Essential Healthcare for Women
Conversation pulled from the comments section relating to Infidel’s Ding dong . . . . post. This is an opinion piece, an opinion piece in which I agree. Commenter dd explains what it is like to have your life and rights compromised by the courts, state legislatures, and the people around you who are denying you essential healthcare.
dd: “Democrats have a major opportunity, and they should ignore the religious nonsense.
Do you know how many women including myself understand they are living because of science? I’m in the south right now and everyone is so used to lying about everything to conform with religious dissonance, but the bottom line is women don’t want to die, don’t want to abandon their living children and pretty much are shrugging off the old eve’s sin bs. They won’t say it; but they’ll vote to live.”
Another commenter;
“this hurts because most of the time when “religious” people hear attacks on “religion” they are not women thinking about abortion, but people in general thinking about their hopes for a better world (perhaps in the here and now, and not just in the bye and bye) and then they get fierce defending it, maybe because they don’t quite believe it themselves, but it’s all they have.”
dd: “No, it’s not all they have and yes, religion is to blame and them hurting is hardly a reason to deny medical care.
This is not about abortion it’s about science finding solutions to complex problems that religion rejects because it takes cash away from them and redirects to science. Women don’t cling to religion because they have “hopes” for a better world they cling to it because it gives them cover to accept their victimization as god’s will. Therefore they can avoid the hard work of maturity and truly making a better world for their children.
It takes hard mental and emotional work to overcome years of religious indoctrination that instills nothing but fear and even fear of fear. Then even harder work to realize that all of these religions hide behind the truly spiritual and claim it as their own; for one purpose only: cash and prizes! The Bakers, the popes, Billy Graham and the whole lot of them turned religion into a cash cow.
We’re now at the point where republican policy is killing women and girls and all the major religions are in total agreement. Forget medicine, science, and all the advancements. Women and girls must die because religion says so and republicans agree.
I would be dead without modern medicine many times over and all related to reproduction. Science, amazing doctors and modern medicine saved me: 50 years of amazing advancements that major religions and the republican party want to wipe away. It’s medieval and disgusting and it’s for the money.
So what happens next? States like Texas and Indiana will find an exodus of medical providers. What more evidence does one need that this is not about abortion but about science upending the easy cash cow and the politicians don’t care for now; but I foresee the party of “no regulation” becoming the party of massive medical regulations to prevent providers from leaving and decertifying of their medical institutions. The procedure for abortion is the same as the procedure for a miscarriage how to know which one is okay? Even in a miscarriage the cellular mass may still be ‘living’ even as the mother is bleeding to death and has become infected because that what happens and how women die.
The only positive is that all us ancient feminists are reenergized, and our daughters and granddaughters are ready too. As we know,
‘If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.’”
Republicans don’t know from sex.
It was kind of you to use my comments in a post.
I would also point out that major businesses have responded including Eli Lily,
““Despite this lack of agreement, Indiana has opted to quickly adopt one of the most restrictive anti-abortion laws in the United States,” Eli Lilly said. “We are concerned that this law will hinder Lilly’s — and Indiana’s — ability to attract diverse scientific, engineering and business talent from around the world. Given this new law, we will be forced to plan for more employment growth outside our home state.” https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/06/eli-lilly-says-indianas-abortion-law-will-lead-the-drugmaker-to-grow-in-other-states.html
Then there is the blowback from all the drugs that have abortifacient side-effects. It impacts everything from RA to cancer treatments. Will the anti-science party outlaw those treatments? Will pharmacies refuse to fill those prescriptions?
The fallout has only started.
dd
This was the third highest post for views. You were read!
As the “other commenter” who is quoted here, I hope the owner of this blog will allow me to point out that he and “dd” appear not to have understood what I was saying.
To start with, I agree entirely with dd that “men” have no business telling women what they can do with their bodies, Similarly, I believe that “we”, “the government.” have no business telling women, or men, what they can do with their bodies..
I need to go further and say that I know that “some religions” are abusive, and some men are abusive, but I beileve that attacks on “religion” in general, and “men” in general, are politically counterproductive. Moreover, they are wrong. “Religion”, like “men,” has/have an important place in our lives and democracy. I have personally never been involved in an abusive religion, or with abusive men. I am sure they exist, but most…maybe all that i have known well enough to know…are pretty decent toward women. The same is true of the “religious” people I have known. Perhaps it is just because I instinctively avoid abusive people.
