Life insurance problem
by cactus
Last week I found out I was turned down for a life insurance policy. Some background – I’m 40, I don’t drink, smoke or take any drugs or pharmaceuticals, am neither overweight nor underweight according to any table you might look at, and I exercise vigorously an hour a day, rain or shine. I don’t have any life-threatening hobbies. Three of my grandparents lived into their nineties, as did most of my great grandparents. I have no debt other than a mortgage, but that plus property taxes comes to about 11% of my monthly income, so I don’t have any major money worries either. I’m a good candidate for living a very long time. But it seems my cholesterol level was too high.
Now here’s the interesting thing… the insurance company utilitysavingexpert.com sent someone over to do a physical at my house. When they called to make an appointment, I asked whether it was necessary to prepare in any way. Perhaps I should fast or something? After all, I had to do that before some physicals in the past. Not necessary to prepare in any way, I was told.
Fast forward a few weeks to when I got turned down. I did some checking on-line. It turns out that exercising for an hour thirty minutes before a cholesterol test is a fine way to boost one’s cholesterol level. And a few before that is another. Had I known this I would have done neither of these two things. Now, perhaps I should have figured out ahead of time that there hadn’t been any new advances in cholesterol testing since my last physical, but every so often I’ll succumb to trusting an expert. Big mistake.
Now, the insurance company has said they cannot give me the plan we discussed, but they can provide me with some other plans, plans that pay much less and cost quite a bit more. Which sounds to me like a rip-off. So the Chicago School would indicate that I should call some other life insurance company and go through the process with them. But just got lucky that I found the best life insurance for me upon checking out this life insurance brokers in NZ!
This time fasting for twelve hours prior to the test and abstaining from exercising that day. But there’s a problem… one of the first things a life insurance company wants to know when you call them up is whether you’ve ever been turned down for life insurance.
Its a neat little racket…
———————————–
by cactus
The real lesson here is to ALWAYS have one or two private physical exams conducted before applying for insurance. It’s a ready defense if reasonably current and it provides a warning for any potential problems that one may encounter in securing insurance. Same story applies if one is changing jobs and iis subject to drug screening as part of the entrance acceptance process.
Its a neat little racket…
You’re the one trying to game the physical. If you want insurance than pay the price, shop around, self insure and/or go without. I don’t know why you even wrote this column.
I am glad you wrote it. Thanks!
Thanks for writing this post.
What’s weird about this “nice little racket” is that they have just ruled out a member of what appears to be their most delectible market-share — a healthy intelligent younger person with no vices and pots of money.* That is, someone who can pay their premiums for a long long time. Would this perchance be the Stupid Life Insurance Company Inc, motto: “If you’re alive, you’re at risk of dying.”?
Or maybe they’re just hoping to get you to pay much larger premiums for a long long time.
Remind me of the law — do you have to buy US based life insurance, or do you have a wider choice, maybe international? Is there any interaction between life insurance and health insurance in the US? Not sure how that works.
Noni
*By my standards, anyway.
I am a little confused. Did they turn you down (decline to make an offer) or just make a counter-offer to your original offer? Trust me I see this every day. Would you care to name the company in question? Nonetheless apply with a different company and have a new physical or what is called in the business paramed. You need to make a cover note to the new company explaining exactly what happened with your application to the original company. You’ll be fine and if your cholesterol on the new exam is normal you’ll be offered good rates. A good agent would have prepared you for the exam. As a matter of fact we have brochures that explain to a proposed insured how to prepare for the exam. It’s not a racket, it’s just business. Do you know what the incidence of high CHL does to mortality? In addition I have never heard of a carrier declining coverage due to moderately elevated CHL. I’ve seen rates incrased 5-15% but never declined. Of course I don’t know what kind of coverage or carrier you applied to.
