Guest post: “It’ll be okay: Trust me”, redux
Dan here….The Largest climate march in history is happening today. Jan Galkowski responds to a Wall Street Journal editorial. He requested that comments be written at his website in order to consolidate questions and answers.
by Jan Galkowski
“It’ll be okay: Trust me”, redux
Professor Steven Koonin offers up another dollop of vague, specious criticism of climate science in his editorial in The Wall Street Journal. He is credentialed, no doubt authoritative. But compelling arguments for a position should be judged as if the speaker’s identity were unknown and, so, for the most part, I’ll leave it to the reader to find out who Koonin is, or was, by consulting the Wall Street Journal article itself. (Hey, they published it. They deserve a few extra clicks to appease their profit-demanding owners. And, while I respect his career, the editorial he writes is in many ways thoroughly disappointing, not reflecting the deep knowledge no doubt Koonin has. Did the Wall Street Journal get nervous about an earlier, more honest version?) No doubt it is entirely coincidental this op-ed appeared on the weekend the largest climate march to erupt on the planet yet. (Professor Koonin could have published it at any time. But nay.) The actual argument is the latest of a long series of reasons for why climate science should not convert to climate policy.
Let’s see what’s been admitted in this rendition of Tom Petty’s “Yer So Bad” (in reference to climate science).
Early on Koonin admits key points, often opposed by so-called “climate deniers” of the past (*):
- Climates can change, and they can change very rapidly, sometimes as quickly as a decade.
- Climates change because there are causes. Koonin glosses “causes” by using the term “influence”. That might reveal his prejudice, but it grants the case. Koonin grants that the “impact today” is comparable to natural climate variability. Koonin leaves completely open what the impact might be in future years. (See the discussion of “lags”below.)
- The “influence” of carbon dioxide emissions will continue “for several centuries”. I fault Koonin seriously here, because there is plenty of evidence that some of the human generated carbon dioxide will remain in atmosphere for millenia, and that science isvery basic.
Koonin then proceeds to make a number of claims:
- The question of how climate will change over the next century is unsettled science.
- “[C]hoices about energy and infrastructure” should be based upon “answers” to that question.
- Science does not understand the oceans well enough in order to make such projections.
- Climate feedbacks, notably those concerning water vapor feedback, “are uncertain”, and cannot be predicted from ab initio physics, but must be based upon “precise, detailed observations that are, in many cases, not yet available”.
- Climate models used to project what climate might be for the next century are imperfect and sloppy. (Note, nothing is said about their ability to project beyond one century.)
- The IPCC Summary for Policymakers sweeps under the rug many of these nuances.
- Climate science represents “heroic research” which costs “billions of dollars”.
With these claims, Koonin remains in the realm of the sensible and the accurate. Okay, that “billions of dollars” is bait for the Tea Party. Do readers know most scientific participation in the IPCC is on the scientists own dime, including travel costs? And he could suggest that if the climate science is correct or understates the problem, the trillions of dollars it will cost to try to fix the problem. And the “unsettled science” of the next century is not bottom line “unsettled”, it’s poker. But, then, he launches off into Climate Zombieland, claiming:
- Computer modeling of complex systems is as much an art as a science. Partly so, but that’s part of science. The same might be claimed of medicine. But most science and engineering is “as much an art as a science”. Does that make buyers of BP gasoline think it’s gasoline is less reliable than Exxon’s? No, of course not. That’s because the quality control needed to produce it, whatever the art and science mix involved, produces a repeatable usable product. The “art” here is not Salvador Dali. The “art” here means “disciplined practice”. Koonin is equivocating the two, and thereby misleading.
- One important feedback, which is thought to approximately double the direct heating effect of carbon dioxide, involves water vapor, clouds and temperature. This is patently false, or at least badly misleading. Water vapor can double the direct heating effect of carbon dioxide, but it also removes heat as well. Koonin is telling the reader one side of the story.
- [F]eedbacks are uncertain. All of science and engineering is uncertain. But one way of defining science and engineering is that field of investigation where quantitative knowledge is preeminent, and quantifying uncertainty in that knowledge is a basic requirement. This quantitative knowledge is not the fiction of most accounting practice, which parades itself as solid knowledge, but must necessarily be uncertain and is subject to a myriad of assumptions and measurement inaccuracies. In science and engineering, the practice (or “art”) of the field demands such uncertainties be quantified and stated. The Summary for Policymakers leaves specific risk numbers out, trying to replace them by a qualitative and coded schedule of words. That’s by choice of the countries who have final editorial say over the Summary’s contents.
