I don’t understand why people have such a hard time believing that there is no such thing as an “independent” voter. Sure, a lot of people register as an independent, but that certainly does not mean they vote for one party or the other depending on the candidates and/or circumstances.
Plenty of studies have shown that independent voters are even more loyal to one party or the other than party registered voters. In other words, when they vote, they vote for just one party.
And polls show the exact same thing whenever they appear. Like this:
“The new poll also finds majorities of Americans view each of the charges on which Trump will face trial as true: 58% say Trump abused the power of the presidency to obtain an improper personal political benefit and 57% say it is true that he obstructed the House of Representatives in its impeachment inquiry.
Massive partisan gaps continue to dominate views on Trump and his impeachment trial. Overall, 89% of Democrats say he should be removed from office, while just 8% of Republicans feel the same way. Among independents, it’s nearly dead even: 48% say the Senate should vote to remove him, while 46% say that they should not. Views on whether Trump should be impeached and removed are also evenly split across battleground states, 49% are on each side across the 15 states decided by 8 points or less in 2016. Those states are Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin.”
What this means is that half of independent voters are Dems and half are Reps. It shows the folly in attempting to attain independent votes desires, which always leads to a centrist stance. Dems need to cater to their progressive goals, and the half of the independents who are really Dem voters will follow along. And half of the independents who are Rep voters will shy away. It’s not like they are going to vote Dem in their lifetime.
That’s a hateful term when it is 15 degrees warmer than yesterday and still only in the mid 20’s.
I never thought I would have to shovel snow again. Tried for two weeks to get a snow removal company. All I could get was the driveway cleared(big deal).
I guess it is just a sign of my age, but when I was a kid and a snowstorm hit, I was out roaming the neighborhood with a friend or two trying to pick up cash for shoveling.
Didn’t see one such kid this weekend. I wonder if it still exists anywhere?
I will ask my son and see if he knows of any. He is south of you. His wife lived up there. My snow thrower broke this last go around. Getting it repaired. I might be doing the same as you.
” Few things are more frustrating than people jabbering about what “independents” think, want, or believe. This idea that there are people today who truly swing between voting for Democrats and voting for Republicans doesn’t pass the anything test. Do you really know someone like this, an informed voter who regularly swings wildly between the two parties?
Yes, there are people who call themselves independent. They are the tea party conservatives, too cool to be Republicans, yet always pulling the lever for the GOP. There are the Bernie-type liberals, also too cool and pure to sully themselves by belonging to a party, yet when it comes time to vote, they wouldn’t vote for a Republican to save their lives.
And yes, there are “independents” who, generally, are too apathetic to care enough to realize that there are real differences between the two parties, and might swing. But that kind of person is also very likely to, you know, not vote at all.
And while this all sounds anecdotal, it’s not. It’s in the findings of the latest Pew Research study on so-called independents.
Top line? Only 7% of Americans are true independents—individuals who genuinely don’t lean toward either of the two major parties. And of those? Only 33% voted in 2018! That is, only 2.3% of real independents even bothered to vote!
So next time you see someone fretting about how this or that policy or message is selling to “independents,” remember that we’re talking about 2-3% of voters. If you’re worried about appealing to that crowd, as opposed to your core base, then you’re doing it wrong. Truly wrong. Really, really, really wrong.
Meanwhile, another example of what has happened to this country as a result of McConnell and Trump.
” Supreme Court Will Not Take Up Obamacare Challenge Before Election
The court punted the decision to next term.
By Sara Boboltz
The Supreme Court signaled Tuesday that it will not take up a challenge to the Affordable Care Act before the 2020 presidential election.
At issue is whether the 2017 Republican tax cut, which reduced the law’s individual mandate to zero, introduced a constitutional flaw that requires invalidating the entire program. Projections suggest 20 million people could lose insurance if the law prevails, as it did in the lower courts.”
The Supreme Court is just another arm of the GOP. And the lower court decision is inane and childish.