When Uffe Ravnskov went back and looked at the medical literature he found that on average elderly peopl;e with higher cholesterol live longer. So while the insurance sounds like a racket I wouldn’t lose sleep over your cholesterol, doubt your great grandparents tried to lower theirs. There is a write-up on cholesterol and over all mortality here for those interested.
http://healthjournalclub.blogspot.com/2009/10/do-people-with-high-cholesterol-live.html
cactus:
Many insurance companies share information regarding applications, so they’d likely know if you had applied elsewhere.
I think it’s a pretty widely held view in the medical community that increased CHL levels can lead to heart disease. Insurance companies do not share information but they do subscribe to something called the MIB. The MIB lets other companies know what underwriting results/decisions were for particular insureds. But the MIB does not share medical info. There are rules about sharing medical info,,,it’s called HIPPA. In terms of the interaction between life and health insurance most of the serious life players got out of the medical insurance game years ago. Some people buy life insurance written by carriers outside the U.S. Typically those are off-shore “private placement” policies which are really hedge funds wrapped by a life insurance contract domiclied off-shore. These are typically for the ultra wealthy. Generally speaking foreigners want to buy U.S. life insurance, not the other way around.
If you accepted their policy then you could reasonably say you weren’t turned down. Then you can look for another one with better rates to replace it, but only if you really want it in the first place.
Did you use an agent or do this on-line?
If you used an agent he/she should go to bat for you.
Cactus, I thouht you were smarter than that. Elevated cholesteral, regardless of the reason, is a factor in increased mortality. The blood sample taken was representtive of your typical blood chemestry as there was no ‘gaming’ of the test by you by fasting or behavior change. Instead of getting mad at the insurance company you should consider the action taken as a warning. Statistics indicate that you have a condidtion that will reduce your life expectancy. Be grateful you learned about this condition now instead of five or ten years from now.
I could help you if you lived in Tennessee. You can always ask they do another exam.
Take hemp seed oil capsules for a month. Apply to another company. Have a cholesterol; test. you’ll pass.
Man…just think if your were trying to buy health insurance…….!
“It’s not a racket, it’s just business. Do you know what the incidence of high CHL does to mortality?”
That correlational data will get you all the time. Try not to lose sight of the fact that most of the “research” on cholesterol levels and their ill effect was received financial support from the pharmaceutical industry.
It sounds like a bit of the old bait and switch routine. It may be to your advantage to have learned early, before signing on, that the particular company you had applied to isn’t exactly pure in its approach to its business. Besides, why do you want to bet that you’re going to die sooner than later? If you live a long life you will have wasted an awful ot of money. If you drop off early only your beneficiaries win. And how can you be sure that that company won’t then come up with some pre-existing condition rationale to welch on a bet they lost, as did you?
Oh, and Guest #1, you sound like a real jerk.
Jack,
Oh, and Guest #1, you sound like a real jerk.
I was guess #1 (surpised?). On the jerk thing do you want to explain why or is this another one of your non sequiters.
I’m want to start a scuba class that starts at the end of January and to start it you need to pass a 200 yead swim test swimming face down and without a rest break. The first time I jumped in the pool at the end of November I swam 25 yards doing the crawl and started back but thought I was about to drown, and headed for the side out of breath. Now I’m up to swimming 8 sets of 200 yards. Therefore, i’m pretty sure that I’ll pass the test without any problems. Moreover, on the day before the test I won’t do any exercise so I’ll be well rested. Thus without any gimicks, no chemical enhancement, no outlandish diet, I’ll just go out and pass the test without any tricks. It will be the real me. However, If I fail (which I can’t imagine now) it’s probably best that I not take scuba up as a hobby.
What Cactus should have done was to start earlier and try to adopt a healthy lifestyle to lower his bad cholesterol number. Moreover, like with my swimming he should have done it the old fashion way by going out and earning it rather than typing to pull a last minute stunt.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5747082_cholesterol-down-insurance-test.html
Step 1: Consume fewer foods containing LDL cholesterol.
Step 2: Exercise more.
Step 3: Eat more foods with high soluble fiber content. S
Step 4: Change unhealthy lifestyle habits. S
Step 5: Consume more foods with HDL cholesterol.