- The models differ in their descriptions of the past century’s global average surface temperature by more than three times the entire warming recorded during that time. Such mismatches are also present in many other basic climate factors, including rainfall, which is fundamental to the atmosphere’s energy balance. Yeah, that’s why an ensemble of models is being used, because of the strong statistical notion that an ensemble is going to have higher predictive value than any single model by itself. It’s the same reason why systems like the Iowa Electronic Markets are seen as having stronger predictive power than, say, election polls.
Koonin goes on, and he gets increasingly misleading. He faults climate models for failing to predict the “warming hiatus” (see here and here), yet says nothing about models which include oceanic effects and succeed in doing so. He faults climate models for failing to predict increase in Antarctic sea ice claiming they “roughly describe” the loss of Arctic ice. That’s grossly misleading and either is cynical or demonstrates ignores. Climate models totally missed the rate of Arctic sea ice loss. Koonin seems to not want to point that out, because it shows that the imperfections in climate models could just as well fall on the side of reality turning out far worse than they predict as it could fall on being better than they predict. And he repeats a denier claim regarding Antarctic sea ice which he should know far better about: Increasing Antarctic sea ice is because the Antarctic cap is dissolving, not because it’s getting colder. It’s comparing apples and oranges. There’s no continent at the North Pole. There is a continent at the South. He’s exploiting ignorance in people who don’t know this distinction. Given his claim to knowledge, that’s just unethical. He also completely skips the fact that we already know, from climate history, that over the next several centuries sea level will rise 65 feet, no matter what we do. All we can do is to help prevent it from happening sooner, and keep it from getting worse.
Being such an expert in computationally modeling, Koonin could instruct the audience in the importance of lags in physical systems. That is, if a force or cause is imposed right now, it is not at all the case, especially for extended, complex systems, that the effect will be seen right now, or soon. And, if he were true to his expertise, he might suggest that there is a low but not insignificant probability that the linear models upon which these projections are based could be missing strong nonlinear couplings which might produce massive effects much sooner than projected, in the same manner which they missed the collapse of Arctic sea ice. While Koonin may not be speaking primarily to a science audience in his op-ed, he could recommend concrete improvements like those Palmer did in 1999.
The most outrageous thing about Koonin’s op-ed, for me, is that despite his harping on the ignorance and the need to improve, no where does he recommend a massive scientific campaign to improve our state of the oceans and the climate. Funding for these has been severely cut, and the resources and science for doing them is suffering. Instead, he proposes another layer of review.
Koonin could have done everyone a great service to clarify and unify. But he ended up being “another pretty face, with credentials” arguing “Trust me: It’ll be okay.” We’ve heard that before.
In all, it is a disappointing and bad bit of rhetoric.
But I wonder: Will anti-“climate alarmists” will sleep with a copy under their pillows after they see the coverage of tomorrow’s People’s Climate March?
Is it such a surprise that BP’s former head scientist puts out that kind of crap?
http://rabett.blogspot.com/2014/09/we-dont-know-everything-but-we-know_20.html
The President’s Counsel of Economic Advisors took this red herring “We’re not certain” argument head on, by recommending Climate action be treated as an “insurance” expense. BP is takes steps to ensure it’s tankers won’t or wells blow, but still buys insurance
Re Donn’s comment, I have not seen it presented as insurance, and seen visions of the premium required. (Of course since folks can’t agree on the discount rate to use the numbers can not converge). But I favor presenting it as an insurance policy here is the premium and here are the reasonably expected losses. The society can decide if it wants to pay the premium.
Jan makes this point: “Koonin could have done everyone a great service to clarify and unify. ” And for anti-“climate alarmists” that’s exactly what he did. Just because his views were different we get this response: “But he ended up being “another pretty face, with credentials” arguing “Trust me: It’ll be okay.” We’ve heard that before.”
You will continue to hear this refrain from skeptics as the models diverge more from reality and short term predictions fail.
I assume Jan attended one of the People’s Climate Marchs and is reinvigorated, but the counter arguments will remain, and continue to be based upon the actual data and not be model-based.
Of course, “we” are not certain about climate change.
There are decision rules under uncertainty. They are used for many things like justifying hundreds of billions of for nuclear ballistic missile subs.
One is mini max. Another is maxi max.
