Here I am using what is the journalistic definition of a “recession,” also used in many nations although not officially in the US, where these things are determined ex post by an NBER committee. Anyway, that “journalistic” definition is that there be two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth. Today in the Washington Post I saw a story on global carbon emissions, which are very closely correlated with GDP, if not perfectly. Anyway, it appears that global carbon emissions hit bottom on April 7 and have been slowly rising since then (not sure about US separately, although US somewhat behind most other nations on the covid curve and so on the economic impact as well). I note that April 7 is one week into the second quarter.
This means it is very likely that at the global level we shall see positive economic growth in the second quarter, basically rising since the end of the first week of the quarter, although due to reporting lags in many countries this will not show up as positive growth in the data until later, possibly by the end of the month. This growth is slow, but it is positive, definitely not a V.
So, assuming this slow growth continues,the world will have seen a massive shock in the first quarter, with most of that in a single month, March, the largest such short term shock in recorded history by far. But it looks that it may have hit bottom quite quickly, then to turn into a slow recovery shortly after the end of the first quarter. First quarter is certainly going to be negative, but second looks very well like it might be positive, at least at the global level, hence, not technically quite a “recession” according to this journalistic definition.
What about Jan & Feb. Are you really saying that May and June will be better than Jan & Feb were?
Lol, “global carbon”. That is why mass layoffs are happening detached from the shutdowns. Whoever wrote that article needs fired.
Reason,
Of course not. The issue is growth from quarter to quarter. There was slow growth in Jan-Feb, in the US (Feb was probably negative in many other nations and this post is about global conditions, not US ones, which are lagging), but then this huge plunge in March and into early April. It will be a long time before any economy gets back to its Jan or Feb level, even China’s, which is ahead of the pack.
The issue is growth from quarter. There was slow growth in Jan, whatever in Feb, then massive plunge in March, making first quarter negative cmopared to Q4 19. But if growth in second quarter is positive, even if it gets nowhere near getting any economy back to Jan or Feb levels, it is positive compared to the first quarter, and there is no “journalistic recession.” That is the point.
Bert,
What are you talking about? Obviously the layoffs and the reduction of carbon emissions are both due to the shutdowns. Big deal. Do you have a comprehensible point here? This is just gibberish you have posted.
My point is the junk bond bubble has burst triggering defaults. It happened to my company and they laid off everybody from sales reps to contractors due to permanently reduced demand. Before hand was a dumb bubble that was showing signs of strain even by the end of 2019.
Its happening over:
Oil
Software(me)
Auto(more like pushed retirements, but similar effect)
CRE(direct foreign investment cries up, bye bye construction)
Jumbo loans have dried up in Cali(which was the source of the bogus “rebound”” last year) .
for 2nd quarter GDP to be positive, goods and services produced over April May and June would have to be greater than those produced over January, February and March…it’s hard to see how that can happen…we barely had a half month of real recession in those first quarter months..
coincidentially, here’s some 2nd quarter forecasts from Bill McBride:
Q2 GDP Forecasts: Probably Around 40% Annual Rate Decline –Important: GDP is reported at a seasonally adjusted annual rate (SAAR). So a 40% Q2 decline is around 9% decline from Q1 (SA). From Merrill Lynch:
From Goldman Sachs:
From the NY Fed Nowcasting Report
And from the Altanta Fed: GDPNow
No, rjs, what would need to be the case is for the GDP to be higher on June 30 than on March 31. Thiss is less likely for the US economy but might very well be the case for the world economy as a whole and almost certainly for the Chinese economy. Again, what triggered this post is the data on global carbon emissions, which seem to have bottomed out arounf April 7, a week into the second quarter. To the extent those closely correlate with GDP, the latter may well have been growing since only about a week into the second quarter, with it in that case certain to be higher on June 30 than on March 31.
Yes, there was growth in Jan. and Feb., at least in the US, but the plunge in March was very hard and deep.
Barkley, reported GDP is not a measure at a point in time, it’s an aggregate of goods and services production over a quarter…the change in private inventories is the only GDP metric that is measured from the end of the quarter to the end of the quarter…
emissions and their associated economic activity may well be greater on June 30 than on March 31, but that will not matter one iota to the quarterly change in our national product…
Barkley I don’t understand your point. I thought we were talking about the first time derivative of total quarterly GDP. In which case the level in May and June compared with the level January and February very much matters if March and April are similar. Are we in fsct talking about the second derivative?
To be clear I think it is perfectly reason to expect Jan-Mar to be below Oct-Dec and Apr-Jun to be lower still and I find it hard to inderstand why you would think it wouldn’t be. Where are we not understanding one another.
OK, we are in the ozone here, but if in fact GDP is correlated with carbon emissions, then it bottomed out globally at the beginning of April. That makes it very easy for Apil-June to be abe Jan-March, but still well below Oct-Dec. Again, at least in the US the sharpest drop was in March, although we clearly continued to drop in April, somewhat delayed after most of the rest of the world, so US might still have April-June lower than Jan-March, even in much of the rest of the world April-June is above Jan-March, although probably not be a whole lot.
i’m just going to add a quick illustration of why turning 2nd quarter GDP positive will be so difficult….this morning the BEA released the Personal Income and Outlays report for April;
https://www.bea.gov/data/income-saving/personal-income
table 7 in the “full release” has the monthly inflation adjusted metrics for PCE, which input directly into GDP (which one can see in the GDP’s “Key source data and assumptions” excel file at https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product) and which account for 69.5% of GDP…
in 2012 dollars, annualized PCE was at 13,469.6 in January, 13,487.8 in February, 12,585.1 in March, and 10,922.9 in April…(the decline in April from the 1st quarter average was at a 52.8% annual rate) …for the change in second quarter PCE to turn out positive, May and June would have to overcome that April deficit…more specifically, May and June real PCE rate would have to average more than 14,309.75 in those 2012 dollars that the BEA uses to compute GDP for PCE to make a positive contribution to the 2nd quarter…