I hadn’t had a physical in a few years, but there’s no particular reason to assume anything is wrong with me. My HDL (“good cholesterol”) has always been elevated – another reason I’m going to live forever. The LDL was the problem in this particular test.
Goober,
It turns out the instructions for taking cholesterol tests are “fast for twelve hours prior to taking it.” That’s what doctors advise.
“I don’t know why you even wrote this column.”
I imagine you don’t know many things.
“Or maybe they’re just hoping to get you to pay much larger premiums for a long long time.”
That’s my guess. Generally if you’re planning to get life insurance and you aren’t expecting to die soon, you want it for a reason.
choices… no idea.
lj,
What they offered me was higher rates and lower payout quantity in the event of my death.
I have an appointment to see my doctor in the next couple of weeks. I plan to submit the results from that test to them.
As an FYI, on both sides of my family, everyone has high HDL (i.e., “good cholesterol”). Including the nonagenarians. And that included my great grandmother who made it to about 110. Like I said, I should live for a while.
I’m not particularly worried about dying. But we just bought a house – we’re frugal, so our payments are low (and its a fixed interest rate) but I still want to make sure my wife is OK should anything happen to me. She made a decision to follow me where my job went, which did a number on her earning potential.
ken,
As mentioned upthread, I have always had high HDL. It runs in both sides of my family, and on both sides of my family, they live much, much longer than average. They also do not die of heart attacks. I’ve heard of a two second cousins of my maternal grandmother having heart attacks in their 70s and 80s, but nobody else.
That said, I’ve always eaten healthy, but not out of fear of heart disease.
Cantab,
Clearly you have the reading comprehension skills of poodle.
Step 1. I eat healthy. Always have. Stated in the post.
Step 2. I exercise vigorously an hour every day. Stated in the post.
Step 3. Once again, I always have eaten healthy. Stated in the post.
Step 4. I have no unhealthy lifestyle habits. I don’t even drink wine. The closest thing to an unhealthy lifestyle habit is that I probably get in about half an hour of television viewing a month. Stated repeatedly in multiple posts.
Step 5. My HDL is and has always been very high. It runs in both my father’s and monther’s side of the family. The ones who die young make it to 90 for a reason.
I wasn’t gaming the system. The insurance company was gaming the system was gaming the system by telling me I didn’t have to fast, when any doctor would have told me otherwise. I trusted them.
You’d think that the insurance company would want pay more attention to the circumstances surrounding tests…afterall, they are the ones that have to pay for all those tests. Pretty poor return on their upfront investment. I think I’d keep reapplying just to see if you could teach them a lesson by racking up as many test costs as possible.
Cantab,
Your comparing the relationship between the importance of a test of physical stamina in the water to scuba diving safety and levels of cholesterol to late term health conditions (longevity) is further evidence of your obtuse thinking on these issues. The first relationship is direct and potentially immediate, a real and present safety issue. The other is the use of correlational studies carried out by vested interests and establishing debatable life and death relationships to justify rate gouging on the part of the insurance “business.” They are entitled to use any scam on just the near side of legality to produce their profits. I maintain that cactus is fortunate to have been made aware of the business practices of the business people he was about to cover his personal insurance needs with.
Given that these are complex issues without readily understood data to back up the claims of people who earn their profits by obscuring such issues, I’ll try to refrain from referring to you as a jerk. Insurance is a legal scam with a necessary purpose. Its something like needing to have hens to produce eggs and needing to protect said hens and hiring a group of foxes to protect said hens from the wolves. The hens are going to lose one way or the other.