Mini max says do something because the maximum regret is very serious harm for the 98%. Why 300000 people wandered around Manhattan on a mugging Sept Sunday.
Maxi max says do nothing because the maximum benefit is for the 1%.
Why the Kochs are running ad………
I needed no more reasons to ignore the WSJ editorial pages.
“Captain! There be zombies here!”
Scotty(well, almost)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UrLYVmbijLw/UlJM1k1bi0I/AAAAAAAAAmw/jcgxJRf17fQ/s1600/cmip3vsObserved_realizations.png#sthash.cDhFOf9F.dpuf
EM, you can be counted on to provide DATED information. We are now up to CMIP5, not CMIP3. This is how 73 of the CMIP5 GCM ensemble compares to observations: http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-73-models-vs-obs-20N-20S-MT-5-yr-means1.png
And when we look at 90 of the CMIP5 GCM ensemble we get: http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-90-models-global-Tsfc-vs-obs-thru-2013.png
These graphs can be found at Dr Roy Spencer’s blog http://www.drroyspencer.com/ using the search argument CMIP Vs Observations.
Before going off in paroxysms of claims of Cherry Picking, the satellite datasets use for comparison is not the lowest of the two, while the HadCrut4 surface dataset usually runs a little lower than the US versions.
It is this divergence from observations, the failure to predict the current pause/hiatus in temperature rise that has climate scientists searching for reasons to explain the pause. We are now up to 52 scientific papers and or articles with explanations. The overwhelming consensus in these it natural variation causes with the oceans leading the reasons.
Steven Koonin’s editorial was titled “Climate Science Is Not Settled”.
This stands out in the article.
“Society’s choices in the years ahead will necessarily be based on uncertain knowledge of future climates. That uncertainty need not be an excuse for inaction. There is well-justified prudence in accelerating the development of low-emissions technologies and in cost-effective energy-efficiency measures.”
“But climate strategies beyond such “no regrets” efforts carry costs, risks and questions of effectiveness, so nonscientific factors inevitably enter the decision. These include our tolerance for risk and the priorities that we assign to economic development, poverty reduction, environmental quality, and intergenerational and geographical equity.”
This seems like a reasonable approach to me.
In contrast, Jan Galkowski offers this: “But most science and engineering is “as much an art as a science”. And this: “All of science and engineering is uncertain.”
Frankly, those last are a little scary. At least they would be if I believed them. They appear to be an appeal to act on incomplete or unproven science. Under those circumstances how much money should be taken from social programs and spent on climate change? (Do you imagine that the funds would only come from cutting “waste, fraud, and abuse”?)
Poorly done science is worse than none at all. We would have been better off if the public had not been bothered with ‘cold fusion’ in 1989 or the stem cell creation research published by Japanese scientists in 2014.
Some years ago I read a very interesting article titled “The Truth Wears Off”:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/12/13/the-truth-wears-off
This article is a warning that errors can creep into any research.
JimH
you came damn close to being reasonable. however I think Jan can be excused for “science is art” in the context of the editorial he is replying to.
i like to think i can still tell the difference between “disagrees with me” and “is lying.”
liars are so sophisticated these days that they can usually weave their web of deceit out of threads of “truth.”
Koonin is lying. I have to wonder if he has no concern for his honor if not his soul. Does he not have grandchildren who will one day see what he wrote and be ashamed of him? The best excuse I think of for him is that he needs the money and he knows that what he says will have no influence on either science or policy.
The “costs” of reducing the effects of now inevitable climate change are largely imaginary. Increasing the efficiency of transportation and other power users is not a “cost” except to those who can make more money today by ignoring the very probable consequences of their inaction.
Why would I want to use anything from Spencer’s blog, particularly about models.
You do know that Spencer hand picks the model runs he uses? And has been caught doing it? Y’know, the same thing he and his fellow cretin at Brimingham have done before in other areas? That Spencer is a disgrace to science and a major loon?
Yup! EM fails to disappoint again. Why 2 version old on your reference of the models run spaghetti graph? What were you trying to show?
BTW, did you know your blog is no longer active? Must have gotten your graph from some way-back cache.
“404. That’s an error.
The requested URL / was not found on this server. That’s all we know.”
Not my blog, just a copy of the spaghetti graph. WHich btw is about the same in 5. Unless of course you use Spencer as a real scientist, instead of the bought and paid for mouth organ he actually is.
Seriously?
You want to use his TLT crap again? Wasn’t one disgrace enough?
Seriously?
