VP Debate Live Bloggin’
– Hmm. They just shook hands on camera; I read they weren’t going to do that.
– FYI, Here’s Condoleeza Rice talking about tonight’s moderator, Gwen Ifill:
RICE: Thank you very much. I’d like to thank Gwen for that wonderful
introduction. And even if you aren’t getting invited, I can tell you that she is, in fact, an excellent cook. I’ve been able to partake of that since I’ve been in Washington.
– Cheney: I’d do it [Iraq] all over again.
Edward’s first line: “Mr. Vice President, you still are not being straight with the American people.” Then some evidence and examples. Aggressive start, this should be good. Cite Dick Lugar (R-IN).
– Edwards: “MR. VP., there is no connection between the attacks of September 11th and Saddam Hussein.” Cite 9/11 commission, cite Powell. Basically said Cheney is wandering the country lying. Then cite Rummy yesterday.
– Edwards just confused OBL and SH (something for which Bush caught some flack).
– Whoa! Cheney: “I have not suggested there’s a connection between Iraq and the 9/11.” Start your Lexis/Nexis engines!
– Blogger is really slow right now. In the meantime, amuse yourself by watching for Cheney to say they took down the AQ Kahn network.
– Edwards: “Someone did get it wrong, but it wasn’t John Kerry and John Edwards. They got it wrong.” (Letting OBL escape in Afghanistan). Also gave a good accounting of Kerry’s “global test” line. Followed by an accounting of the continuing problems in Afghanistan. Cheney responds by talking about El Salvador and the human drive for freedom.
– Ifill: What is a “global test” if not a global veto? Edwards: “He also said no veto” then explains that this means, basically, tell the truth. In fact, Edward’s is at least echoing Mark Kleiman’s proposed Kerry Doctrine:
Defend the country. Promote freedom. Pay attention to the facts. Listen to the experts. Make sure your buddies have your back. Plan for victory. Tell the truth.
– Cheney responds: We’re not paying 90% of the costs, it’s more like 50% (because of all the Iraqi’s in security jobs who are dying). But query: can citizens of a country be a member of the coalition that is invading that country. It’s getting ugly right now. Cheney says Edwards is “just wrong”, “probably wasn’t there” for a vote, not consistent…
– Objectively, Cheney is acquitting himself well. So is Edwards. Looks like it’s going to be a draw. Since Bush got smashed last week, a draw tonight will likely be spun as a big victory for BC04.
– Novel Edwards proposal: Taking Iraqis out of Iraq.
– Edwards: “They sent 40k troops into Iraq without the body armor they needed … the height of hypocrisy.”
Cheney: “Hard to know where to start, there’s so many inaccuracies. The fact of the matter is the troops wouldn’t have what they have today if you guys had had your way.” He also made the silly claim that the Gulf War II coalition is just as strong as that from GWI because they contain the same number of countries.
Edwards: regardless of what the VP says, we’re at $200b and counting (GWI was $5b) and bearing 90% of the casualties. DC says JE is demeaning dead Iraqis by saying we’re bearing 90% of the casualties. I’d say that citizens of country X, by definition, can’t really be part of the invasion to liberate themselves.
– Cheney is harping on Zarqawi. Will Edwards bring up Zarqawi being let go before the war, or would that be too tinfoil-hat like?
– Edwards: “There are 60 countries with members of al Qaeda in them. How many of them are we going to invade?” On Iran sanctions, Edwards just mentioned Halliburton doing business with Iran and Libya under Cheney, as well as no bid contracts. Cheney says it would take more than 30 seconds to respond and sends viewers to “factcheck.com” for the facts on Halliburton. (I believe the VP means factcheck.org.)
– “Senator, frankly you have a record in the Senate that’s not very distinguished…missed 33/36 Judiciary Committee meetings, almost 70% of Intelligence Committee meetings…lot of key votes.” Edwards: “That was a complete distortion of my record” Mentions Cheney being against HeadStart, DOE, Meals on Wheels for Seniors, MLK day, against a resolution calling for Nelson Mandela’s release…”it’s amazing to hear him criticize either my record or John Kerry’s.” Nice answer.
– Cheney just said that he believes Saddam being out of power has reduced the number of suicide bombings in Israel.
