An Op Ed on Race Relations in the NY Times
The NY Times has an op ed entitled Can My Children Be Friends with White People?. (Dan here …Link corrected) I think this is the most interesting excerpt:
…I will teach my boys to have profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible. When they ask, I will teach my sons that their beautiful hue is a fault line. Spare me the platitudes of how we are all the same on the inside. I first have to keep my boys safe, and so I will teach them before the world shows them this particular brand of rending, violent, often fatal betrayal.
The author, Ekow N. Yankah, according to the Times is a professor at Yeshiva University’s Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law. For an expert on criminal law, and one who cares about his sons’ safety, he seems surprisingly uninformed about what he termed “violent, often fatal betrayal.” I sincerely hope whatever other advice he is giving his sons doesn’t get them hurt. They shouldn’t suffer for his ignorance. And speaking of ignorance, the rest of the op ed is a tour de force for the proposition that if a person cannot or will not understand basic facts about their own field, they aren’t a reliable guide to much else either.
Regardless… this is no different than the views of far right white people who teach their kids they cannot have Black friends. Fortunately, I doubt that the NY Times would publish that sort of garbage unironically. But it isn’t any better that the NY Times published this one.
Note to the NY Times: this is how I believe one should discuss race.
And I say it’s all about economics. If the black population of Chicago was paid commensurately with what the consumer would really be willing to pay — if $10/hr jobs paid $20/hr thanks to collective bargaining and the average person wielded the dominant political power like the do in, say, Germany thanks to high union density — then all these problem with over-policing just to take one example would fade, fade away.
you really have to work on your links
Not real interested in a link to the F-35 from 2014
Dan here….from Mike
Apologies. I am at the office and cannot correct the link (first one in the post I just put up) notes by EMichael. It should be:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/opinion/sunday/interracial-friendship-donald-trump.html
Any chance either of you can correct it and post a comment with an apology for my mistake?
Thanks.
Mike
I avoid making friends with deer because I don’t want them thinking that humans can be trusted. The next one they meet may be trying to kill them.
Not sure how this applies since if an author is too lazy to tell me either what the article says or what he says about it, I am too lazy to click links.
When you create a racist nation it has a strong tendency to perpetuate itself and become more-so. That the minority will take steps to defend and protect itself is not without strong merit.
coberly,
My mistake. I figured that by stating the title and the excerpt, it would have been obviously what the piece was about. Apologies if I misled you into believing the whole thing might be about a new way to solve coupled sets of nonlinear differential equations rather than race relations.
Longtooth,
I’d be a lot more inclined to believe this was a nation with self-perpetuating racism if the author’s evidence (i.e., white people fatally betraying Black people) tended to match crime statistics.
Or if the author behaved as if he believed what he wrote. For example, as a result of having grown up abroad, I had the opportunity earlier in my career to work abroad for a time. So some years ago, when I was on the job market, I sniffed around for more foreign job opportunities. My wife had me take myself out of the running for a position in a country in which it would make perfect sense to hire me (due to language and culture experience plus a very close fit with my professional experience) because we weren’t certain it would allow us a safe environment for our child to grow up. Similarly, there are places in the US where I wouldn’t move for fear that it might be detrimental to my child’s well being.
I find it interesting that Mr. Yankah doesn’t act according to his stated beliefs.
Dan,
Thanks.
Kimel
I guess my mistake too. I was suggesting ways you could make your case more effectively.
I knew you were talking about race, but you didn’t give me any reason to believe clicking your links would be worth my time.
coberly
You don’t think its a big deal that the NY Times sees fit to publish an op ed that suggests that people of one racial group should not be friends with people of another racial group?
Mr. Kimel,
That’s not what the op-ed said at all, and your clear, obvious, and intentional misrepresentation of what the op-ed said is strong evidence of your intent to misstate the realities to defend your own personal belief system.
“… .an op ed that suggests that people of one racial group should not be friends with people of another racial group”.
Longtooth,
You state:
As quoted above:
Since I am intentionally misrepresenting the op-ed, explain what you think this quote means. Because unless there’s some between-the-lines meaning, this sounds like he feels “profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible.”
Seriously?
“I’d be a lot more inclined to believe this was a nation with self-perpetuating racism if the author’s evidence (i.e., white people fatally betraying Black people) tended to match crime statistics.”
