McConnell’s AHCA Kabuki
he McConnell Obamacare repeal and replace “discussion draft” is worse than I imagined possible even taking into account that it would be worse than I imagined possible. I fear he made sure it was horrible so moderate Senators could win staged battles and claim they had saved people (needless to say I am not the first to write of this possibility).
I guess a vox explainer is always useful and Sarah Kliff is very smart thorough and reliable.
The bill is surprisingly aweful in two ways. First it doesn’t slow the phasing out of the ACA Medicaid expansion over 7 years but rather does it in 3 (from 2021 through 2024). Several relatively non reactionary Republican senators stressed how important of 7 year phaseout was to them. Also the bill contains no additional funding to deal with the opioid addiction crisis. Many of those senators specifically proposed this increased funding.
I fear that this is all theater. That the so called moderates will get their 7 years and their opioid treatment funding and then vote yes. Not including them in the “discussion draf” will make this more dramatic, allow the self described moderates to claim credit, and give them cover.
The Senators in question are almost saying this is their price.
I will include phone numbers in case any reader is interested in calling to say he or she is not falling for it. All are from the very useful
https://www.trumpcaretoolkit.org/
The Senators include
Robert Portman of Ohio (202-224-3353) who wrote
This almost explicitly says his price is an extended Medicaid phaseout and, especially, money for treatment of opioid addiction.
Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia (202-224-6472 called senator Capito with the accent on the a not on the i as in the Italian word for understood)
She has a very strong position on increased opioid treatment funding. West Virginia (like Ohio) is hard hit by the epidemic.
Her web page includes
Earlier today, I posted a link to the health care discussion draft on my website for all West Virginians to read. Over the course of the next several days, I will review the draft legislation released this morning, using several factors to evaluate whether it provides access to affordable health care for West Virginians, including those on the Medicaid expansion and those struggling with drug addiction.
Which, again, is very clear. I want to mention that I guessed there was a press release similar to Portman’s before checking, and why, lo and behold, there is (it’s almost as if they coordinated).
Dean Heller of Nevada (202-224-6244 is another self described moderate (and up for election in 2018 and very vulnerable)
His web page has
“Throughout the health care debate, I have made clear that I want to make sure the rug is not pulled out from under Nevada or the more than 200,000 Nevadans who received insurance for the first time under Medicaid expansion. At first glance, I have serious concerns about the bill’s impact on the Nevadans who depend on Medicaid. I will read it, share it with Governor Sandoval, and continue to listen to Nevadans to determine the bill’s impact on our state. I will also post it to my website so that any Nevadans who wish to review it can do so. As I have consistently stated, if the bill is good for Nevada, I’ll vote for it and if it’s not – I won’t.”
Again quite clear. The phrase “the rug is not pulled” is almost explicit that slowly sliding it out from under them would be OK. The reference to Sandoval is important, as Sandoval is very popular in Nevada and signed a letter opposing the House AHCA and generally arguing for bipartisan compromise (so did Gov. Kasich of Ohio whom Portman didn’t mention).
update 3: This is interesting. John Ralston is a very highly respected expert on Nevadan politics. He tweeted
“I don’t think so. And will say he [Heller] votes No after consulting with @GovSandoval.”
replying to another top reporter, Ronald Brownstein, who tweeted “#AHCA reduces # covered by Medicaid in NV by 45%. #SenateHealthCareBill proposes > l/t cuts. Can @SenDeanHeller vote Y? @RalstonReports”
end update:
OK how about Lisa Murkowski (202-224-6665 only interested in voice mail from Alaskans) ?
Nothing yet. I actually find this promising. She might not have decided on the price of her vote.
Finally (for moderates for now) Susan Collins of Maine (202-224-2523) Nothing on the McConnell discussion draft yet. A lot on the Opioid crisis (very bad in Maine too). Also “bipartisan” is her favorite word. Actually the web page section on health looks OK. Her voting record doesn’t. Collins and Murkowski strongly support funding for Planned Parenthood. Neither have said they will vote no if the elimination of that funding stays in the bill (most likely they propose an amendment and it goes down 50-51 including Pence). I do not want to count on Senator Collins growing a spine.
update: Collins spoke with the press instead of having a staffer write a press release. Her comments as reported by Tierney Sneed are mildly interesting
Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) gave the Senate health care bill released Thursday a mixed review, but zeroed in on its major cuts to Medicaid as a potential problem for her.
