Beliefs and economics
New study finds wealthy are different? via Alternet. Since today and yesterday is shaping up to be deficit days in posts from me, this note caught my attention:
One especially significant difference between the opinions of the wealthy and the population as a whole centers on deficit reduction. According to a study cited by Demos, “87 percent of affluent households believed budget deficits were a ‘very important’ problem, the highest percentage of all listed perceived problems.” Jobs and education, which rank at or near the top of most Americans’ list of priorities, were “a distant second to budget deficits among the concerns of wealthy Americans.”
According to an exit poll conducted after the 2012 election, 59 percent of the public rated the economy as the country’s number one problem, while only 15 percent cited the federal budget deficit. But as the Demos report notes, “the affluent [not only] participate more in civic life; they also have greater influence over public policy.”
They want to protect what the have rather than help others achieve their own. The selfishness of the wealthy. What a surprise!
If only they understood the connection between the economy and the deficit. Reducing the deficit will make them poorer, and actually makes deficits larger. If they don’t want to become Greece, then they should not support austerity. I have hope that Europe will at some point shed light on this, even the IMf is beginning to concede.
Someone at Fox News said Weimar republic, and hyperinfltion…..
The successful in the rigged scam the US calls capitalism, are not the brightest bulbs, the ones I am acquainted with anyway.
Fear of monetizing the debt, energozes their less than brilliant thinking.
The top group would like some deflation though.
“the rich” tend to read the propaganda of the very rich
which does favor deflation
and either sincerely believes in “balanced budgets” because the very rich are not awfully smart either, or just understands that agitating for balanced budgets helps them politically.
the less than rich are easily persuaded to believe in “balanced budgets”, but they also see the need, from time to time, for “social services”…
i am not sure how a poll goes about teasing out what people say, or think, they believe, from what actual policies they favor, or think they understand.
“While most Americans believe that they live in a highly meritocratic society where one’s fortunes are limited only by one’s innate talents and work ethic, several studies released in recent years suggest that Americans enjoy significantly less upward mobility than do the citizens of a number of other industrialized nations.”
The meritocracy is a myth espoused by those at the top who want people to believe they “earned” it so they can make others feel guilty for “stealing” it through taxation and calls for income equality. They want to paint a picture of a system where anyone and everyone can benefit, when in fact the system is broken.
There are the wealthy … and then there are the real wealthy who have the wherewithal to do things impossible for mere mortals to do and operate the strings of the financial news to guide public opinion …
Cyprus is an example of the Real Wealthy’s powerful activity ……
Cyprus is a false flag operation as was/is the US sequester bantering.
At the end of the subsequent cascading events… follow the money and see who has sequestered the wealth in the greatest transference of wealth in the history of mankind.
Most, even the most ardent of liberals, would agree that what is going on in Cyprus is illegal, unethical and fascist.
This activity will be used/identified/heralded by the financial news spokespeople as the triggering event for the world equities’ valuation collapse.
What is happening in the ‘real’ operating deterministic self assembly one quadrillion dollar equivalent Asset Debt Macroeconomic System is that the population pool of willing and interested equity and commodity speculator-investors
– even with and in the environment of the very advantaged equity tax laws and necessary ZIRP interest rates and necessary central bank QE and equivalent activity –
….. that dwindling population pool is within 8 to 9 trading days of being totally depleted.
GOOGLE is at a 16/40/39 of 40 week :: x/2.5x/2.5x maximum growth fractal series..
The Nikkei is at a 39/98/77 of 78 week :: x/2.5x/2x maximum growth fractal series.
This is timed with the end of a 1858 156 year US second fractal credit cycle. The nonlinearity of asset valuation collapse will be disastrously spectacular.
i don’t think most americans believe in that meritocracy anymore. just those who have good jobs.
but i also like to point out that if you have the most upward mobility in the history of man, you may reach a point where all those capable of moving up, have.
i don’t say that has happened here yet. but it seems to be a logical possibility that goes overlooked.
frankly, i want no part of either your “meritocracy” or your “upward mobility” as both of them assume the measure of man is money.
and as much as i don’t like what is happening in America today, I don’t believe there are any barriers to “upward mobility” that cannot be transcended or bypassed with even a moderate amount of initiative.
One needs to spend time with the wealthy members of our society to have a better sense of what they’re thinking and what makes them think as they do. I’ve spent the past sixteen years talking to the rich and richer about cars and in the process have listened to them talk about their views on life in general. No, unless you ask as a direct question as pollsters do, they don’t think too much about the deficit of government debt. If they’re experiencing a reversal of fortunes they may then dwell on such issues and it will likely be some combination of the two issues,debt and deficit, that is on their mind.
When your income crosses over that $500,000 mark, and that’s only what you admit to or count as earned income. Investment income isn’t even part of the count. Again, not unless there has been a recent reversal of fortune. When you have the wealth there is no great need to concern yourself with externalities. If and when those externalities reduce that wealth is time enough to become concerned. In the past five to ten years I’ve known of very few in this favored class who have had that kind of problem.