“A Case That Should Have Been Laughed Out of Court May Kill Obamacare
An appeals court ruled yesterday that the health-care law contains a constitutional flaw—and that most or all of the law may have to be scrapped.
In an opinion blending arrogance and cowardice in equal measure, an appeals court ruled yesterday that the Affordable Care Act contains a constitutional flaw—and that most or all of the law may have to be scrapped. But the court was coy about just how much of the law has to go, and punted that decision back to the same judge who, last December, declared the entire law invalid.
What happens next is uncertain. The Supreme Court might choose to hear the case, Texas v. United States, right away, setting up a constitutional showdown that could become the centerpiece of the 2020 presidential election. Or the justices could wait until the lower court rules, leaving the fate of Obamacare in limbo for years.
Neither outcome is good. And it’s all completely unnecessary. The case is a partisan stunt that’s been roundly condemned by lawyers on both sides of the aisle. It should’ve been laughed out of contention long ago. The opinion from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit is an embarrassment, both to the Republican-appointed judges who put their names to it and to the federal judiciary as a whole. (The third judge on the panel, appointed by Jimmy Carter, dissented vehemently.)”
since the subject came up, i have made 5 attempts to shovel my drive out in the past few days, and have less than half of it done and a sore back to show for the effort…the guy who has plowed here the past twenty years did not show up this year, & is not answering his phone…
I am older now and still do my own. I own a snow thrower which I picked up to maintain my independence. If you can, do the same. You “still” need a fall back for when people or family can fail you.
I don’t understand why people have such a hard time believing that there is no such thing as an “independent” voter. Sure, a lot of people register as an independent, but that certainly does not mean they vote for one party or the other depending on the candidates and/or circumstances.
Plenty of studies have shown that independent voters are even more loyal to one party or the other than party registered voters. In other words, when they vote, they vote for just one party.
And polls show the exact same thing whenever they appear. Like this:
“The new poll also finds majorities of Americans view each of the charges on which Trump will face trial as true: 58% say Trump abused the power of the presidency to obtain an improper personal political benefit and 57% say it is true that he obstructed the House of Representatives in its impeachment inquiry.
Massive partisan gaps continue to dominate views on Trump and his impeachment trial. Overall, 89% of Democrats say he should be removed from office, while just 8% of Republicans feel the same way. Among independents, it’s nearly dead even: 48% say the Senate should vote to remove him, while 46% say that they should not. Views on whether Trump should be impeached and removed are also evenly split across battleground states, 49% are on each side across the 15 states decided by 8 points or less in 2016. Those states are Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin.”
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/20/politics/cnn-poll-trump-impeachment/index.html
What this means is that half of independent voters are Dems and half are Reps. It shows the folly in attempting to attain independent votes desires, which always leads to a centrist stance. Dems need to cater to their progressive goals, and the half of the independents who are really Dem voters will follow along. And half of the independents who are Rep voters will shy away. It’s not like they are going to vote Dem in their lifetime.
Good morning Midwesterner. Putting this one up.
That’s a hateful term when it is 15 degrees warmer than yesterday and still only in the mid 20’s.
I never thought I would have to shovel snow again. Tried for two weeks to get a snow removal company. All I could get was the driveway cleared(big deal).
I guess it is just a sign of my age, but when I was a kid and a snowstorm hit, I was out roaming the neighborhood with a friend or two trying to pick up cash for shoveling.
Didn’t see one such kid this weekend. I wonder if it still exists anywhere?
I will ask my son and see if he knows of any. He is south of you. His wife lived up there. My snow thrower broke this last go around. Getting it repaired. I might be doing the same as you.
Here’s the truth.
” Few things are more frustrating than people jabbering about what “independents” think, want, or believe. This idea that there are people today who truly swing between voting for Democrats and voting for Republicans doesn’t pass the anything test. Do you really know someone like this, an informed voter who regularly swings wildly between the two parties?
Yes, there are people who call themselves independent. They are the tea party conservatives, too cool to be Republicans, yet always pulling the lever for the GOP. There are the Bernie-type liberals, also too cool and pure to sully themselves by belonging to a party, yet when it comes time to vote, they wouldn’t vote for a Republican to save their lives.