Well just for the record, i think Cactus’ real problem is that he does not even drink wine. I suggest he check with the relatives who lived a long time and find out whether they were tee totalers too. I personally do not think that those who abstain from all vices, exercise regularly and eat healthy food all the time really live longer–it just seems longer. Seriously, I have gotten regular physicals and always kept my total cholestral below 200. I di the fasting bit but like cactus would typically exercise vigorously for an hour or more on the morning of the blood test. imagine my chagrin at having a heart scan showing a whole lot of calcium around my coronary arteries! Passed the stress test with flying colors–all that exercise you know, but now taking statins to get the bad cholestral under 60. Bottom line is that my dad had his first angioplasty at my age and his father died in his 70’s of heart disease. If I was the underwriter I would focus more on Cactus’s relatives than his total cholesteral particularly if his good stuff was elevated.
Jack,
My thinking is not obtuse since it’s just the basics of setting a goal and working for it. Cactus can clear up what he did but it sounds like is has border-line on his Cholesterol and tried to get a better number on the day of his physical by exercising, but then after the fact found this worked against him. So it really looks like he was trying to scam the insurance company but did a botched job of it.
The other is the use of correlation studies carried out by vested interests and establishing debatable life and death relationships to justify rate gouging on the part of the insurance “business.”
The relationship is not debatable since its backed by well established scientific research.
I’ll try to refrain from referring to you as a jerk.
Thank you Ghandi.
Insurance is a legal scam with a necessary purpose. Its something like needing to have hens to produce eggs and needing to protect said hens and hiring a group of foxes to protect said hens from the wolves. The hens are going to lose one way or the other.
It sounds to you the benefit are the eggs and the cost is the wolf. So you want more eggs and hold the wolf. Well, don’t all want that? The hen lost when nature made it become susceptible to adverse events. So blame nature, not insurance.
2slug,
Sure, and you’d think banks wouldn’t have kept the toxic crap they originated. It seems there are a lot of inefficient stupidly run businesses.
Terry,
My dad has taken up drinking red wine. I do take vitamins, including resveratrol. (I meant to say no pharmaceuticals except vitamins in the post, but see I forgot to mention the “except vitamins” bit.)
Cantab,
Are you really that incapable of understanding anything you read? I exercise an hour a day, every day. Every #$%#ing day. How difficult is that to comprehend? I jog when the weather permits. For when it doesn’t, the one “luxury” I have bought is a gym quality elliptical machine. And sometimes I jump rope in the garage. Either way, I make sure I get in a full hour of strenuous cardio a day.
Now, just like I did every day, I exercised. It says that in the post. There was no attempt to scam anyone. I was doing what I did every day.
Like I said, you have the reading comprehension of a poodle.
cactus
the game is bait and switch. your cholesterol had nothing to do with it.
on the other hand, may i recommend a dandy little insurance policy. it’s called Social Securtiy and there is no medical test. Or, didn’t the Congress just approve a health care reform that banned the use of “prior conditions”? No, of course not. How silly of me.
I don’t know if you are just rationalizing (even good guys do it) or if you have a better idea of your own health, or how to conduct a proper test, than the insurance company. but you may be looking at one reason why so many of us have refused to buy insurance and aren’t happy about being ordered to do so by a government that really can’t control the way insurance companies do business.
I recently had a conversation with my PCP on my LDL.
I am a bit older than cactus, have had my baseline cholsterol over 200 for over 20 years (first time tested), and my ratio not so good.
My PCP is an internist, very good my age with a very dry sense of humor.
“Did you know oatmeal, soluable fiber helps lower cholestrol and keeps you regualr” he said with a smile!
I always knew the first part from having been where they roll the oats in Iowa, the second part I already knew from observation, thank him very much.
He also said it bad LDL is 80% plus genetic, and that for me if I went vegan I might get it down a little.
All that fun aside these tests are notoriously variable.
Follow the rules and try again. But as you note once one company refuses to “bet you that you will die”, the others won’t either.
