Trump almost certainly no longer has any chance to win Florida, the northern third of which is chock full of families connected with the military. [UPDATED.]
TRUMP: I think I’m going to to do great in Ohio, we’re going to do great in Pennsylvania, I think I’m going to do great in Florida and I think I’m going to do great in states that some people aren’t even thinking about. Because I’m different than Republican candidates, than other Republican candidates. I’ve got states that we can win that other Republican candidates wouldn’t even stop over for dinner.
— Donald Trump, during an interview yesterday with Washington Post political reporter Philip Rucker
As a native Midwesterner who had always thought of “Florida” as consisting of south Florida, the Tampa Bay area, the Orlando area, and the parts that connected them, I had no idea that northern Florida is pretty much a world unto itself. Or that it even existed.
But I’ve become familiar with it and therefore know it definitely exists. I also know that with the exception of its two major state college towns both of them very liberal it is politically beet read. And that one significant reason for it (albeit not the primary reason) is that scads of families in northern Florida have close ties in one way or another to the military: An immediate family member is active-military, retired career military, or is a veteran. Many families have more than one such tie.
This is true even in the two major college towns, one of which has a large Veterans Hospital connected to the University of Florida medical complex for medical training and for research.
I’m guessing that the same is true of North Carolina, but Trump theoretically could lose that state and still win if he manages to win Rust Belt states (he won’t, but I’m speaking theoretically here). He cannot win under any theory, though, if he loses Florida.
I’m well aware that the Trumpers who are his base in the South—the Trumpers who believe that Muslim terrorists are streaming into this country by the thousands, not the Trumpers who believe Trump will restore manufacturing to the Rust Belt—get literally all the political things they believe are fact from talk radio (I don’t mean NPR), Facebook and Twitter.
That of course is not limited to residents of former Confederate states. I know that. But it appears to be intensely prevalent in those states. Last week a man I know shocked me when he told me he planned to vote for Trump as “the lesser evil,” because “at least he’ll stop all those Muslin terrorists from coming into the country.” I thought he was joking, and laughed.
But then he told me that a house guest of his, from rural southern Missouri (who, this man also mentioned, was frustrated because his recent application for food stamps had been denied), had told him that Muslims have been beheading people in this country. Using swords.
I assumed he was joking, and chuckled again, but he said, “In Michigan. It happened in Michigan.” I joked, “In Michigan? Just in Michigan? Why are they picking on Michigan?”
He said, “Oh, it’s all over the country. In Arizona, in …” “In Arizona, too?”, I said. “Yes. All over the country.” John (his house guest) has told him. John saw it on his Facebook page.
I was starting to realize that this man was serious. He believed his house guest. I said, “And you don’t think this would been, maybe, a really big news story?”
“John says the news media just reports what it wants to report. They’re just not reporting this.”
I laughed—really laughed. I pointed out that the victims’ families probably would have reported this to the police, who probably would have contacted the FBI, and also probably would have mentioned the death to, say, other family members, the victim’s employer or work colleagues, neighbors, and the like. There probably also would have been a funeral home involved that would have noticed the severed head or the deep slash at the neck if the head was not completely severed.
Lots and lots of people, in Michigan, in Arizona, and elsewhere around the country would have to have been silent.
And then there was he question of how John’s Facebook contacts learned of this. Did they know victims or a member of the victims’ families?
This man began to laugh—at himself and at John. “Guess it didn’t happen, did it?”, he said. “No,” I told him.
The incident shook me. I hadn’t realized how widespread the susceptibility to profoundly illogical conspiracy theories and the like is.
But I digress. Talk radio folks are smart enough to know that here are limits even to what most of their credulous audience believe. And they also know that the larger media would report that the talk radio host was pedaling this.
So, back to the very large presence in northern Florida of families tied to and highly sympathetic to military families.
The Trump v. Khan story has broken through even the talk radio bubble for people who normally are encased in it, partly because of Facebook, I’m guessing. And it’s unlikely to be treated as media-bias-against-Trump. Is is instead likely to be a bridge too far for a good many of these families with military ties, whose members now are likely to simply sit out this election, I’m betting.
The next round of polls in Florida and North Carolina will be significant, but not necessarily fully accurate regarding these voters, some of whom may not be ready to tell pollsters that they’re dumping Trump but who already know they will do that by sitting out this election.