White on black murder is the measuring stick?
good to know
“Black men are sentenced to far more time in prison than white men for committing similar crimes, according to a new report from the U.S. Sentencing Commission.
A report released last week from the USSC ― an independent agency of the U.S. judicial branch ― looked at federal prison sentences in the United States from Oct. 1, 2011, to Sept. 30, 2016, and found that black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than those of “similarly situated” white male offenders.
The commission also factored in offenders’ criminal histories to look at whether violence in offenders’ pasts could account for the racial disparities ― and found that it did not. Looking at 2016, the only year for which such data was available, the commission found that, after controlling for criminal history, black men still received 20.4 percent longer sentences than did white men.
This report’s findings match those of a previous USSC report from 2007 to 2011, which found a nearly 20 percent gap in sentences between black and white men. ”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-white-sentencing-criminal-justice-report_us_5a0f8295e4b0e97dffed66a0?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
“Marijuana is legal in Colorado — as long as you’re 21 or older. It’s still illegal for kids to possess, so juveniles are coming to dominate the marijuana arrests in Colorado. But another startling trend also has developed: Arrest rates have risen dramatically for young blacks and Latinos.
Ricky Montoya isn’t surprised that’s happening. He’s standing outside Courtroom 4F in Denver’s City and County Building, where he was just ordered to pay a $1,000 fine for his third marijuana possession offense.
“They probably look at us more different,” he says of police. “I don’t think they think that white people would smoke as much as we do.”
A Colorado Health Department survey found there wasn’t a huge racial difference in who smokes pot. But the marijuana arrest rate for white 10- to 17-year-olds fell by nearly 10 percent from 2012 to 2014, while arrest rates for Latino and black youths respectively rose more than 20 percent and more than 50 percent.”
https://www.npr.org/2016/06/29/483954157/as-adults-legally-smoke-pot-in-colorado-more-minority-kids-arrested-for-it
“While the economy continues to improve and wages are finally beginning to inch up for most Americans, African Americans are still being paid less than whites at every education level. As you can see from the chart below, while a college education results in higher wages—both for whites and blacks—it does not eliminate the black-white wage gap. African Americans are still earning less than whites at every level of educational attainment. A recent EPI report, Black-white wage gaps expand with rising wage inequality, shows that this gap persists even after controlling for years of experience, region of the country, and whether one lives in an urban or rural area. In fact, since 1979, the gaps between black and white workers have grown the most among workers with a bachelor’s degree or higher—the most educated workers. ”
I could post these things on a constant basis, but racism is all about whites committing crimes against minorities.
EMichael,
It is, when your reason to keep your kids from being friends with white kids is fear for your kids safety.
As to the sentencing disparities. I’ve covered this before. Several times. There are obviously confounding unobserved variables. Why do I say obviously? Well, simple. Let’s go over this for what may be the 985th time.
Assume Black people and white people are equally likely to offend. And assume Black people are punished more harshly per crime committed than white people. (I.e., they are more likely to be confronted by police, and when sentenced, they serve longer sentences for the same crime.)
The end result would be that predominantly Black neighborhoods would be safer than predominantly white neighborhoods. Assuming crime is bad for society and business, the same pattern should be evident with a host of other factors – disruption in schools, economic opportunity, etc.
As to pay differentials – are majors taken into account? Grades? Dificulty of coursework? SAT scores? Other factors that might differentiate between the quality of two competing workers? I’ve hired a fair number of people over time. “The same level of education” does not begin to be a good measure of anything. If, for instance, Asian Americans students are more likely study engineering than Black students, I would expect Asian Americans on average, to have higher incomes for the same level of education.
Mike:
You are correct. Minorities and African Americans have the same advantage as majority white America in the court system, in prison, on the job, whether there are gender differences, regardless of what neighborhood they are relegated to, what politics may impact them, etc. It is fact, story over. I am sure Dan and others would agree with you also.
Kimel said,
“The end result would be that predominantly Black neighborhoods would be safer than predominantly white neighborhoods. ”
This simply does not follow.
But neither does the EMichael and Longtooth proposition that the way to fight racism in America is to take down statures of Robert E Lee.