She took issue with how the Senate bill, starting in 2025, used a rate of growth for federal funding for Medicaid that is significantly slower than the typical increases of costs for the program.
“I’m very concerned about the inflator that would be used in the out years for the Medicaid program,” she told reporters in the Capitol a few hours after the bill was released. “It’s lower than the cost of medical inflation and would translate into literally billions of dollars of cuts.”
She added that she was concerned about how the cuts would negatively affect rural hospitals or prompt states to restrict Medicaid eligibility.
This might amount to something. Unlike “pulling the rug out” Heller, Collins is talking about the long term and a huge amount of money. The ceiling on Medicaid spending amounts to a huge cut over 10 years. It is they key measure used to finance the bill’s tax cuts for the rich. Unlike the 3 year Medicaid extension phase out it can’t be fudged. The case for Heller, Capito, Portman Kabuki is strongly supported by the fact that they don’t specifically address the ceiling.
It is vital that people who had no problem before the ACA understand that they will have huge problems if the AHCA passes, because of the huge cuts of legacy (pre-ACA-expansion) Medicaid spending. The fact that Collins discusses this would be a hint that she might actually vote no (if she weren’t actually Senator Susan Collins (R-Maine) who always always caves).
end update:
update 2: Collins is stealing the stage. I think she is torturing us. She said she can’t vote for a bill which deprives tens of millions of health insurance (I’ll believe she can’t if she votes no and not before)
Sen Collins: “I cannot support a bill that is going to result in tens of millions of people losing their health insurance” via @MeetThePress pic.twitter.com/LCMuqBNU8C
— Bradd Jaffy (@BraddJaffy) June 22, 2017
ehd update 2:
Separately 4 right wing Senators said the McConnell draft is too close to the ACA: Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Ron Johnson (Wisconsin) and Rand Paul (Kentucky).
I think Paul might really mean it. He is extreme and resistent to party discipline. Also the ACA has benefited Kentucky enormously. Blocking the repeal bill would be good for Rand Paul (and Mitch McConnell). Blocking it for not being extreme enough could be crazy like a fox 11- dimensional Aqua Buddha chess.
Ron Johnson has been hinting a no for a long time. He was just re-elected. Here I think that senators with 6 safe years might be more likely to vote no. Failure to pass a bill with hurt Republicans in the short run. Passing a horrible bill will hurt them in the long run.
I’m pretty sure Cruz and Lee are play acting. My guess is that they said no to establish a bargaining position — if McConnell is the right most position, the bill will move further left than if they pretend they might vote no. I read somewhere thatCruz had an individual statement in which he made it almost clear he was going to get to yes.
Summing up, I have no prediction for how this will end. But I do very strongly suspect that Heller, Capito and Portman will win two (staged) battles and get 7 year phaseout and some opioid money, declare victory and vote yes.
update 4: My prediction was wrong (as usual). Heller denounced the bill. He described many of its horrible aspects, definitely including the long term cuts to legacy Medicaid. This is not an issue which can be fudged, because the amount of money involved is huge. He still might cave, but it would be an authentic cave not a staged victory. This is very good news. Also there is even better news reported by The Washington Post
Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) announced that he could not vote for the legislation without revisions, singling out the measure’s long-term spending cuts to Medicaid as the reason for his opposition. The announcement caught some Republicans in Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s orbit by surprise.
If McConnell had been counting on Heller, his count could be off. In particular, he might have counted to 49 and assumed he could get one more from a senator unwilling to decide the victory for the Democrats. Heller’s announcement takes pressure off of her (she is named Lisa or Susan).
Robert:
Rand Paul wants to repeal the ACA entirely without doing any modifications. That is why he “might” vote no. Maybe that is a strategy like you said? We need to delay until September when they can no longer do Reconciliation. After that time period, it will take 60 votes and tax reform will be dead too.
Yes delay through September, but first hold the line next week. One week at a time.
As much as I hope some Reps grow a sense of responsibility, I think kabuki is right on point.