I suspect also that Rust Belters who have been considering voting for Trump for despite rather than because of Ban Muslims and Build the Wall–some of them Sanders supporters in the primaries–are unabashedly done with Trump, because of a slew of high profile Trump comments and actions in the last two weeks.
Even apart from the specifics–NATO, Putin, the Khan family, bizarre claims about crime and his decision to try to piggyback on the shootings of police officers in Dallas and Baton Rouge (Law and Order!)–there is now a cascading recognition that Trump is severely mentally ill. This awareness, I suspect, is acute among military families and people whose ancestors are from former Eastern Bloc countries.
But I think it probably is spreading across a broad spectrum of voters, suddenly. The frequency of what appear to be public displays of actual insanity are increasing and probably will continue to increase.
Which raises the question, I guess, of a Republican third-party candidate or possibly Pence becoming the nominee somehow. In any event, Clinton will be the next president and is freed to campaign as whatever, ideologically, she wishes.
Courtesy of the Trump Trojan horse, albeit not in the way I had warned of.
____
UPDATE: The New York Times has an in-depth report online today about this. Titled “Donald Trump Risks Alienating Military Communities in Swing States,” reporters Alexander Burns, Noah Remnick and Nick Corasaniti, in Portsmouth, NH, Jacksonville, FL, Colorado Springs, Virginia Beach and Tucson interview (apparently) mostly fairly elderly veterans, a few of them retired career military, about this. (I think active-military folks are prohibited from speaking publicly about presidential candidates or the about the president.)
Added 8/4 at 6:22 p.m.
I long ago came to the conclusion that a lot of people in this country, including many people that I know, lack basic critical thinking skills.
I also know that until one match teacher put in a lot of time after school with me in the seventh grade to get me over issues with “word problems,” I was probably on track to be one of them.
Even after that I had difficulty with critical reading until a high school teacher circulated a questionnaire at the start of the year asking what we thought our weaknesses were and tailored the coursework to help us individually address those weak spots.
I don’t know what people in other parts of the country or even what people in my part of the country who didn’t have teachers who were inclined towards intervention do with their lives. It seems like for a lot of people, either these skills that ideally would be acquired by the time they graduate high school are learning it in college, or those who are continuing to college are those who have picked them up in high school.
Victor Davis Hanson would say that this is part of what we lost (in the form of a loss of inductive reasoning in favor of deductive reasoning) when we reduced the amount of “classical” material in education.
“The incident shook me. I hadn’t realized how widespread the susceptibility to profoundly illogical conspiracy theories and the like is.”
Half the population has an IQ under 100. 16% are below the 85 level.
“The Trump v. Khan story has broken through even the talk radio bubble for people who normally are encased in it, partly because of Facebook, I’m guessing. And it’s unlikely to be treated as media-bias-against-Trump. Is is instead likely to be a bridge too far for a good many of these families with military ties, whose members now are likely to simply sit out this election, I’m betting.”
If the military families are in the lower range of thinking abilities, you’ll win your bet. Otherwise, I doubt it. Eventually they’re going to catch on to what happened at the DNC.
Trump was perfectly justified to do a strong pushback against Kahn. His way of doing it was beyond stupid, for he stepped squarely into the trap set for him. If the man had any discipline at all, he’d have had a brief strategy session with some savvy advisers and the chance Hillary’s people took would have backfired.
All Trump had to do was to express sympathy to the Kahns for their loss, but point out that it was Hillary’s mad rush to war which resulted in the death of their son. That Hillary actually represented Israel when she voted against the wishes of her New York voters – the people she supposedly represented.
Trump’s failure to do this does not reflect well on his judgement, but his replying to a political attack was fully justified. The way the fool did it was about the worst possible – short of possibly saying the young Muslim guy’s death was good riddance.
I’m going to sound like a broken record till the election, but I continue to believe it’s an excellent possibility Trump is playing to lose.