You want to just use tropical latitudes between 20S and 20N? Y’know, as opposed to the entire globe?
At least purple jack(or whatever color identifier that randiansociopath is using) doesn’t bother to back up his statements with patently false data from a person who has decades of experience issuing patently false data.
Kind of sad for you that he, despite being a total ah, has more credibility than you.
JimH
“In contrast, Jan Galkowski offers this: “But most science and engineering is “as much an art as a science”. And this: “All of science and engineering is uncertain.”
Frankly, those last are a little scary. At least they would be if I believed them. They appear to be an appeal to act on incomplete or unproven science.”
Ya’think you could have taken that quote and your interpretation any more out of context?
Em what are you going on about? You used a 2 version old graphic from a dead blog without a clue of what you were showing. You accused Spencer without proof of cherry picking the models. How many models are there? Which are cherries and which are not used?
You claim Spencer is a ” paid for mouth organ…”. Paid by whom? AFAIK he gets his salary from the Univ of Al Huntsville, and from NASA. Have evidence otherwise?
For some strange reason you seem to think satellites measure only from 20N to 20S. Where do you come up with these crazy ideas? More dead blogs?
All through your rant you name call and ridicule, while the ridicule should be pointed at yourself for being so wrong and ignorant of the subject.
Google some more. Its comedy relief.
CoRev,
Fuck off.
Money to speak bs? GMI, etc. etc.
You are well aware of Spencer’s bs. If not here is a 3 part series(soon to go to syndication with hopes of a movie)
http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-1/
And where’d I’d get the 20N to 20S thing?
Right from the ah’s paper, that’s where!
Fig.2
. Mid-tropospheric (MT) temperature variations for the tropics (20o
N to 20o S) in 73 current (CMIP5) climate models versus measurements
from two satellite datasets and four weather balloon datasets.”
http://www.epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=16e80c55-9ebf-42e4-852e-1f6e960b0902
You are the worst kind of troll.
Once again, fuck off.
EM, another aged reference? It covers material mostly researched in the 2007-2008 time frame, and published some what later. The point Spencer was making was at that time was many/most climate scientists were focusing on mankind causes for climate change and ignoring the known natural causes. In that time frame the PAUSE/HIATUS was little recognized and almost not at all in the science. Things have changed since.
You have been citing some really old science ARTICLES and not actual peer reviewed papers. Since then the PAUSE/HIATUS has resulted in much published peer reviewed science which overwhelming supports Spencer’s contention that natural causes are dominant in short term trends. Trenberth’s the Heat’s hiding in the deep oceans was just an early convert, even though it has been debunked. This paper just released http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/09/16/1318371111.abstract is exemplary for the the evolving science. The PAUSE/HIATUS has changed the focus of climate science to natural causes for the change. Most center on the oceans, their cyclical oscillations, and their short term (less than 60 year, ~30 years warming — ~30 years cooling) impacts.
Coincidentally, the PAUSE/HIATUS appears to have started as the Pacific (PDO) started into the cooling phase. We have the Atlantic (AMO) cooling cycle to get started. And, these are just a couple of the NATURAL causes being recognized ins scientific literature. Which by the way is not SkS, and your other blog references.
Current science is much closer to Spencer’s pronouncements than Bickmore’s. Neither are absolutely correct. No one is. That should put an end to the claims of the “Settled Science”.
Bottom lining this discussion, Skeptics have been far more prescient in their predictions than have the mainstream AGW-based scientists. Yes, man influences climate, but the arguments are how, how much, and what can be done.
A 300,000 person march in NYC has not changed those questions. Nor will your profanity and misdirected anger change them.
CoRev,
You can select whatever data that pleases you, ignoring the rest well that might not please others.
The worst that can happen, aside from cutting some Koch money, is we get a cleaner less polluted environment………….
ILSM claims: “The worst that can happen, aside from cutting some Koch money, is we get a cleaner less polluted environment…………. ” Actually the worst is that we destroy whole segments of the economy while killing tens of thousands of less capable segments of the populace. Calling for man-caused shortages in raw resources and energy less developed parts of the world is just inhumane.
That’s why we see leaders form those counties asking for trillions of $s in restitution and industrial leaders of less developed countries ignoring these types of over-hyped calls for change.
Yes, I meant INHUMANE.
EM, you are hilarious. You claimed: “Right from the ah’s paper, that’s where!