As for “all they have,” that is how some people feel when life has been especially hard for them. I don’t think it is kind to try to take their hope away from them, however foolish it seems to us.
Nothing I have said can reasonably be taken to mean that I favor depriving women of the medical care and science that can save their lives. Yes, I know the pregnancy and childbirth are dangerous.
Since I have been accused of “hijacking” the original thread in which “dd” made her claims, I will refrain from commenting further on this one. But I think a sense of decency, if not logic, would suggest to the owner of this blog that is is only fair to allow this attempt to explain what I was trying to say.
Dale:
A simple, I am sorry I did not understand might have sufficed. Now, you are digging a deeper hole and clearly showing you lack the understanding and are unwilling to admit to it. I am asking you not to post again.
Life has been hard for many many people at various times in their lives and your sense of decency is about trying to justify what can not be justified. Many of us have had hard lives, have slept on the floor, had no bed and generally got on with it. I have no problem with what others want to believe but when it impinges on the freedoms of others it needs to be stopped. You can believe whatever you wish but your freedom to believe ends at the life of others. None should be denied medical care for what others believe; but here we are. Millions who have to go through religious hoops to get methotrexate because of its side effects. Ironically, millions of women who wish to get pregnant will be deprived of the opportunity. Texas has (had) one of the most amazing geniuses ever on infertility. An absolute genius who brought many a new life into being; but that’s over.
What does “pretty decent towards women” even mean? Are we not equal citizens?
What is it you’re trying to say? That millions should be denied medical care because of other peoples’ beliefs and that their feelings will be hurt?
dd
Such calmness while I am raging internally. Dan, the owner of the blog will not support Coberly’s thoughts. Infidel did not either on the earlier post to which you posted. I do not get it right 100% of the time and have to own up to things too at times. Not that you need my agreement, your answer is 100% on the mark. I support it as does Dan.
I think where the dissonance lies is, ” all the religious people i know treat women like equal citizens.” Do they treat them as equals? I fought long and hard for women to be treated as equals in religion and major religions have no interest; and so that undermines every notion of women being equal citizens as the religious laws will also supersede the secular in the religious mindset.
dd
I think for many of us, it is called equal rights 101.
Many of us do not get it. I am not that religious. When to church associated with the Northern Baptists, all boys high school, educated by the Christian Brothers (Lasallian college) and the Jesuits, XMarine. From the time I was 13 till the time I was 22 an all male environment or harsher religious approaches.
I missed that equal rights 101 life and class. Fifty-one years later and I am still corrected. 🙂
Dan here…just got back to home in Boston from Chicago…
dd, Welcome to AB/
Thank you for the welcome. I have followed this blog since its inception along with Economist View, Bonddad, Digby, Atrois, Crooked timber, and many others including the right wing guys like Grannis and Counfounded Interest and Jesse, who’s having religious struggle of sorts. It was about following markets and economics; not so much feminism (as that was a long ago time). But here we are. As for Coberly, I get it and where he’s coming from; it’s what I grew up with and one can not be opposed to the voicing of those opinions. I get what he saying; but beliefs even couched in the best of religious intentions have no place in a democracy of equals.
Anyway, thanks for letting me have my say. See you at the Supreme Court protesting. I plan to be there in January because there will be only more coming down the pike!
dd:
If you accept? It would be kind of cool for you to report on it on the blog? Make a comment on the Open Thread or on this particular post and I will post it for you. Welcome back to AB if you commented before. If not, we look forward to your words.
It doesn’t matter what this court comes up with going forward. Nothing they do hence Dobbs will be meaningful. All decisions by these six will be tainted by Dobbs. They blew it.
Looking back, nothing the Roberts Court has done, Heller, Citizens, Shelby, Holder, Rucho, …, will stand.
Ken:
I hope you are right. A couple of decades may pass before we get a crack at changing much of what you mention.
dd:
A bit of George Carlin for you . . .
“I frankly don’t give a f*ck how it all turns out in this country—or anywhere else, for that matter. I think the human game was up a long time ago (when the high priests and traders took over), and now we’re just playing out the string. And that is, of course, precisely what I find so amusing: the slow circling of the drain by a once promising species.”
[video src="http://kysq.org/docs/Carlin.mp4" /]