– Now on to the Domestic debate.
– In his first answer, Cheney brought up, among many other things, “litigation costs” — perhaps foreshadowing an upcoming attack? But Cheney’s emphasizing NCLB. (though, as Edwards pointed out, the question was actually about *Jobs*). NCLB has, I think, mixed results. But it’s easy to see why Cheney would rather talk about NCLB than about jobs.
– “Mr. Vice President, I don’t think the country can take four more years of this [bad economy].” Delivery was a bit flat, though.
– Now on to the Domestic debate.
– In his first answer, Cheney brought up, among many other things, “litigation costs” — perhaps foreshadowing an upcoming attack? But Cheney’s emphasizing NCLB (though, as Edwards pointed out, the question was actually about *Jobs*). NCLB has, I think, mixed results. But it’s fairly easy to see why Cheney would rather talk about NCLB than about jobs.
– “Mr. Vice President, I don’t think the country can take four more years of this [bad economy].” Delivery was a bit flat, though.
– Sheesh. Even Edwards uses the “tax relief” phrase. Will he cite the “death tax” next? Cheney just said Kerry voted for tax increases 98 times? I thought it was 300? Is Cheney flip-flopping on how aggressively John Kerry raises taxes?
– Cheney asked about same-sex marriage. Says it should be up to the states, but the president makes the policy and he supports him.
– Cheney passes on the chance to directly attack Edwards for having been a trial lawyer (says he doesn’t know about Edwards cases), but waxes on about the need for tort reform. Edwards replies with a proposal for a review panel (to keep frivolous cases out of the courts) and his story of Valerie Lakey. Points out that lawsuit-related costs account for about ½ of one percent of health care costs.
– Ifill asks Edwards’ about his lack of experience. Edwards: Americans want to know three things about their VP and President: keep them safe, good judgement, and telling the truth. Basically says he has fits the bill and that, while he lacks Cheney’s long resume, a long resume doesn’t imply good judgement.
– Edwards really isn’t doing particularly well (not terribly, either), and he seems to know it. I’ve had this happen when I’m teaching: my rhythm gets off, then I can sense that I’m losing the room, keeping my rhythm off, and so on. It’s hard to break out of, even when the material is good.
– Ifill to Edwards: “You just used John Kerry’s name [which her question had asked him not to do.” I believe she’s about to pull out a bottle of Rum 151 and make him do a shot. He just said “Kerry” again. That’s two shots.
– Cheney just brought out the $87 billion, again. Will somebody please point out that President Bush threatened, more than once, to veto that $87 billion? And Bush rarely issues veto threats, so Bush must have been really opposed to funding the troops.
– Is it true that 1/2 of African-Americans and Hispanics drop out of high school, as Edwards just said?
****
Well, that was boring. Right now, I’m yearning for Bush’s blinking and scowling. To reiterate, I don’t think Edwards did badly, just that he came off flat, particularly compared to expectations. Cheney didn’t do well spectacularly well, either. But he didn’t have his typical hard edge, or at least it wasn’t showing. So from an objective point of view, the debate was close to a tie. Which I suspect the late night yammerers will declare a BC04 victory.
Of course, VP debates don’t really matter. Lloyd Bentson destroyed Dan Quayle, and we know how that worked out for Dukakis. Cheney beat Lieberman in 2000, too, yet Gore won under most non-Supreme Court metrics.
AB
UPDATE: Scanning the coverage, and seeing these numbers at Brad’s blog, it looks like the lefty bloggers — and much more importantly, debate viewers in general — liked Edwards a lot more than I did. Kevin Drum initially had a reaction similar to mine, which after reflection he somewhat revised in Edwards’ favor:
You know, after taking the time to write all this stuff down, I’m beginning to think Edwards did better than I initially gave him credit for. Basically, he put Cheney on the defensive on Iraq and demonstrated clear superiority on domestic issues. That’s not bad.
So score it a modest victory for Edwards, especially since he was the one who had to prove he could hold his own.
Perhaps I’ll also have to change my mind. I do think it was telling that Cheney rarely mentioned Bush by name whereas Edwards, literally at times, could not stop mentioning Kerry’s name.