So why does a poll find that the wealthy are more concerned with debt and the deficit than with the general economy? Such questions are an intellectual exercise for the wealthy. They read the papers and they know the general meme regarding such issues. They know that public heavy weights focus on the need to control deficits and reduce, or at least not raise, taxes. how can you think of both ideas at the same time? Forget about the health of the economy and only focus on the health of one’s personal economy and it becomes clear. If you’re doing fine in the current economy then you’re not too concerned about “fixing what ain’t broke” in the economy that is. But you are concerned with keeping what you’re taking out of that economy so reducing taxes and spending are the best approach to deficit and debt issues. It’s that “I’ve worked for mine” point of view combined with “You need to find your own solutions” point of view.
Spend more time talking with very wealthy people. They won’t generally be talking about the economy unless you bring it up, and if you do the conversation will be short if your views differ from their own. See the rich are different. They have a lot more money. Think of it this way. If you”re lucky enough to be scrapping by on $100K annually imagine what life is like if it starts at $500K and the tax bight is not too dear. It changes your perspective. You suddenly recognize what a great guy you are and how brilliant you must be. Why else would you be earning so much more than most everyone else?
exactly. “balance the budget” is short hand (and mental short cut) for “cut taxes” and cut welfare and cut unemployment insurance and cut regulations
so i can make more money and keep what i got… and no, i don’t know much about what happens in the long run.
thing is, if you are king of the hill, and think you are smart, short run thinking is probably optimal for you.
see, “balancing the budget” by “raising taxes” is a contradiction in terms.
I was going to leave a comment about Hitler and Godwin’s Law, then I realized that Jack would admonish me for going off topic. It’s not just the wealthy that see balancing the budget by raising taxes is a contradiction in terms. I know an awful lot of middle class conservative types that make the same mistake.
sadly, the middle class gets it’s “ideas” from the people they want to be like.
probably the only people who don’t think higher taxes are bad are the people who expect someone else to pay them.
and you could learn a lot from Hitler.
I think more likely you can learn something about creating facts out of thin air from Goebbels, but it isn’t necessary to go back that far nor to reference long dead Nazis. We have a medis hell bent on doing the job and that media is given support by an industry of professional image makers that we call think tank research experts. The very term think tank is some what of an oxymoronic concept in that they are mostly organizations intended to prevent thinking.
The working class only knows what it reads in the newspaper and sees on TV. And they don’t do too much cross referencing or fact checking of their own.
i guess the advantage to thinking “hitler” in connection with “the big lie” is that people can read about hitler and goebbels and understand that they are the bad guys.
try to get them to read about present day bad guys, and half of them will think “but they are the good guys.”
but hopefully once they understand how an entire population of formerly decent… and well educated… people can be turned into a monstrous, evil society they might begin to see how it operates today in the land of the not so free and the home of the formerly brave.
Coberly, you said: probably the only people who don’t think higher taxes are bad are the people who expect someone else to pay them. Perhaps, but I don’t consider myself in that group. I’d be more than willing to pay more taxes,(80 cents a week), to “fix” SSI. I’d also be willing to pay more towards Medicare if it would help move us towards universal coverage. I’m in a bracket that takes a lot out of my check, and I can’t itemize deductions, and I’m not complaining. I consider myself fortunate.
I think the analogy to the Nazi regime of the ’30s and ’40s is too distant and too stark. It’s too easily criticized and then becomes part of the distraction from the primary issues, debt, deficits, taxation and a healthy economy. The analogy is unnecessary. The focus has to be on current dishonesty and its source. I was recently browsing an issue of Forbes which focused on charitable giving by extraordinarily wealthy people. Peter Peterson was highlighted for his charitable efforts as follows, “In 2008 he created the Peter G. Peterson Foundation with $1 billion to raise public awareness about the dangers of high deficits, excessive spending and entitlements.”
So there we have one of the most excessive efforts in history to distort economic issues described as though the benefactor were giving to charity. Granted that it was Forbes magazine, but the excess of the statement is still apparent.
you may be a tax hero.
personally i hate taxes as much as the next guy. but i don’t see SS as a “tax”, and i don’t think much of people who call for “tax the rich… but not me.”
the excess of the statement is breath taking and mind boggling. George Orwell would be proud.
You are of course right about “hitler” distracting from the argument.
but it sure makes it hard to talk about “s.x” without ever saying “s.x.”
in other words, the Big Lie “technique” is a real thing and it has a name… but i suppose i should not invoke the ghost of long dead leaders of one of our current allies and trading partners when i wish to call attention to the fact that our “press” is a constant conscious effort to distort our reality for their political purposes.
What was that payroll tax holiday that just expired all about? I realize that technically it is not a “tax.” I’d bet that if you asked 10 people on the street what is SSI withholding, you’d get 10 people to tell you it is a tax. It’s all about the messaging. I’m glad you and Jack were able to work Hitler and his acolytes into the discussion while staying on topic.
the tax holiday was a “stimulus” : thegovernment borrowingmoney to inject into the economy right away in the hope that people would spend it and business would boom.
in the first place a tax cut is not a good way to stimulate the economy: you are giving money to people who are already not spending. the payroll tax is the wrong tax… you are giving most of the money to people who already have most of the money.
and in the third place SS was dragged in for no reason at all… they could have given themoney to the taxpayers without mentioning SS at all… exactly so they would be able to say, “see, SS does increase the deficit.” only it wasn’t SS that increased the deficit. it was the tax holiday.
You’re preaching to the choir, brother. You’re welcome.