Our President Talking About Immigration
“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” Trump said, according to these people, referring to African countries and Haiti. He then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries like Norway, whose prime minister he met Wednesday.
and the excuse?
“Certain Washington politicians choose to fight for foreign countries, but President Trump will always fight for the American people,” spokesman Raj Shah said in a statement issued after The Washington Post first reported Trump’s remarks. “. . .Like other nations that have merit-based immigration, President Trump is fighting for permanent solutions that make our country stronger by welcoming those who can contribute to our society, grow our economy and assimilate into our great nation.”
And the argument?
I guess merit based means you can not come from a shithole country. Immigrants assimilate into our country over a generation. The children do so more than the parents. Immigrants bring youth and lower our median age over time which translates into a more vibrate workforce. We need a younger population. What scares Trump and many Republicans is their eventually being in the minority as white people.
Graham is not what I would call a strong advocate and he would sell out to Trump or party lines over country in a flash.
“Graham and Durbin thought they would be meeting with Trump alone and were surprised to find immigration hard-liners such as Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) and Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) at the meeting. The meeting was impromptu and came after phone calls Thursday morning, Capitol Hill aides said.
So much for bipartisanship.
Look at Canada or Australia’s points (merit) system. You get points for knowing english (or in the case of Canada French), education, work experience as well as age (less points as you get older). There are also some points for having family in the country. What essentially that would mean that you have to be more skilled that a taxi driver to immigrate
And they came from “shithole countries too?
Lyle:
What does Trump’s comments have to do with a rating system for immigration? Nothing? One is purely racist from a man who is showing signs of dementia, the other is s system to select candidates for immigration. The latter did not express an ideology of selecting candidates from non-shithole countries.
What Canada does is not the same as what the US does and the basis would be nonracially applied. The US on the other hand has a minority of people who are fearful of losing their power of influence to people of different backgrounds. Even today these groups are selective in who they admit to their groups based upon how you arrived in the US and from what country.
Note that to get the points you would be qualified for more than a taxi driver etc. You would have to search to see what immigrants from what countries Canada and Australia admit. But with the points rules it rules out folks with the equivalent of only HS educations. Points are scale from 5 for HS to 25 for a Phd and 23 for a Masters. Further you must realistically be under 45 to be admitted. Plus Canada requires sufficient funds 22k canadian for a family of 4 http://workpermit.com/immigration/canada/canada-federal-skilled-worker-program-points-requirements
Note that 67 points are required and field gives 5 points for close but not immediate family members.
2012 figures for source countries to Canada. in order , Phillipenes, China, India, Us, Iran, Hati, Pakistan, France and the UK. https://www.loc.gov/law/help/points-based-immigration/canada.php
Australia is moving to a requirement that you have a job offer to immigrate.
for all countries: https://www.loc.gov/law/help/points-based-immigration/index.php
Sounds precisely like Mr. Kimel’s posts without the “shithole” specificity, Mr. Trump is just more direct, blunt, & makes no pretenses.
Now hiring
College graduates from an accredited University
Proficiency in English (written & oral) required.
Five years minimum work experience in degreed professional field.
Age 25 to 45. or 20 if tested at Genius level.
Must bring own monetary assets $500k (not borrowed)
Only immediate family permitted (spouse & own children).
Christians preferred
Blacks, Muslims, Jews, Hispanics, Pacific Islanders, Non-Northern European Caribbean Islanders, some Indian Castes (see list), Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese (and all other SE Asians) need not apply..
“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?”
Easy. Because Democrats believe they will become Democrat voters. Get them on welfare, then accuse Republicans of cutting welfare and call them racist. Rinse and repeat every election.
You almost describe the entrepreneur visa. which has at least a 500k requirement.. I do tend to agree to the no chain migration issue, So immediate family only. But if you look at the canadian results, note that the Philippines is no 1, China is 2 India is 3 and iran is 5 , thereby removing a number of the entries in the list above. Basically it says only the educated need apply,
If we (in the U.S.) are not doing well, and I would say in terms of inequality and wage stagnation we are not, it is not due to the people we admit.
Welcome to AB Mona.
When you elect a shithole president, you get shithole comments about shithole places.