Fig.2
. Mid-tropospheric (MT) temperature variations for the tropics (20o
N to 20o S) in 73 current (CMIP5) climate models versus measurements
from two satellite datasets and four weather balloon datasets.”
1st — it wasn’t a paper but a transcript of his Senate testimony.
2nd — He was pointing to a specific failure of the GCMs in that area. Why would he compare them to global averages?
Oh, he actually did in my earlier reference: http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-90-models-global-Tsfc-vs-obs-thru-2013.png
CoRev,
Please.
You show a chart that contains the inanities I described(there are other inanities also). I wonder if you are a Rep member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/23/jon-stewart-congress-climate-change_n_5866400.html
“But when you reconstruct the temperature history using nitrogen isotope ratios as a proxy for temperature, you get a much different picture,” Buizert pointed out. “The nitrogen-based temperature record shows that by 12,000 years ago, Greenland temperatures had already warmed by about five degrees (Celsius), very close to what climate models predict should have happened, given the conditions.”
Reconstructing temperatures by using water isotopes provides useful information about when temperatures shift but can be difficult to calibrate because of changes in the water cycle, according to Edward Brook, an Oregon State paleoclimatologist and co-author on the Science study.
“The water isotopes are delivered in Greenland through snowfall and during an ice age, snowfall patterns change,” Brook noted. “It may be that the presence of the giant ice sheet made snow more likely to fall in the summer instead of winter, which can account for the warmer-than-expected temperatures because the snow records the temperature at the time it fell.”
In addition to the gradual warming of five degrees (C) over a 6,000-year period beginning 18,000 years ago the study investigated two periods of abrupt warming and one period of abrupt cooling documented in the new ice cores. The researchers say their leading hypothesis is that all three episodes are tied to changes in the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC), which brings warm water from the tropics into the high northern latitudes.
The first episode caused a jump in Greenland’s air temperatures of 10-15 degrees (C) in just a few decades beginning about 14,700 years ago. An apparent shutdown of the AMOC about 12,800 years ago caused an abrupt cooling of some 5-9 degrees (C), also over a matter of decades.
When the AMOC was reinvigorated again about 11,600 years ago, it caused a jump in temperatures of 8-, 11 degrees (C), which heralded the end of the ice age and the beginning of the climatically warm and stable Holocene period, which allowed human civilization to develop.
“For these extremely abrupt transitions, our data show a clear fingerprint of AMOC variations, which had not yet been established in the ice core studies,” noted Buizert, who is in OSU’s College of Earth, Ocean, and Atmospheric Sciences. “Other evidence for AMOC changes exists in the marine sediment record and our work confirms those findings.”
In their study, the scientists examined three ice cores from Greenland and looked at the gases trapped inside the ice for changes in the isotopic ration of nitrogen, which is very sensitive to temperature change. They found that temperatures in northwest Greenland did not change nearly as much as those in southeastern Greenland — closest to the North Atlantic — clearly suggesting the influence of the AMOC.
“The last deglaciation is a natural example of global warming and climate change,” Buizert said. “It is very important to study this period because it can help us better understand the climate system and how sensitive the surface temperature is to atmospheric CO2.”
“The warming that we observed in Greenland at the end of the ice age had already been predicted correctly by climate models several years ago,” Buizert added. “This gives us more confidence that these models also predict future temperatures correctly.”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140904141953.htm
EM, you seem to have missed this point in your quote: “>>> The last deglaciation is a NATURAL example of global warming and climate change …” (MY EMPHASIS) Add to that the NATURAL phenomenon of the AMOC, and this report actually defines the impacts of natural causes.
To clarify, note this: “The nitrogen-based temperature record shows that by 12,000 years ago, Greenland temperatures had already warmed by about five degrees (Celsius), very close to what climate models predict should have happened, given the conditions.” Where is the reference to anthropogenic causes? If they are using CO2 as the catalyst for the warming then they have failed to describe the reasoning for the CO2 increase in a cold planet.
The Antarctic Ice Cores tell us that CO2 follows warming. Not precedes and therefore causing it. http://www.climatedata.info/resources/Forcing/Gases/CO2/03-CO2—Vostok-Ice-Core.gif Even though to the eye it looks like they are correlated, the CO2 increase lags the temp increase. At the granularity of these graphs CO2 breaks down to lag ~800 – 1000 year range.
The science still has not answered the question how much warming is from mankind and how much is from natural causes? The PAUSE/HIATUS shows us that nature is much larger player that the GCMs considered. They did not predict this now approaching significance drop/stop in warming.