As Reps learned very early in Obama’s first term, you are allowed to play the crowd, but you better not stray. Obama’s first big piece of legislation, the ARRA, needed Rep support (as Franken had not yet taken the Senate) to get past the filibuster.
Collins, Spector and Snowe gave them that support (thought the price they got for it was immense in terms of dollars and types of spending). Snowe and Spector were shown the door, only Collins survived, mainly due to the fact she had five more years in the Senate. Since then she has been a good little GOP bot.
Every GOP Congressmen knows this. If they block this tax cut, their careers will quickly end.
EM:
It is beyond belief any Republican will buck the party line. They will make a show of it like McCain always does and then vote “yes.”
“Summing up, I have no prediction for how this will end.”
I do.
It will pass. The House will accept it in reconciliation. Trump will sign it. It will become law. Everything else you hear is just theater.
I don’t agree with Joel. What has emerged from the Senate is not going to pass. There will be no reconciliation with the House. Nothing will be done with healthcare in 2017.
I think this is exactly what the Republicans want. They don’t want AHCA. They don’t want to put their senate/house seats up for grabs because of a crappy health care bill. So this is all theater.
Obamacare will be the law of the land. And in October of 2017 there will be an average of a 25% increase in premiums, deductibles will skyrocket. The # of people in ACA will (again decline). Obamacare will be officially in a death spiral by the end of 2017. And then it gets worse…
In 2018, just before the next election, there will be another 25% increase and another jump in deductibles. There will be nothing affordable in the Affordable Care Act. In addition, there will be millions of people who get a nasty letter from the IRS that says that money is owed because someone failed to sign up for ridiculously expensive heath insurance.
I think that the individual mandate will bring people into the street. We shall see soon enough.
If the Reps want to hold on to the Senate and House, the best thing they could do is make the people suffer under Obamacare. In 2018 Every Republican will scream “Blame Pelosi!!!” “Dump the Dems!!”
bk:
Why don’t you tell them why, why the healthcare insurance premium will increase and why more insurance companies will withdraw?
bk:
It is a good strategy; but, I wonder if McConnell’s ego will not get in the way. It was the Repub, Boehner, and McConnell’s call to repeal and replace. They have done little to do either. Instead Repubs have chosen to undermine the ACA with the blocking the Risk Corridor program by Sessions, Upton, and Kingston and forcing Coops to go bankrupt, healthcare premiums to rise, and insurance companies to withdraw and lose money. Trump has threaten to eliminate the CSR which is a subsidy for Out of Pocket costs for those who qualify and have at least a Silver healthcare insurance plan. Nothing the ACA has done has caused people in the INDIVIDUALS market to suffer as much as the undermining the Republicans have done and which you endorse.
What is the Median deductible in 2016 and how does it compare to 2015?
https://www.cms.gov/Newsroom/MediaReleaseDatabase/Fact-sheets/2016-Fact-sheets-items/2016-07-12.html “Data Brief: 2016 Median Marketplace Deductible $850, with Seven Health Services Covered Before the Deductible on Average”
So Repubs and you are content to construe reality and lie to the individuals market place to force the issue. This is what has been brought to the forefront with the Trump presidency; false remarks, deflect, not what I meant, make another false statement, etc. in an effort to confuse the public so they no longer know what is reality and what is not. If that is the bandwagon you wish to be on bk; have at it’ I will refute your remarks.
<30% of those having insurance have a deductible greater than $3,000 and many of them are the younger invincibles. It is cheaper for them. There was a $300 increase in maximum deductible from 2016 to 2017 for individuals and $600 for families. Even if Trump mays good on his promise, the increase will be approximately the same for 2018.
“The # of people in ACA will (again [sic] decline)”
Hmm.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/21/news/economy/obamacare-enrollment-record/index.html
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/21/record-number-of-obamacare-signups-on-healthcaregov-for-2017-health-insurance-coverage.html
ACA membership was 16m in 2015. 10.3m today.
“American Health Coverage Continues to Rise” is what is stated in the opening of the Obamacare Enrollment Numbers report you cite.
BK,
Answer Run’s question. You know the only reason that the ACA is having this problem is GOP interference with the ACA from the beginning.
When you channel trump, you are almost always wrong.