I have wondered whether he is playing to lose or as Beverly has concluded he really is insane. The truly angry losers–who really have nothing to lose- will stick with Trump even if he does shoot somebody on 5th Avenue, but absent further unforced errors by Hillary, even angry people who could be worse off are not going to vote for Trump and Hillary will win. I sure would not count those chickens yet. Further, no matter how much Hillary pivots to the left it will not matter if the GOP controls Congress. The best thing that happened yesterday was the teabaggers getting it handed to them in Kansas. Maybe sanity is returning to American politics after all
I love this Khan explanation stuff.
Trump is the candidate for two reasons and two reason only; building a wall and banning Muslims.
That is it. None of his other policies separated him from the other candidates. they have been etched in stone for more than 50 years.
His problem is that, in reality, there are Muslims who are Americans first, and Muslims second. He never thought that would happen. And when it did happen, he was too stupid to back off and let it go. He had to attack the Khans.
But then, that is what racists do.
Well, it was also making America great. . . for us instead or them.
Another view of the Khan affair.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/08/khizr-khan-really-needs-to-chill-and-contemplate-who-is-responsible-for-his-sons-death-it-aint-trump/
selection: “Consequently, to be quite frank, I find the exploitation of dead American servicemen for political purposes distasteful and disgusting. I also find the exploitation of dead enemy — “We came, we saw, he died — hee, hee, hee” — for political purposes distasteful. But there seems to be no lower limit to how far Democrats will go to exploit the dead.”
Zachary,
Your repetitious harangues would have more validity if they were aimed at a more balanced target. You seem to have Clinton and Democrats in general in the cross hairs. Do you think that the middle east fiasco is a Democratic Party phenomenon? You don’t seem to be detached from reality, so why is it that you seem not to appreciate the central role played by the erstwhile members of the cheering section for war that has occupied the Congress for several decades now. Yes, the GOP has voted routinely for guns and ammo and armed trips to Arabia. They’re all up to their necks in responsibility for the country’s misadventures in Oil Town led by that well known wildcatting family descended from uncle Herbert Walker. So don’t be so miserly in your disparagement of corporatists and war mongers in the political class. It’s easier to count the ones who didn’t and aren’t. HRC is no icon of good policy, but Trump could surely teach her a few thinks about cheating, double dealing
and having no regard for the facts of any issue.
Zachary Smith: “khizr khan really needs to chill and contemplate who is responsible for his sons death it aint trump.”
Apparently you didn’t even listen to Khan’s speech, which explains your ignorant response.
He didn’t blame anyone for his son’s death, least of all Trump. What he was pointing out was the injustice of Trump threatening to ban people like Khan’s son from the country he had given his life for. He was pointing out Trump’s ignorance of the First Amendment to the Constitution forbidding religious discrimination by the government.
Yet you turn this around, somehow in your sick mind, into blaming someone for his death. What is wrong with you?
US war casualties in the AUMF who were Muslim: around 14!
Muslim victims of Hillary’s vote and her ease with collateral damage: 4 million.
DNC is corrupt why even discuss?
Ilsm,
If Hillary did not vote to allow Bush the authority to attack, what would have changed?
Absolutely nothing.
Which is what is left of your reason.
Ilsm, “DNC is corrupt why even discuss?”
I repeat for your edification. The political class is corrupt, for the most part.
Why do you and others with an inclination towards right wing fantasy thinking only focus on Democratic Party trips to the trough? Both sides of the Congressional aisle take their abundant share of payment for work well done. For whose benefit is the other question, but they’re both in it for personal gain and aggrandizement.
At least congress would have been on record against the insanity which has been continued by the guy who ran on his vote against the insanity.
Do you infer Bush would have invaded Iraq in Mar 03 without AUMF? How pull that off? He would not have gotten the OCO appropriations each year.
OCO which Obama proposed for the 8th lying time and the congress disposed! All to blame as Jack observes.
Jack,
It is not only right wing. In my case it is anti neocon and anti war, like opposite of Hillary close advisor and Ukraine commando V. Nuland, married to Robert Kagan.
Anti- NEOCON is more leftie, usually.
That said; asking what ‘US is doing in NATO’ when Germany is no longer subvertable not paying its share because it does not see the danger, and Soviets are not there to remind US we said Germany would never reunite, nor grow industry is a valid question.
That puts Trump definitely to the left of Hillary even as the crooked team says: “questioning autopilot path to mass murder as somehow evil.”
The Clinton [with the crooked DNC] thought crime commission could have been run by Goring..
