Mahatma Sanders: “First they Ignore You”
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
I have been firmly in the conventional wisdom camp that Bernie would never be the ultimate candidate and so as much as I always wanted to “Feel the Bern” and more or less identify with Sanders as a Social Democrat over against his Democratic Socialism you got to keep it real.
Until the tide starts flowing against the sensible conventional wisdom. Because while the smart money is still not on “then you win” anybody who went heavy on “then they laugh at you” futures is looking a little foolish right now. Because on the Democratic side the race between Sanders and Clinton is right in Stage 3: “then they fight you”
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-just-melted-away-132944325.html
Bernie Sanders just melted away a 30-point Hillary Clinton lead in a new poll
Business Insider By Brett LoGiurato 5 hours ago
” The poll, from Quinnipiac University, found Clinton leading Sanders among national Democratic primary voters, 44% to 42%. ”
All that incense you were burning seems to have worked Bruce.
“Om Mani Padme Bern”
I finally got to a Bernie rally in a modest (for NH) snow storm.
Bernie says in a lot of words but end on the economy he is clear it is “working for a few, it has to begin working for we the people.”
He also used my favorite line from Lincoln: “of the people by the people and for the people!”
Ben and Jerry were there! Ben confessing to concocting Bernie” Yearning……….
“All the chocolate smushed to the top!”
Should Bernie win NH and have a record turn out of new voters; SC will end Hillary.
This short but sweet item in the Amazon Shopper explains why Bernie is winning the battle for Google… https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/04/bernie-sanders-won-the-debates-google-fight-in-more-ways-than-one/
“How to donate to Bernie Sanders” was the 4th most popular search query post debate. A genuine nightmare for madame secretary.
Bernie is someone to vote for. A novelty in US politics!
The problem I see with Sanders is that once in the White House nothing will ever get done . The government will be frozen at the first budget increase meeting soon as they run out of money. The oligarch-deep state will no doubt create false flag events in controlling the government and sheeple with fear tactics. The same could happen with Trump but not so much so because he is one of them and they like him…
William you are ignoring the difference between aspiration and perspiration
Communists work towards violent revolution and are content and even happy to let the ‘contradictions heighten”, i.e. gridlock and inaction, whereas socialists of almost all flavors have been open to incremental change towards the goal.
Whatever Bernie’s aspirational goals he has shown a willingness to work, if not totally within the system (e.g. id’ing as an ‘Independent’), but with the system (caucusing with Democrats).
There is little to nothing in Sander’s history that would validate the Clintonite claims that he would accept nothing except everything starting on Day One. Instead the goal is transformation.
Whereas Clinton is at best committed to reformation and remediation but to most observers seems opposed to moving to a fundamentally new system.
Martin Luther King Junior would have loved racial, social and economic justice overnight but nothing in his “I Have a Dream” speech suggested he would wake up to that bright new day that morning
“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.’
Bruce:
Barack Obama went over board to meet with Repubs from day 1 and even sold us out at times to placate them and reach a point which was used as another stepping stone by the Repubs to force their will upon us. Pre-day 1 the Repubs had their secret meetings after the election and it was decided to stonewall Barack Obama from day 1 to which they continue to do even now. Sanders may be a different person altogether and no Black; but what makes you believe, the Repubs will be “much” different in how they treat a labeled socialist and white Dem president?
This is not about historical backgrounds as Barack had little to base anything upon and Sanders has much more. The Repub climate will not change because it is Sanders. It will be business as usual.
Part of Bernie’s problem is that he calls himself a socialist. He isn’t a socialist. He does not advocate state ownership of the means of production. He is a welfare stater, as are most Democrats and, indeed, “moderate” (they used to be called “Rockefeller”) Republicans. Where all those folks differ is on particular programs and mattes of degree. However, for better or worse, he has stuck himself with that label and most Americans, according to the polls, reject it.
True.
Not necessarily true. Ignoring the potential circularity. Replace ‘socialist’ with ‘thespian’
Gifted and beloved actress Betsy X is a thespian. Boo!!
A thespian is an actress, for example our gifted and beloved Betsy. Yeah Thespianism!!