Mike
you said to me:
“You don’t think its a big deal that the NY Times sees fit to publish an op ed that suggests that people of one racial group should not be friends with people of another racial group?”
Actually has nothing to do with what I said. I said I didn’t think that offering links to what he said and what you said was a very effective way to get your point across. Actually it’s not even a good way to teach yourself to think clearly about what your point is.
run and coberly,
I didn’t say anything about Black people having the same advantages as white people in the court system or anywhere else. I simply stated this: if crime would otherwise be the same, and you punish Black criminals more harshly than you punish white criminals, you will end up less crime in predominantly Black neighborhoods. It is simple math. Take two neighborhoods with 100 people in each. Assume 10 criminals in each neighborhood. In one neighborhood, arrest 1 criminal and give him a 3 month sentence. In the other, arrest 9 criminals, execute 3 and lock the rest up for life. What exactly do you think happens to the crime rate in both areas? What’s the message that people who haven’t committed crimes but are potential criminals get in each neighborhood?
You have adopted a model of the world that requires that criminals and potential criminals do not react in any way to the likelihood or severity punishment. Personally, I happen to think criminals are human.
No, you never say such; but, you do subtlety suppose such is the case with your views on immigration and minorities. One word and from my experience in the criminal justice system and in prisons, nonsense. There is little evidence imprisonment or execution has as much an impact on crime as many surmise. The potential message is “I am still struggling to survive in this hell hole, they still have their thumb on me, and I no longer have anything to lose.
run,
Actually, if you take a pickpocket out of a given neighborhood and send him to prison, you can have 100% certainty that he isn’t going to be pickpocketing in his old neighborhood while he is imprisoned. If you execute him, the number of times he pickpockets after that is precisely zero.
As to the incentives that provides everyone else… well, its been my experience that drivers who are speeding (me included!!) slow down when they see a cop. It doesn’t matter whether they agree with speed laws or find them to be unjust.
Mike:
List the prisons and jails you have been right here and now. You list yours and I will list mine starting with level 4 going to level 1. I will also list what judges we appeared before in state and federal court including attorneys. One happens to be the Dean of the School of Law at Berkley. It does not work the way you think it does.
“But neither does the EMichael and Longtooth proposition that the way to fight racism in America is to take down statures of Robert E Lee.”
Cob, nice strawman.
It is one of the ways to stop supporting racism and treating racism like culture.
Kimel.
Read the article. As Run stated clearly, your thoughts are nonsense.
But one did stand out.
The grades thing is beyond belief nonsense.
Your slip is showing. Again.
EMichael,
Do you not have access to Google? I mean, have you pissed off Sergey Brin in some way so that Google won’t work for you? Like maybe, when you type in a question it spits out gibberish? I ask because it would have taken a fraction of the time that you spent typing in your indignant but predictably wrong comment to ask Google.
Here’s what came up first when I searched. From The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:
Mike
your “simple math” is crap. if you ever wonder how otherwise “smart people” can delude themselves into gross and inhuman error, study what you have said and see if you can imagine any way in which you might have skipped a few steps.
this is an exercise most people, smart or not, cannot do successfully if at all.
coberly and run,
That was in response to this comment of mine:
I admit, the only prison I’ve been to is a tourist trap off the coast of San Francisco and was deactivated before I was born. I also do my best to have as little involvement with the criminal justice system as I can.
But If the pickpocket is able to be simultaneously serving time in prison and out stealing, I’d love to hear how it happens. Without being overly snide, I suspect there’s a Nobel Prize in Physics in it for anyone who explains this one too.
I have heard of gang leaders who are able to call the shots from inside the Big House, but I am guessing those instances are few and far in between. I am also guessing if the gang leader is executed even that ability (i.e., calling shots from jail) drops to zero.
Kimel
that is not all of what you said. you have done this before: you say something preposterous. then, when called on it, you shift attention to PART of what you said that is arguably not preposterous.
you can get away with that crap in a magic show. but it’s a little hard to fool people who can look at what you said right in front of them. of course you CAN fool yourself. it’s easy if you try.
Coberly,
What did I leave out?
GPA?
Really?
Inane claptrap.
Man, you are a total ah.
(Sorry Run, I tried, but this man should not be allowed to talk)
EMike,
Ah…. now I understand your problem with search engines. Maybe someone can design one that only spits out answers that you like?