IMMIGRANTS RIGHTS FOR DUMMIES
The average life expectancy is 70 years, about the same for female and male. Yes, each one of us has 70 years to live life! Yay!!!, but wait, since the moment we born society has a plan for how we must live those years.
The first 18, you have to develop and educate your mind and body, the following 47 years should be spent on a few more years of higher education and the acquisition of skills, and all other years dedicated to working. This almost half-century of work is a vital part of society’s plan; we must work to be able to support ourselves, the dependents we might have created during those years, and the cost of living when our bodies are too old to work, and then, we retire at 65 years of age. Then, we finally get to do what we want, or what we can with our lives.
Sad?
NO, sad is that knowing this reality, knowing how short life is, how random the circumstances surrounding our lives are, many people still attack immigrants (documented, undocumented, refugees); these are humans trying to live their 70 years the best they can, with dignity. All immigrants come to work, to build something; most of them sacrifice all their years of youth, some their whole lives just to feel they worth living.
Who told any of us that we can interfere in the process of survival of another human being? particularly one that is making an extraordinary effort to better him/herself, which in most cases means just to get to have the very basic things that many non-immigrants take for granted.
They had promised jobs to the people and not just any job, the undocumented worker’s jobs, they told them that those are the jobs they deserve; and I wonder how did this happen? how they convinced so many of the middle and lower classes to fight each other not for the bread, but for the crumbs? What happened to think BIG?…How about the other jobs? the good ones with vacations, health insurance and why not? a dental plan as well, those nice jobs with retirement plans and daycare? Why are lower and middle classes not fighting for these jobs instead of pushing immigrants around? Where are their hearts, their brains, and their egos?
I am an immigrant, from a “shithole” myself I guess…sad to see that the poem “First they came” from Martin Niemöller will never get old
Welcome to AB Roger. First time comments are held in moderation as a spam precaution.
Sammy,
Have you forgotten that it was Reagan who signed the 1986 Amnesty or that both Reagan and HW Bush afterwards then even extended the 1986 Amnesty “…to the spouses and minor children of immigrants covered by the 1986 law.”
Oh, and btw, the Amnesty bill Reagan signed was originally introduced to the Senate by a GOP senator from Wyoming and a Dem Senator from Kentucky.
And though it was ‘touted’ by conservatives to end illegal immigration from Mexico, all analysis showed it wouldn’t.. and of course Reagan’s team knew it wouldn’t either. And of course it didn’t end illegals from coming to the US to find employment in the lowest wage hard-labor sector.
So maybe you have some pre-Regan era in mind when it was the Dems that brought in all the “shithole” immigrants.
Both Repub’s, not Dem Presidents….that’s 2 of the last GOP Presidents doing what you think was done by Democrats.
Maybe you’re referring to some other era.. pre-Regan?
It seems to me the conservative camp in the US is at a cross-roads.
Demographics show that by the early 2040’s whites while be n the minority. The implications of this for US politics is huge… and will for the first time (or earlier) eliminate the ability of conservatives to have much or any say in the US if they continue down the same ideological path they’ve been on since even before the Civil war.
There are two options open to conservatives in the big picture:
1. Grossly modify their ideological premises to support and accommodate the non-white population to maintain conservative relevance in fiscal and foreign policies.
2. Reject option #1 and do everything in their power while they still can to wrest full control of laws to insure the white population & it’s elites maintain or acquire political control even as a minority of the population.
So conservative are presently in quandary… either option #1 or option #2.
The far right as exemplified by the Kochs, Bannons, Steve Kings, Trumps and racist white supremacists predominantly still in control n the former secessionist states and increasingly in some of the Midwestern States appear to being pushing option #2 hell-bent-for leather.
The less extremist conservatives appear to be looking to option #1 as their path for the future of conservatism sans racism or inferred racism.
Thus it appears to me that the conservatives are waging an internal battle (war?) among themselves
Which side do I think will win in the end?
I think option #2 proponents will ultimately take the conservative banner.. The reason is that the real conservative cause has always been to represent the wealthy and laissez-faire business interests, states rights over federalism, rather than the riff-raff represented by the liberals.