Can somebody define “almost certainly”?
Yes. Northern Florida is the state’s Republican stronghold. The only exceptions are Tallahassee and Gainesville, which are state-college towns and liberal. Jacksonville is one of the very few large cities in the country to be predominantly Repub. I think it’s the largest city in the country to be Repub, in fact.
But a significant factor–not the main one, which is that northern Florida is culturally Southern, but a significant factor nonetheless–is the large number of families with some tie, present or past, to the military.
Florida has been very closely divided in the last several presidential elections, with the exception, I believe, of 2004.
If support for the Repub nominee among voters with family military connections is significantly lower than usual, Trump can’t win.
That’s the math.
Beverly,
No, that is only the math based on the past. There is still a very large number of potential voters who belong to the non-voting, unaffiliated, disenfranchised, group. The untapped masses, and these folks may come from a more varied background than what the statisticians might expect, and there will most certainly be some ex military members in this group. There are also a surprising number of Hispanics, many from the border region, who know first-hand just how much the undocumented invasion has affected wages and crime. There have of course been many efforts to show otherwise, but those of us who have lived near the border, and have lived within the Hispanic culture, are not so easily fooled. In fact, after living the Southwest for many decades, and speaking countless others about the influx as it occurred, I have only very rarely heard anyone, of any race or ethnicity, who is willing to argue on behalf of the ‘illegals’. So, when Trump came out so strongly against illegal immigration… I was not at all surprised. The sentiment on the ground in regards to this issue is very different than what the media and etc would have us believe.
This is not meant to suggest that I support Trump in any way! (I was recently called a “Trump Troll”, hehe.)
Anyone who thinks that there exists such a thing in this country as a truly independent voter is an imbecile.
People register as independents for a variety or reasons, swing their votes from one party to another is not one of them.
There are independents who vote Rep when they vote; there are independents who vote Dem when they vote; there is almost no people registered as independent who wing their votes from party to party.
Among intelligent people, this fact is well known. And there have been many studies to show it is true.
I am not going to play in this area, but all you have to do is look. Not hard at all.
ilsm
August 4, 2016 3:20 pm
At least congress would have been on record against the insanity”
Um, no. If HRC would have voted against the war, there would have only been 76 Senators doing so.
Once in a while you should spend some time in the real world.
There are too many news cycles between now and the election for this particular Trump overreaction to have much effect on the election. But this has highlighted an effective wedge attack for Hillary. To Trump EVERYTHING is personal. There is no such thing as a policy debate or disagreement. Every treaty is a personal matter between the heads of state in charge of negotiating it. And every disagreement with him is a personal attack on him. He is simply unable to not respond with unmitigated vitriol and hatred. So having somebody who appeals to elements of the Republican base say something bad about Trump has two effects. It helps to drive a wedge between him and the Republican base and it highlights just how unhinged and out of control he is. I predict that we’re going to see a LOT more of this between now and the election.
EM,
Demalarkey ®
® Bloom Cty
Ilsm,
You need to spend all of your time in bloom city.
Nothing you say about Clinton being totally responsible for the Iraq War has the slightest bit of truth. Not one shred.
To continue to spout lie after lie about her is to render your contribution to the discussion here and at EV to Trump’s dumpster.
If you were sane, you would be ashamed.
Knock yourself out calling me insane or having PTSD!
Ms former SecState says on TV: “nothing she breeched was “marked” when she sent it off outside of *SIPRNET, likely because she did not have a “key” with her.”
Anyone who has been briefed to protect sensitive information knows the information is the matter at hand and important, the “marking” is merely competent protection of sensitive information.
Ms Clinton was not competent nor performed requisition care!
That EFI* were in Ms Secretary’s open source communications is the breech, that she did not care to protect sensitive information or EFI is the issue.
*If you don’t know EFI/SIPRNET you don’t know enough to comment on the breech like everyone from Obama through the FBI. On breech blither Bloom Cty is superior to Clinton.
About NY Times running former “chief of espionage” Morell endorsement.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/05/04/former-cia-leader-defends-drone-strikes-torture/26882747/
Also Morell is now on the payroll of a Clinton supporter.
It is difficult to get a neocon torturer to change when his salary depends on endorsing crooked Hillary.