sure they will find ways to make it work for them. Or, the lack of transparency will cause myth mongers from our side to emerge.
People who can’t see into the future are condemned to relive the past, only maybe from the other side. People who can’t see that even though they are absolutely right about the eternal justice of their views, their unshakable refusal to see the unintended consequencs of their views is causing problmems for themselves… are causing problems for themselves.
Joel:
What is interesting is the problems occurring were in Republican Counties and Republican managed urban areas (Royal Oak). The problem(s) was (were) discovered and corrected as there were backup systems which identified the issues. The other reason in Anthem was having more Democrat votes than Republican votes in a county with more registered Republicans. The Clerk recognized the issue, updated the system which was not done in the beginning, and reran the data. In the urban area a Democratic clerk recognized the issue in Royal Oak and called his counterpart notifying them of their issue. Problem corrected and the vote was affirmed as being correct.
The corrections were broadcasted publicly and the explanations mostly accepted. There are always naysayers who wish to make things bigger than what they are. Arizona is one example of a lie being blown-up. The issues were minor. Michigan difference for trump and Biden was 150,000. It was not even close.
The Detroit supposed issues were widely explained.
coberly,
You are right that I explicitly did not say it, but I thought it was obvious my view.
No, I do not support online voting in the US either for exactly the reason it seems to be bad in Russia. I support snail mail voting.
Bark;ey
I have learned over a lifetime or worrying about it that nothing is as obvious to the reader as it is to the writer.
Mail-in voting works fine as far as I know now and where. I am not so sure it will work fine when the Republicans are running it. And even now, the lack of transparency invites claims of fraud.
Run
It seems to work in Oregon, too. But it is still not transparent, and causes the people who don’t trust the government to cry foul. And the people who live in states that are governed by..let’s call them Republicans for now…will find ways to make them dishonest. Trust me on this.
Meanwhile, how about dem cowboys! the one’s who steer cutting horses with whips.
pictures at 11.
[how is this on topic? the issue is trusting the government you have, not the government you wish you had.]
speaking of split reins, after posting the pictures, i googled split reins to check on myself. no mention of using split reins to turn cutting horses by swinging them like a whip.
seems to me those cowboys down in Del Rio were having you on.
speaking of talking to myself.
Now, why did I have to say that three times, four times?
Of the three people who responded to my first comment, not one of them got beyond refuting what they thought was me agreeing with the myth mongers.
Not one of them addressed the fact that the lack of transparency gives the myth mongers the food they need to monger with.
Not one of them addressed the possibility that when the bad guys get into power and control the safeguards of mail in voting, they will guard that the results are in their favor,
oh, yes, being for something because the bad guys are against it is an effective tool for crowd control and clear thinking…as we have seen. my judo teacher would be proud.