That fiscal and anti-federalism cause is the bread & butter of conservatism… race, religion, “family values”, etc. are completely beside the point — they are coopted to gain enough votes to maintain political relevance to advance their basic reason d’etre. Race, religion, family values, etc. are the conservative pawns They can be sacrificed.
But while the internal conservative battle rages in the meantime, there will be a split for awhile… we’ve seen it already, though the two camps have thus far managed to remain aligned enough to oppose liberals
When liberals take back some control (either the Senate, or Executive, or seriously erode the conservative majority in the House) the conservative camps will probably (imo) have to seriously begin to wage their internal battle for the ultimate quest for either option #1 or #2.
In that quest money & wealth interests will rule the outcome.. hence option #2
Tumultuous times ahead.
My Gross error: The following paragraphs replace option #2 with option #1 and vice verse to correct my mix-up.:
I think option #1 proponents will ultimately take the conservative banner.. The reason is that the real conservative cause has always been to represent the wealthy and laissez-faire business interests, states rights over federalism, rather than the riff-raff represented by the liberals.
That fiscal and anti-federalism cause is the bread & butter of conservatism… race, religion, “family values”, etc. are completely beside the point — they are coopted to gain enough votes to maintain political relevance to advance their basic reason d’etre. Race, religion, family values, etc. are the conservative pawns They can be sacrificed.
But while the internal conservative battle rages in the meantime, there will be a split for awhile… we’ve seen it already, though the two camps have thus far managed to remain aligned enough to oppose liberals
When liberals take back some control (either the Senate, or Executive, or seriously erode the conservative majority in the House) the conservative camps will probably (imo) have to seriously begin to wage their internal battle for the ultimate quest for either option #1 or #2.
In that quest money & wealth interests will rule the outcome.. hence option #1
Tumultuous times ahead.
Sammy wants to clean the toilets and make the bed when he checks into a hotel room, he does not like fresh vegetables unless they are imported, he would prefer to pay two or three times as much to have his roof replaced and likes the leaks after it is done by good old “real Americans”, he does not like meat much or wants to pay twice as much for meat that has been through a packing plant, the same goes for dairy and do not get me started on lawn services. My father was a family physician who served in Korea, I am a recovering lawyer who did not serve in the military but figure I have paid something more than a million dollars in taxes at all levels and I am not done yet and one of my daughters is a physicians assistant with two very bright sons who will undoubtedly grow up to cure cancer or something. The point is none of us would be in this country if my father’s grandfather had not emigrated from Ireland at a time when Ireland was pretty much of a “shit hole country”. I think it really comes down to Trump being pissed that they let Obama’s father into this country where he impregnated a good white girl from Kansas. Obviously that did not work out well for the country. And will somebody please explain to Donny that the Mexicans were here first? Texas, California and the rest of the Southwest is only American because we took it from Mexico. Is this a great country or what?
My grandmother & grandfather were poor immigrants.. dirt poor farmers kids. My grandfather worked in the silver minds in Colorado then tried prospecting in Alaska (abject failure) and finally started farming on leased land then homesteaded 160 acres in North Dakato, but lost it to the banks during the depression. Of his 7 offspring, 3 boys, 4 girls… two girls graduated high school, al married well and had kids. The kids (my generation) became wealthy construction contractors, most graduated college with 4 year degrees, producing a nurse, two master’s degrees medical ethics , psychology), a doctorate in genetics, a doctorate in physics, three teachers, a highly successful lawyer who owns his own firm with a dozen lawyers he employes, high income professional employment in advanced technologies… and many more. One quit high school at 16 and joined the Navy.. became a CB in Vietnam (5 tours), heavy equipment operator licenses in every type and size, retired after 20 years and became mildly wealthy operating heavy equipment for various firms and contractors, where-ever he wanted and whenever he wanted — his skill and experience were in huge demand everywhere on the globe. The list isn’t perfect.. two suffered from mental disease and until adequately medicated in and out of mental institutions and arrests for minor crimes (no burglary’s or assaults however).
And the achieved these things in public education universities which were in CA highly subsidized by taxpayers so the could afford to attend.