Like right now.
Runny – It says there are more Americans covered, but not more people covered by ACA. ACA enrollment is now the lowest it has been since the program started. Most Americans get Ins. from their employment. There are 5m more people working today than in 2009, so of course total insured is up. You also have Medicare. 10,000 people per day 24/7 become eligible as they turn 65.
ACA covers only 10.3m people. That is 3% of the US population. It way too small a network to get costs down. In fact just the opposite happens. People who get Ins for the first time have many medical issues, some of those issues are pre-existing. So the cost of covering the 10m is much higher than in the larger population of workers. There are now 45 counties with a single Ins provider. So competition is forcing prices higher. Look how much big insures have lost because the participated in ACA. THEY LOST THEIR SHIRTS with ACA!
Mikey – Yes yes yes Blame the Republicans for this mess. Blame Trump all you like. But that is just BS and I think you know it. ACA is not a Republican creation. It is the Democrats that brought you this mess. Blame Nancy Pelosi. Her hands are much more dirty Mitch’s.
History will show that ACA was a terrible program. The next step in America is not some cocked up mess like ACA. It is universal healthcare. ACA is a road to nowhere. Let’s see what Americans think of this in November of 2018.
You lovers of ACA should always remember what GRUBER said. Only fools think that ACA is good for America.
ACA Architect:
‘The Stupidity Of The American
Voter’ Led Us To Hide Obamacare’s
True Costs From The Public ‘
Suckers…….
bk:
Gruber also said this: ““Any replace[ment] that they would pass would result in millions of Americans losing health insurance, would result in higher premiums, and would result in a huge redistribution from the poor to the rich,’ Gruber said on Boston Herald Radio’s “Herald Drive” show with John Sapochetti and Rick Shaffer. ‘Now if they are happy with that and they are willing to do that, I wouldn’t call that a replacement, I would call that a scam.’”
Now lets look at what Gruber said:
“Lack of Transparency… the Stupidity of the American Voter…”
“where he was trying convey the fact that something as simple as the semantics of calling something a mandate or a tax can make or break a bill. If you read everything he said or watch the video above you might not even catch what is wrong with this, but when the clip is taken out of context it can seem really messed up.
‘This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If [Congressional Budget Office] scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said that healthy people are going to pay in -– you made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money — it would not have passed… Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter, or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass. And it’s the second-best argument. Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.'”
In the same manner as “you can keep your insurance,” this too was taken out of context. You can read the rest for yourself here: https://obamacarefacts.com/2014/11/11/jonathan-gruber-obamacare/
bk:
You are discussing the Individuals market. Total enrollments for 2017 were over 12 million which come from “coverage in the 39 states that operate through healthcare.gov plus the 11 states and DC that run their own insurance exchanges.” You are citing healthcare.gov enrollments. “3% to 4% fewer than last year. HHS and the Associated Press (AP) put enrollment through healthcare.gov at 9.2 million; AP puts the number of enrollees in the 11 states plus DC at 3 million.”
Why were they down? “consumer confusion about the fate of the ACA and the Trump administration’s pull back on consumer outreach and ads in the final weeks of sign-up in January. So the last minute rush this year was much reduced.” ttp://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2017/02/12/aca-enrollment-final-numbers-for-2017-a-cautionary-tale-for-trump-and-republicans/
BK,
Not a whole lot of truth in any of the things you said. Among many the most dishonest is Medicaid expansion is a part of the ACA, a huge part. Then you go to the “losses” by insurance companies, when the answer for that is GOP intervention in the program. But the list goes on.
ANd the worst is when you become inhuman, “People who get Ins for the first time have many medical issues, some of those issues are pre-existing. So the cost of covering the 10m is much higher than in the larger population of workers. ”
Umm, that is a feature, not a bug, to us human beings.
BTW,
I love your single payer schtick.
Did you know it was Pelosi’s House that passed the public option? And that the only reason it was not in the law was that not one single GOP Senator(y’know, like McConnell) would vote to end debate?
Once again, you are playing with words and your underlying ideology is reprehensible.
Ok guys, Defend ACA. I take screen-saves of this crap. I will throw it back at you one day.
