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Open thread Dec. 3, 2011

Dan Crawford | December 3, 2011 1:02 am

Tags: open thread Comments (22) | Digg Facebook Twitter |
22 Comments
  • ddrew2u says:
    December 3, 2011 at 9:54 am

    If there had never been a 9/11…

    …would one crazy little guy sneaking a few ounces of explosive on board an airplane have been able to set off a nation wide system of strip searching 800 million passengers a year and/or fondling 24 million of those a year (3% X 800 million) once X-rated-scanners are in place all over? This question will be begin my next anti-TSA screed, whatever month I get around to it.

    PS. My comment on “We Wont Fly” to a passenger’s complaint he was groped twice because a rookie TSA didn’t witness carefully enough the first time — was quickly followed by — my comment on my 89 year old mother’s own report (never a complainer) she was groped all over twice because the TSA sniffer was set off by he carry on (probably perfume) — second time out of public view (probably to avoid looking as stupid as it all was).

  • coberly says:
    December 3, 2011 at 10:12 am

    ah, ddrew

    don’t count on the gummint ever being not stupid.  sadly, this is where libertarians come from. however misguided.

    me.  i don’t fly.

    they probably wouldn’t let me if i tried.

  • jazzbumpa says:
    December 3, 2011 at 10:39 am

    As yet another companion piece to Mike’s post on a Libertatian Future, consider this by Michael Hudson.

    http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/12/debt-and-democracy-has-link-been-broken.html

    Cheers!
    JzB

  • jazzbumpa says:
    December 3, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Re: gummint being stupid.

    It’s stupid because it is a hierarchical organization made up of people.  Corporations, on the other hand, are brilliant and get everything right because they are  .  .  .

    .  .  .  hierarchical organizations made up of people.

    Sure, there is some self-selection, and all people are not created equal in terms of abilities, but the idea that gummint is inherently inferior to other organizations in some major way is simply reality denial.

    I’ve spent a lot of time with corporate executives.  In general, they are NOT a impressive bunch.   In that respect, Herman Cain is not atypical.

    Cheers!
    JzB

  • ilsm says:
    December 3, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    “Home of the pepper sprayed”  
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9OLLbC7zFs&feature=share
      
     
    And from Barry Ritholtz:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXHckAFMzaw&feature=player_embedded 

  • coberly says:
    December 3, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Jazz

    i spent a lot of time this morning talking about corporations with a person who knows one.  Yes, they are just as stupid as government, maybe more so.  But most people have to deal with government stupidity and don’t get to see corporate stupidity quite as clearly.  And of course, they think they have a choice about it. They don’t,  but there is no one on the radio telling them every day all day how much smarter than the corporations they are.

  • save_the_rustbelt says:
    December 3, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Blogger blegging:

    After resisting for a long time I am being talked into writing a managerial accounting themed paper on how employers should react to Obamacare – keep insurance or drop employees into the exchange and take the consequences. I want to look at both the quant information but also the qualitative (human resources, morale, etc.) issues.

    Anyone got any thoughts? Should I just run for the hills and hide? if the economy is still soggy how will play into the decision?

  • ilsm says:
    December 3, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Rusty, I am in temporary bachelor mode so…………

    Profit is the “impedimentum” of federally funded monopsony.

    Profit in non market situations is “impedimentum”, including the non markets on wall st.

    If enough employers drop employees’ health insurance then where goes the medical insurance cabal (MIC (med))?

    Between medicare and medicaid how much of the MIC (med) is federal (some state) monopsony?  Will the monopsony increase if employers dump into the pool?

    Can you evaluate the economics of the firm under federal monopsony?  It is recondite in the MIC (war) with socialized risk and privatized profit.

    How much of health spending is not subsidized, including the tax breaks from employer provided funding into the MIC (med)?

    From my experience, in the other MIC (war), with business case analysis (cost benefit analysis (BCA/CBA)) how do you maintain objectivity when you think sensitivity, risk, weighting etc?  And the ‘boss’ wants to build the trash despite its junkiness.

    Will the employers going away from the MIC (med) encourage the privatization of the safety net for the profit of the MIC (med) like privatizing arsenals in the war pillaging cabal?

    In the end crony capitalism arises, aka militarist or medicinal keynesian keeping the pillaging of the people much more “impedimentum” than justified.

    “Impedimentum” was what Julius Caesar called bagage which encumbered the poorly planned Gallic tribes’ movement. 

  • coberly says:
    December 4, 2011 at 10:13 am

    ilsm

    i don’t know much about the gallic tribes movements.  but the plains indians were encumbered with “baggage”… wives and children… when they tried to outrun the U.S.Cavalry.

    otherwise their planning was excellent.