The kids produced by my generation all got 4 year degrees or more… master’s and doctorates, .. most work in industries/ services, some in academics (full professors at major universities) All of them were helped to pay for college and their advanced degrees by their parents + part time jobs in summers and a few by partial scholarships)…. still all at public universities This includes a successful dentist, surgeon, financial wall street wizard, comp sci manager at Google, an internet commerce self starter with a finance degree now employed by Apple, another comp sci major from Carnegie-Mellon (scholarship) now a successful entrepreneur, one still studying for his philosophy degree, .. none are or have ever been on the dole.
My wife’s grandparents on her father’s side were immigrants.. grandfather from Bulgaria the grandmother from Ireland. They were migrant farm workers, as were their two boys… both of whom barely got eight years of education. One became a wealthy commercial contractor in the Western US… Safeway Stores, Transamerica Title, Columbia records real estate division among many others. The other son remained a migrant farm worker, supervisor, scrapping by, but loved the freedom it gave him.. he didn’t mind scraping by.. the price he said he paid for being able to work where and when he wanted… never having to eat shit from an employer… follow the weather that suited him. He wasn’t dumb though, which is probably why he was always employed when he wanted to be… and also because of course he was “white” I’m sure.
My wife was one of three daughters.. . she and one of her sisters graduated with 4 year degrees, both. married dirt poor husbands before either graduated… both they and their husbands succeeded immensely and worked in their degreed fields after child rearing. The children of these two girls were 6.. two Master’s degrees, two Bachelors, and two Associate degrees. 4 of the 6 are highly successful, the other 2 not so much… they chased a dream too long before realizing the dream was a fantasy.. hence no practical employment skills … retail, restaurants, odd jobs.
The other of my wife’s 2 sisters married right out of high school, no college, but worked with her husband, owned their own home, and live a moderately middle class life. Never on welfare or any public assistance.
So the story is that four absolute shirt on their back immigrants, dirt poor from dirt poor families, who are my generation’s grandparents produced progeny and then their progeny and then theirs after that who in composite have produced far more than most for this nation’s prosperity and growth.
Being poor, poorly educated, from dirt poor families, speaking nor reading no English at all with virtually no marketable skills doesn’t have one f….ing thing to do with what they will produce. Of course their advantage was that they were white… so suffered no racial discriminations.
Thanks, Dan!
Is all good, actually, that’s why AB is one of the very few places on the internet I trust to express myself
But were your ancestors Italian, Southern European or Irish. Depending on the time they immigrated all these were discriminated against (recall no Irish need apply in the 19th century, that the 1926 quota bill was based upon stopping undeisrable southern europeans and Italians, and of course anyone who was catholic was a slave of the pope. (1920s KKK position in Indiana, as there were not a lot of blacks in Indiana at the time). Recall the issue of JFK and being president and being a catholic, compared with the reaction to Al Smith 32 years earlier. Or consider the Chinese have moved from most undesired to very desirable immigrants.
Lyle,
You forgot to add Germans to the list.
In the early 1700s so many Germans were immigrating to Pennsylvania that the colony passed a law requiring every male immigrant over age 15 to swear an oath of loyalty to the English king. Those lists of Germans are still available for the years from 1727 to about 1770.
From “Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, 1751” written by Benjamin Franklin
“And since Detachments of English from Britain sent to America, will have their Places at Home so soon supply’d and increase so largely here; why should the Palatine Boors be suffered to swarm into our Settlements, and by herding together establish their Language and Manners to the Exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.”
See: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-04-02-0080
In 1850 there were riots in Louisville Kentucky over the number of immigrants.
“Bloody Monday was sparked by the Know Nothing political party (officially known as the American Party), an offshoot of the shattered Whig Party, fed in large part by the radical, inflammatory anti-immigrant writings, especially those of the editor of the Louisville Journal, George D. Prentice.[1] Irish and Germans were recent arrivals and now comprised a third of the city’s population.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Monday
To boot in the period 1917 to 1920 german immigrants who for one reason or another had not taken citizenship papers had their names published in papers, Happend to my greatgrandfather who came to southern indiana in 1861 up the Mississippi (a very bad choice of when to travel…) In 1917 his name appeared on such a list and his front door was painted yellow. Also a large number of german language papers ceased publishing, as well as country churches changing the lanuage of services. I had two uncles born in 1911 and 1913 who were called the little german boys in the local school because my grandparents spoke german at home. Changed drastically by 1920.