You folks have wake up and smell the coffee. ACA was bad law. It is dead today, but living as a zombie. Before this is over people will be begging to throw it in the junk pile. Just wait another year.
The ACA was not what we wanted and were stuck with when Liberman decided to stop everything. I already answered why the ACA is suffering as it is. Quite frankly Krasting, even though Bruce believes we need a village idiot; I am more than happy to help you out the door.
Runny – You are such a bully. A child like response. I make a comment that you disagree with, and you play tough guy and threaten to ban me from AB.
Ok Mr. Bully cut me off. Ask Crawford to cut me off. If he says no, then you go pound some salt.
more ad hominems bk? They suit you well . . . You make things up and then wonder why . . .
“screen saves”
You simply cannot understand that the ACA does not even exist anymore, right?
Even before the RWDWs totally kill it?
“[The] only reason that the ACA is having this problem is GOP interference with the ACA from the beginning.”
Was it the GOP that, less than a month before OE1, required that people sign up before they could shop, giving QSSI no time to get sufficient hardware online?
Was it the GOP that kept delaying the Employer Mandate?
Was it the GOP that changed prime contractors in the middle of OE1?
So how, exactly, has the GOP interfered with the ACA?
Warren,
Read Run’s posts.
He knows, and he was very explicit with what the GOP did. The things you mentioned were errors that had no serious effects down the road.
Remember that the ‘Obamacare repeal’ bills are fundamentally tax cut bills, financed by slashing Obamacare. They want Obamacare to die, and they want a big-ass tax cut for the rich. To get both, they need to pass a bill. Which is (one reason) why bkrasting is wrong.
Also, too, the party in power always gets blamed for the things that happen on its watch. In the highly unlikely event that ACA repeal fails, the GOP will kill the ACA by neglect and sabotage.
They can’t really undo the Medicaid expansion by neglect or regulatory sabotage. And that’s still where the real money is. So they can only attain part of one of their goals without passing a bill.
We shall see soon enough Joel. Whatever may come from the Senate will not be acceptable to the House. This is not going be resolved in conference this year. And I say it is too hot a topic (for either party) in 2018.
Run blames Trump and All those dirty Republicans. I disagree.
Run – What year was ACA passed? What is the FIRST year that the penalties for the Individual Mandate start? Answer: 2010 and 2017. OBAMA got a 6 year free ride on the penalties. Not a dime was paid in any of those years.
But in 2017 tens of millions will have a bill from the IRS for thousands of dollars. Have any of you people ever owed the IRS?? These are the terminators. They never stop. They hound you with phone calls. They seize your bank accounts. They destroy your credit. They seize your property. One can never fight the IRS. They always win.
So I think the Dems and the Prez kicked the can down the road on the KEY ELEMENT of ACA. They did it for pure political purposes. This was a con job. Shame on them. Obama knowingly put a time bomb in his signature legislation. Shame on him.
Again – this year – millions will owe the IRS serious money. Next year they will owe still more. There will be hell to pay when millions of IRS letters hit the mail. There is no one to blame but the Democrats. Nancy Policy will be destroyed by it. The Democratic party will suffer. Those that are betting on a sure thing that the Dems take the Senate and House in 2018 are simply ignoring the facts. The individual mandate WILL NOT SURVIVE.
Ok, Say I’m right. That ACA and the Mandate will kill the Dems. Then what are the alternatives?? There are only two:
1) The US goes to full Medicare for all. This is my choice, but I think it has a zero chance of becoming law anytime soon. Socializing Medicine is not going to happen.
2) Congress reworks ACA with the Mandate eliminated. To some extent this is what is being discussed now in Congress. This is a bad out come, but it will be better than ACA imploding before 2020.(or do you secretly want Trump in 20??)
I say again – ACA is DEAD. It was a bad law. It is going to die. What are you going to do with that reality? Write blogs about how great ACA is? You’re looking in the rear view mirror.
BK,
You should just stop.
“But in 2017 tens of millions will have a bill from the IRS for thousands of dollars. Have any of you people ever owed the IRS?”
That is a lie.
Here, knock yourself out.
I get to around $89K a year in AGI (Hint, there ain’t, many people in the entire country making that kind of money without having health insurance.