And yes, there are “independents” who, generally, are too apathetic to care enough to realize that there are real differences between the two parties, and might swing. But that kind of person is also very likely to, you know, not vote at all.
And while this all sounds anecdotal, it’s not. It’s in the findings of the latest Pew Research study on so-called independents.
Top line? Only 7% of Americans are true independents—individuals who genuinely don’t lean toward either of the two major parties. And of those? Only 33% voted in 2018! That is, only 2.3% of real independents even bothered to vote!
So next time you see someone fretting about how this or that policy or message is selling to “independents,” remember that we’re talking about 2-3% of voters. If you’re worried about appealing to that crowd, as opposed to your core base, then you’re doing it wrong. Truly wrong. Really, really, really wrong.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/30/1861458/-Pew-confirms-it-there-s-no-real-such-thing-as-an-independent-voter
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/05/15/facts-about-us-political-independents/
Meanwhile, another example of what has happened to this country as a result of McConnell and Trump.
” Supreme Court Will Not Take Up Obamacare Challenge Before Election
The court punted the decision to next term.
By Sara Boboltz
The Supreme Court signaled Tuesday that it will not take up a challenge to the Affordable Care Act before the 2020 presidential election.
At issue is whether the 2017 Republican tax cut, which reduced the law’s individual mandate to zero, introduced a constitutional flaw that requires invalidating the entire program. Projections suggest 20 million people could lose insurance if the law prevails, as it did in the lower courts.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obamacare-supreme-court-2020-election_n_5e270f20c5b673621f7c5b5c
The Supreme Court is just another arm of the GOP. And the lower court decision is inane and childish.
“A Case That Should Have Been Laughed Out of Court May Kill Obamacare
An appeals court ruled yesterday that the health-care law contains a constitutional flaw—and that most or all of the law may have to be scrapped.
In an opinion blending arrogance and cowardice in equal measure, an appeals court ruled yesterday that the Affordable Care Act contains a constitutional flaw—and that most or all of the law may have to be scrapped. But the court was coy about just how much of the law has to go, and punted that decision back to the same judge who, last December, declared the entire law invalid.
What happens next is uncertain. The Supreme Court might choose to hear the case, Texas v. United States, right away, setting up a constitutional showdown that could become the centerpiece of the 2020 presidential election. Or the justices could wait until the lower court rules, leaving the fate of Obamacare in limbo for years.
Neither outcome is good. And it’s all completely unnecessary. The case is a partisan stunt that’s been roundly condemned by lawyers on both sides of the aisle. It should’ve been laughed out of contention long ago. The opinion from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit is an embarrassment, both to the Republican-appointed judges who put their names to it and to the federal judiciary as a whole. (The third judge on the panel, appointed by Jimmy Carter, dissented vehemently.)”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/affordable-care-acts-unconstitutional-flaw/603871/
They know what they are going to do, but they refuse to make it an issue before the election.
As we talk about reforming our healthcare, we seem to not realize that the Supreme Court, not Congress, will make that decision.
We are totally screwed.
I just saw that too.
I don’t think that matters. Nothing changes in healthcare. It’s noise.
Yeah, that noise allowed 25,000 Americans a year to live. And many more to update their quality of life, and we can do better.
What a maroon.
If independent people want to vote for 3 or 4 and the only option is 1 or 5, are they less independent because they do choose?
since the subject came up, i have made 5 attempts to shovel my drive out in the past few days, and have less than half of it done and a sore back to show for the effort…the guy who has plowed here the past twenty years did not show up this year, & is not answering his phone…
rjs:
I am older now and still do my own. I own a snow thrower which I picked up to maintain my independence. If you can, do the same. You “still” need a fall back for when people or family can fail you.
Arne,
The point is that the vast amount of independents will vote for either a Dem or a Rep, regardless of whether it is 1,5, 3 or 4.
They are independents in registration only.