Bernie has the potential to transform the equation socialist = commie to socialist = like Bernie Sanders. Sure there is a risk that most Americans will read right to left, but polling shows that more and more Americans don’t have the same visceral reaction that people my age and older do.
“Socialism? You mean like Social Security and Public Libraries and the Fire Department? Doesn’t sound so bad to me.”
Beene,
You really should try to pay some attention to reality. The NH primary means nothing to anybody. And the math is really simple:
“In this respect, it is important recognize how much the nomination process is stacked towards Clinton. It is not just a question of her having the vigorous support of a former Democratic president and largely controlling the Democratic National Committee. She is also likely to have the overwhelming support of the super-delegates (Democratic members of Congress, state office holders, and other prominent Democrats).
The super-delegates are just under 15 percent of the total number of delegates. If Clinton wins this group by a margin of 80% to 20% (she has more than 95% of the super-delegates who have already made a commitment), then Sanders would have to capture more than 55 percent of the elected delegates to get the nomination. ”
http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/krugman-on-bernie-sanders-electability?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+beat_the_press+%28Beat+the+Press%29
Well there is a hidden circularity here. Most of those super-delegates are themselves up for election this year and so vulnerable to primary challenges. If their districts really start feeling the bern are they all going to put Hilary’s electoral prospects ahead of their own? Sure if they all stick it might take that 55% of the vote to turn it for Sanders but if every point he gains towards and beyond 50% support peals off some percentage of super-delegates you get a convergence towards the mean. The explicit (if not implicit) justification for the existence of super-delegates is that they are not formally bound by anything and can vote in the best interest of the Party. Right now that is Hilary. Then again that was true in 2008. How many of Hilary supporting supers in Jan 2008 actually cast protest ballots at the Convention? I am betting close to zero. Hilary will not maintain 90% of supers if their districts and States start swinging towards Sanders. Your argument fatally confuses carts, horses, and coachmen.
Meanwhile, I got big questions about that Quinnipiac poll.
“The Quinnipiac poll found that Sanders would fare better than Clinton in hypothetical general-election matchups, an argument he has started to make on the campaign trail. For example, while Clinton would lose to Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Florida) by 7 points, Sanders would tie him, according to the survey. He would also double Clinton’s margin of victory over real-estate magnate Donald Trump.”
And there is my question. What is the point of having a poll based on match ups that are not real? I cannot imagine why anyone would think a poll of two candidates who are not campaigning against each other has any value at all.
What happens when Rubio or Trump start calling Sanders a dirty commie? Gonna happen, no question about that.
BTW, I do not think Sanders is a dirty commie any more than I think Obama is a kenyan muslim, but that has nothing to do with anything.
Now that we are being invited to worry ourselves with what Rubio or Trump says, I guess everyone can share.
What happens if the tribe of corrupt opportunists managing madame secretary’s road show aren’t able to keep a veneer of legitimacy on her coronation? What if millions of Bernie Sanders supporters not only fail to dutifully take the “pragmatic corruption” elixir and pull the Clinton lever, but decide to register their frustration in extra electoral mass events? What if the 2016 election takes place in an aftermath of the kind of surveillance and extra-legal detention that Holder eventually used to put Occupy down?
By all accounts Sanders has managed to inspire a large group of young people many of which are likely marginally employed and facing insane levels of permanent debt peonage. You’re talking about highly educated and informed people who have too much time on their hands and maybe not so much to lose.
You think Madam Attorney Lynch is ready to handle general strikes and mass rallies organized by people who don’t believe they’ve committed any crime beyond attempted democratic participation? You think that scenario might complicate things for Mrs. Clinton’s employers?
Whatever happens in the next 12 weeks it better not “Stink”. I don’t think the Des Moines register was complaining about the smell of hog farms last week…
And just to swerve myself closer to Bruce’s point about the Clinton campaign being in “now we fight” mode: This week’s coverage of the campaign message in NH shows she’s trying to “fight for” younger voters.
If she gets desperate enough maybe she’ll get approval from her paymasters to actually articulate, you know, policy. Anything’s possible.
No, she went with the big dog. Predictable. Losing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/08/bill-clinton-unloads-on-bernie-sanders-ahead-of-crucial-new-hampshire-primary/?tid=a_inl