Second,
“Have any of you people ever owed the IRS?? These are the terminators. They never stop. They hound you with phone calls. They seize your bank accounts. They destroy your credit. They seize your property. One can never fight the IRS. They always win.”
This is another lie. They are not allowed to do anyo of those things under the mandate. They can only withhold tax return dollars.
And most of your other points are about the same. Little bits of truth mixed up with pure lies. Not to mention talking about medicare for all and praising it is the height of ignorance. It totally ignores political reality. And then compares it to reality.
The reality is coming. And you, if you have any heart at all, will pine for the ACA as the national law. Even the ACA that was left after the GOP attacks.
oops
Should be I get to around $89 K in AGI before the penalty reaches two thousand dollars.
Like I said, I keep screen saves. It is my expectation that:
1) No proposal from the Senate or House Republicans will become law. I think that is the strategy.
2) ACA blows up before the 2018 elections. The fines resulting from the Individual Mandate will be a factor in the death of ACA. Spiraling costs and declining participation will be other factors.
We have to wait 17 months to see if I’m right. But I’m on the record. ACA is dead. I just can’t fathom how you guys love it so.
It is only in trouble because of the GOP, you inane zero.
BTW, nice ignoring of your lies.
bkrasting, you’re just talking to your own echo chamber. Nobody here is saying that the ACA is metaphysical perfection. Certainly not me. After all, the ACA was invented by the Heritage Foundation and was implemented by Willard “Mitt” Romney as governor of MA, later failed GOP presidential candidate.
What American needs is single payer, like all the other industrialized nations on the planet. But the ACA is better than what the GOP is proposing. Full stop.
Joel:
Few countries have single payor. Most are two tiered. List of Countries by Health Expenditure Covered by Government None on this list pay 100% and insurance does exist to pay the gap or it is out-of-pocket. England has socialized medicine and Canada is not Socialized but is single payor (Barkley, did I guess right on Canada?).
Does Single payor mean they control the rising cost of healthcare (pharma, hospital supplies, hospitals, clinics, etc.) as well as eliminate the fee for service model of providing healthcare or is it just a book keeping scheme? Here, a little Ezra Klein for you. What Liberals get Wrong About Single Payer
Not an argument. I am just trying to help you understand and from where I am coming.
Oh, and BTW, you’re not the only one with screen saver and copying ability.
Heh.
Joel,
It is worse than that. This idea that history will show if he is right if:
“1) No proposal from the Senate or House Republicans will become law. I think that is the strategy.
2) ACA blows up before the 2018 elections. The fines resulting from the Individual Mandate will be a factor in the death of ACA. Spiraling costs and declining participation will be other factors. ”
is simply garbage. Even if you ignore his pernicious lies about the ACA about the ACA (which he cannot defend), he predicts the future where the ACA dies of natural causes.
No, it was poisoned and murdered by the GOP.
Idiots know that. Krasting doesn’t.
Ok ACA lovers, explain this.
In 2016 68% of ACA patients could not afford their soaring hospital deductibles. Again that was 2016. Don’t blame Trump for this outcome. This is Obama’s law and this result happened on his watch.
This will get worse in 2017, and much worse again in 2018.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-27/2-out-3-patients-cant-afford-their-hospital-bills-thanks-obamacares-soaring-deductib
bk:
You sound really stressed. Tough day at work or the blog? Every time you come out here you get beat either by Bruce, Coberly, or myself. Soaring deductibles heh? I already answered what the deductibles were so I am not going to repeat myself again. Go back and read it again.
The ACA is not responsible for the soaring costs of healthcare. You should know that by now. The healthcare industry which includes pharma, hospital supplies, hospitals, clinics, and doctors are responsible. The model for providing healthcare is a fee for services. The more services, the more profit and cost. Your battle is with the healthcare industry. Congress in its infinite wisdom decided not to regulate the healthcare industry. Republicans abstained from playing a part in the creation of the ACA and regulating the industry.
If you read the CMS article you would know deductibles are not as bad as you make them out to be. We are talking about the individuals market which makes up 8% of the total insured.
I already answered why things will get worst so I am not going to do it again.
By the way, Dan has no problem with me. On a side note; I also have a show quality male Norwegian Elkhound by the name of Tyler. Great dog . . .