In my life circumstances I have only grown children, no wife (the GF is still the GF, more fun, but in the geriatric range what is the sense (?)) no mortgage and so am not willing to “bet with the creeps that I will die”.
cactus-What kind of policy is this? A higher rate and a lower pay-out? Wer you opting for installment payments instead of a lump-sum? What rate class were you quoted? Typically there are three or four “healthy” rate classes: Preferred Plus, Preferred, Standard Plus and Standard. If you were initially shown a Preferred Plus rate class that was probably unrealistic. In processing thousands of applications over the last decade less than 6-7% qualify for this rate class. I assume this is term coverage. I would stick to the “big” names most of us know…Met, Pru, Genworth, Lincoln Financial, Banner, Transamerica (tough underwriting), AXA/Equitable, West Coast Life. All of these have competitive term rates and decent underwriting. Don’t worry, keep applying with a variety of these carriers. It’s good to have a good ratio and HDL but you have to remember that the 99% of these low-cost term policies are reinsured and the direct writer must abide by the reinsurers underwriting guidelines. The smaller the company, the more likely it is the more onerous the reinsurance treaty. You’re doing the right thing in terms of strategy. Visit with your doctor, make sure everything is good and then reapply with a quality carrier. Use an agent. The ex-GF will appreciate your altruism and you’ll sleep better at night.
cob-You’re joking right? The survivor benefits of SSN are…shall we say pawltry? In addition aren’t those benefits monthly? I am a fairly high earner, am self-employed and have paid both my portion and my “employers” portion of the SS tax for years. (The max under the current cap formula.)If I died today my wife and three kids (one entering a state university this year) couldn’t survive on the SS survivors benefit. But with a couple of million in lump sum form they will be fine and be able to do the things they would have done while I was alive and earning. Of course I guess we’re both biased in favor of our preferred strategy!
Fasting for 12 hours is S.O.P for cholesterol tests, and I’ve known that for years (helps to come from a family with a medical background). I’m overweight, but my cholesterol results were excellent. The nonsense you went through really is a scam (and I’d be on the phone with the state medical board to complain about the doctor). My mother (a retired nurse) had more trouble with lab techs who can’t get lab orders right than anything else, showing elevated cholesterol and glucose when there really was none.
cactus,
You have now received varioous and sundry recommendations in regards to your experience with an insurance provider. It seems, however, that must of us, I include myself, have passed over the most significant sections of your description of the situation. Given that description I can only conclude that you are going to live to a ripe old age filled with dullness and exersion. What’s the point? First off you need to take Terry’s advice seriously. Lots of wine on a regular basis. Skip ilsm’s remarks about the rolled oats unless you’re planning to move in with an Amish family. Note that exercise is not excitement. it is only stress concentrated within a brief period, and it is not always good for you. Several people have succombed to heart attacks shortly after running the marathon.
To sum it all up, cactus. Worry less about financial security through insurance. You can buy a lot of lottery tickets for the cost of annual premiums. Drink lots more alcohol. Wines good. Buorbon is better. And stop stressing your body so much. You could pull a hamstring or worse.
And cantab,
“The relationship is not debatable since its backed by well established scientific research.”
Yes, that’s the best correlational research that pharmaceutical money can buy. A basic fact of statistical research, correlation does not prove causation. It only shows to what degree two events have occured in some relation to one another. Every time the air temperature goes over 90F the temperature indoors drops below 75F. Conclusion: the sunshine makes your living room cool off.
Ken,
Don’t oversimplify. The cholesterol test must be taken by protocol, and that includes fasting for 12 hours. Any results that don’t follow protocol are utterly worthless.
I opt for dark beers, there is a compound in whatever makes the beer dark which retards growth of tumors.
A chemical associated with cannabis has been proven to shrink tumors of the male prostate. Only bad for urologists, so why not use the medical benefits? I think you need to smoke a huge amount to get the health benefit, but there are brownies………….
Far out!
Red wine is cool.
Stone brewing co in San Diego brews my namesake beer: Arrogant Bas$%#^*.
It is not dark enough for the tumor prevention program but I do like to tell people about my favorite beer.
Cactus,
I wasn’t gaming the system. The insurance company was gaming the system was gaming the system by telling me I didn’t have to fast, when any doctor would have told me otherwise. I trusted them.