  • coberly says:
    December 4, 2011 at 10:20 am

    no thoughts, but i was wondering what happens after the insurance companies all gear up for the mandate, and it turns out it doesn’t work, and maybe another congress repeals it?

    the “only” thing that prevents us from having a relatively rational health care system at half the present cost is the need to protect the existing insurance company / provider profits.

    it still seems to me the simplest way to begin to lower costs and provide universal coverage without disrupting the current system catastrophically would be for the government to take over the position currently occupied by “employers.”  that is write a health care plan and solicit bids from the insurance companies to handle large blocks of citizens selected randomly (for each block) without regard for prior condition.

    government oversight of contracts thus bid would provide the virtues of both free enterprise competition and government planning and protection of consumers.

    works for the highways.  maybe less well for the Pentagon.

  • ilsm says:
    December 4, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Whether Gaul in 60BC or Montana is 1876, it is always bad to be attacked at home by an organized avaricious enemy.

  • PJR says:
    December 4, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Rusty have you any thoughts regarding the implications if you find, analytically, that every employer “should” drop health insurance coverage?

  • Arne says:
    December 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    The corporation I work for has wasted more money than the school district where I participate on the budget committee.  But then, it is bigger.

  • coberly says:
    December 4, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    arne

    some days, as you know, i am grumpy.

    i have suspected at times that all the money we spend on education is wasted.

    you would not agree with me.  heck, even I would not agree with me.

    but i thought i’d mention it to give the idea of “wasted” a chance for a second thought.

    by definition corporations don’t waste money, because the people who buy what they are selling cover the costs… willingly.

    whereas the people who pay taxes are not willing, and usually don’t know what they are paying for, or smart enough to understand the benefit they get, if any.

    but i think there is evidence that the short horizon managers in business, just like the short horizon politicians in gumment, are going to reap what they sow.  and that shortly.

  • ddrew2u says:
    December 4, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Last I heard there were one (1) million Native Americans in the western plains in the 1860s (after Spanish diseases, working their way up from the Gulf, killed off nineteen million of them over the previous century).   
     
    That’s one per square mile.  I note the latter up because it is what I say to supporters of Israel who liken the ethnically cleansing of Palestinians in the West Bank to our settling of the American Midwest.  West Bank population density: one thousand Palestinians per square mile (who are not semi-nomadic hunter-gatherers).

  • save_the_rustbelt says:
    December 4, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    PJR: Just a bit.

    I  think (guess) in the early stages many employers, especially the larger ones, will stay with their plans for qualitative reasons (labor market competitiveness, morale, employee resistance to change, employer fear of a disaster, etc.). More likely smaller employers will ditch their plans if the numbers lean that way. Just a guess though.

    Ten years down the road, hard to say, although I doubt the current law will be in effect without at least some heavy amendments. What happens then I do not know.

    Lots of guess-timation here.

  • save_the_rustbelt says:
    December 4, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    As to your first question, both insurers and providers are wondering “what if” a lot.

    As to your second, could work, more along my line of thinking.

  • save_the_rustbelt says:
    December 4, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    Well, bachelors can watch sports and eat Doritos without objection….

    I have thought about the larger macro issues (a lot) but that is not my exact task here.

    Whatever we do, it will require experimentation and will evolve.

  • coberly says:
    December 4, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    ddrew

    population estimates vary.  census takers didn’t come back.

    the one million on the plains might be accurate. don’t know if the subtitle of the book pictured takes into account all those incas and aztecs and cherokees…  killed by disease and other innovations of both the Spanish and the Texans.

    But as you point out, the Palestinians have friends.  So a final solution may not be in Israel’s best interest.

  • Dan says:
    December 4, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Actually rusty, the evolving will have a fairt amount of dislocation, change of staffing patterns, etc. and general pain and anxiety even if we would have stayed the same before Obamacare….i see lots of changes in MA.

    Following issues on a more human scale than a strict macro level is sounds like a good idea.  I am hoping Maggie Mahar joins AB somehow to help with the issues as well.

  • ilsm says:
    December 4, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Vacation over in a week.

    Doritos are not on the “diet”.

    CBA models are in the firm’s side of the issue.

  • save_the_rustbelt says:
    December 4, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    I’m trying to get a handle on this at the individual employer level, and I’m not certain I can produce anything of value, but will give it a whirl.

    Small business employers seem genuinely confused, and too busy to worry about it right now, and hoping for future guidance.

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