I don’t see how fasting makes you produce something close to your true average. Fasting, seems a highly unusal activity designed to produce a below average number. That’s what you wish you did isn’t it.
My goodness “Guest” you’re being a bonehead.
Here’s the Mayo Clinic on prepping for a cholesterol test: “You should fast (no food or liquids other than water) for nine to 12 hours before the test. You can drink water in the time leading up to the test, but avoid coffee, tea and other beverages.”
Noni
Cactus,
I still don’t understand why you would have to fast if this was not standard practice. Fasting lowers your triacylglycerol level so if the insurance test was not benchmarked for people who had fasted for 12 hours then you would have an unfair reading.
Not everyone in an insurance pool is equal. You should feel some satisfaction that part of the excess premium that you will pay is going to someone with serious health issues. This is going to happen with the healthcare bill. So why not with life insurance?
Jack,
Yes, that’s the best correlational research that pharmaceutical money can buy. A basic fact of statistical research, correlation does not prove causation.
The pharmaceutical industry pays for research but they don’t buy results – and i’m in a position to know this as fact.
You’re correct that correlation does not prove causation. However, most medical science is based on correlation or statistical measures of association, and you generally never have absolute proof, yet science and medical science in particular marches on with this imperfect tool.
“Skip ilsm’s remarks about the rolled oats unless you’re planning to move in with an Amish family.”
And miss the delectablity of properly made (self indulgent) oatmeal? Quelle horreur!
Bring to a boil 2 cups of water with a pinch of salt and a handful of raisins. Add 1 cup big flat rolled oats, the kind usually called slow, traditional or something like that. After stirring for a minute or so (don’t go in the next room! froth will ensue and cover your stovetop!) cover the saucepan closely and remove from heat and let it sit for 20 minutes or so.
Return, put oatmeal in a bowl and add dark brown sugar and cream. Enjoy the luxury.
What’s that? All that cream and sugar’s not healthy? Who said anything about health?
Mmmmm….
Noni,
My goodness “Guest” you’re being a bonehead.
Noni, sorry but you’re the bonehead. The insurance company does not calibrate their test based on fasting 12 hours before the exam. Had cactus fasted and nobody else did he would have had an advantage. It appears he did what everyone else did.
And cactus was also bonehead. If I wanted cheap insurance and knew I had an issue with Cholesterol I would have fasted. Are all liberals sheep that just listen to anyone trying to pass themselves off as an authority?
ilsm,
Are you one of those San Diego hippies?
“…anyone trying to pass themselves off as an authority…”
You mean like the Mayo Clinic?
TDSTL
Turning him down on the basis of a test that won’t hold up in court is rather boneheaded as well. Since they didn’t follow medically-accepted practice, the test is invalid for any purpose whatsoever.
Nice post. Before finalizing your insurance policy educate yourself about it. I came across this site, it seems to contain very informative and nice information and also gives you an option to compare quotes.
http://www.long-term-care-insurance-planners.com/information.html
Cantanb,
As has been posted upthread fasting is protocol for these tests. It is assumed that you fasted because doctors tell you to fast. Thus, the baseline results are predicated on you having fasted.
But based on past experience with you, I fully expect your next comment to be:
“See, you tried to cheat by fasting and failed.”
Because you either cannot or do not comprehend anything.
TDSTL,
Now you’ll get Cantab worked up into thinking the Mayo Clinic folks are socialists…
Cantab,
“I still don’t understand why you would have to fast if this was not standard practice. “
I’m sorry. At this point repeating this means you don’t have the reading comprehension skills of a poodle. They’re more akin to whatever is under the left boot of a sanitation worker after a long day.
I was quoted the preferred plus in the beginning. And frankly, given my health history… its possible that under normal circumstances I would qualify for something that takes 6 to 7% of the pop. I simply don’t have vices or risk factors, I don’t get sick, I eat healthy and exercise a lot, and folks in my family simply do not die unless they get hit by a truck.
The point of this post… if they could do this to me, they could do it to anyone.
As to the personal advice… I’m going to follow it. First step… getting my own cholesterol test just to make sure. That’s scheduled for the week after next.
“The pharmaceutical industry pays for research but they don’t buy results – and i’m in a position to know this as fact. “
Some years ago when I was an independent consultant, a big name firm wanted to take me on. Much of their work was for the pharma industry. I asked enough questions to realize that the pharma industry does buy results. (The key answer I still remember: “you can always turn down a project you don’t agree with and someone, but because someone else in the firm would have to do it, it wouldn’t be a good idea to make a habit of turning down projects.”) I turned down the job offer.
ciana,
Thanks.
Think about this for a moment : would you really want to buy a life insurance policy from a company like that? Chances are that they’ll go out of business before you do 😛 A life insurance policy for a 40 yr old male who doesn’t smoke is like ‘free money’ for 30 years.
Cactus,
I asked enough questions to realize that the pharma industry does buy results.
No, its like I said they buy research but not results.
Cantab,
You being nuts. I got a yearly physical from the time I was 19 until 43 curtesy of the USAF. They drew blood and urine every time and I was REQUIRED to fast 12 hours prior to the physicals. The doctors/nurses were emphatic about it since any food you had recently eaten could mess up the results.
Cactus you were poorly served by your agent and the testing system. Do it again correctly and you should have no problems…
Islam will change
coberly,
Survivor benefits are truely paltry and not nearly enough to cover most people families. Anyone with kids needs to be carrying term life insurance of some kind, plus long-term disability. Accidents happen, and your family shouldn’t lose their house and go to the poor farm becuase you die in a car wreck.
Islam will change
Buff,
You’re the one that’s nuts. I was in the army and I had several physicals including a flight physical. They never once asked us to fast for 12 hours before the physical. So what you’re saying is BS. I was not in the Air Force but I just don’t believe that you fasted for 12 hours every year before your physical between ages 19 and 43.
Cactus has a family history of high cholesterol. He has high cholesterol. He got a quote based on his health. The rate is the rate so he can either pay it or do without it.
Cactus,
you will go onto what is called MIB, this is readily available info for all LI companeis to look at, so there is less risk of lying from place to place. Get a trusted company to do your LI, not a phone in place that “shops for you” and gives you a 20 yr level term policy. Get a big name company, and explain to them your situation, then have them come out and test you with their own people. They will probably find out that you are not a risk. However, that being said LI companies have a mortality table, and if you have a certain cholesterol level, they plug you in to their chart and see you have a higher risk than most of dying young. They dont look case by case, they group risk as a class. So in your case you were grouped with high risk people because the underwriters saw your numbers and nothing else. Try Nortwestern Mutual, I have my LI through them and they were great with the process. Maybe Massachusetts Mutual or John Hancock.
Cactus,
But based on past experience with you, I fully expect your next comment to be:
“See, you tried to cheat by fasting and failed.”
I could not have said it better. Even with cheating could you have made it into the group with the best health rating and lowest rates? What if the insurance company checked with your physician?
By the way, I have a little advise for you. After 40 your physical health does nothing but go down hill. I stick with exercising but most people find a reason to quit.
Cactus,
Maybe you’re a toxic asset and they did not give you the best rating because they don’t want to be “inefficient stupidly run businesses.”
Cantab
a test of blood cholesterol without fasting is too “uncontrolled” to mean anything. there is a reason the Mayo people call for the 12 hour fast. Your intuition based on Army physical is worthless. You appear to have had no scientific training whatsoever.
little john
they could survive. of course life would not be worth living for them without the millions.
life insurance, beyond the basics, which social security provides, is a game for rich people. i don’t have too much sympathy for Cactus, but the fact is the non-fasting test is worthless. I assume the insurance companies know that, so requiring it is all just part of their marketing plan.
buff
actually I agree. i carried life insurance when my kids were still “unestablished.” but see my reply to little john above, or below depending on haloscan.
Cantab,
“The pharmaceutical industry pays for research but they don’t buy results – and i’m in a position to know this as fact.”
Is that a serious comment? You’re moving back towards that first cognitive category I had previously used. In research as in all walks of life, when it comes to human behavior you get what you pay for. Has the concept of the Rosenthal Effect never reached your research facility? It’s a bit old by now, but well establilshed. Remember that dog in front of the Victrola? He was listening for his master’s voice. While it is likely that the paid researcher, the ones being paid by private industry sources, never asks what results would best please the source of the funds. It is also unlikely that said paid researchers can avoid the foibles of the unintended consequence of knowing what one is looking for and the value of finding it. Look hard enough and you’ll find the answer to any question. The question will then be a matter of the validity of statistical manipulation and experimental design.
You can’t really have made that statement in any serious manner.
Jack,
Is that a serious comment?
Yes. I just finished a study for a pharmaceutical company that you would have heard of. They spent a lot of money on the study. However, the key result was that their drug was not materially better in terms of cost effectiveness in avoiding negative outcomes, extending life, and the quality of life.
What you say really does not make any sense when you think about what’s going on. The findings of the pharmaceutical sponsored research projects end up in peer reviewed journals and in presentations made to regulatory bodies. These people are not fools since many of them are doctors or PhDs in statistics or healthcare economics. Many doing the reviews have no affiliation with a pharmaceutical company and others have relationships with one or more pharmaceutical companies with competing products.
Has the concept of the Rosenthal Effect never reached your research facility?
No, I think that effect got trapped in the global warming reseach facilities.
“All that it takes for evil men to succeed is for all the good guys to get trapped showing their work in painful detail to people who can’t understand it.”
cantab,
I got a full flight physical every year from age 19 to 43. Every February like clockwork. Fasting started at 7pm, you showed up the next day at the flight doc at 7 am sharp along with all your other Birthday month buddies that week and gave a gallon of blood and had to fill a German beer mug with urine. (Ok I exaggerate – it was British Beer mug). The whole assembly-line process was designed to get everyone through by 8:30 pm and out the door. It not only included the above but a full body cavity physical, hearing and vision tests, EKG and lung capacity, probably some others I can’t remember. The only thing they didn’t do was dental which you scheduled seperately. And you lost your flight pay if you didn’t get it donw by the end of Feb.
So yes I remember quite well the entire process.
Islam will change
You know, I used to think based on some of the other threads that you were just being obstreperous. You have gone out of your way to demonstrate that isn’t the problem. I understand now.
hey if you still need life insurance reply back to me. I am a life agent and have several product lines you could qualify for.
sedwardsmyfax@gmail.com
While selecting an affordable medical insurance plan that has great coverage can be a difficult task, especially in the current state
of the economy, our health is still our most valuable asset and it is very important to protect it as much as possible.
We should make it even more essential to truly understand the importance of global medical insurance and who to go about finding it.
eating cactus is the bomb
do the research on cactus. It lowers blood sugar level if it is too high, brings down cholesterol andhas an abundance of fibers 6 to be precise. Don’t believe me check it out for your self to get personal confirmation. Talk to yall later about cactus
Most people should aim for an LDL level below 130 mg/dL (3.4 mmol/L). If you have other risk factors for heart disease, your target LDL may be below 100 mg/dL (2.6 mmol/L). If you’re at very high risk of heart disease, you may need to aim for an LDL level below 70 mg/dL (1.8 mmol/L). In general, the lower your LDL cholesterol level is, the better. There is no evidence that really low LDL cholesterol levels are harmful. ,.**
Be well
http://healthdigest101.com/
Sorry to hear about your experience the agent should have told you. When you take a life insurance exam it’s best to do it first thing in the morning before you eat or drink anything. Also, NO EXERCISE until after the exam. If you reapply with another company and have good results and you can show from previous physicals from your doctor that your cholesterol was normal than you should be fine.