Obamacare – Fear – Mongers Poison Minds; Hatred Blinds
Maggie Mahar at Health Beat Blog Obamacare – Fear – Mongers Poison Minds; Hatred Blinds” writes about the confusion about, the anger at, and the mischaracterization of the PPACA by every day people, medical workers, and politicians. Having myself presented the facts to rebut assumptions and fallacies, I find her comments interesting and on the money. Most who nit-pick on the PPACA have no obtainable and immediate alternatives in hand to replace the PPACA leaving a return to what was in place previous to its passage. The healthcare industry and Congress has done nothing to improve the situation pre-PPACA. There is no evidence they would move forward with a better alternative to the PPACA if it was repealed.
Judith Mayer Lynn, uninsured and battling breast cancer, should be a fan of the Affordable Care Act1. Instead, Bloomberg reports, she know little about it. When Bloomberg interviewed the 56-year-old she was unaware of subsidies in the law that will help people like her buy coverage in 2014,. “Lynn didn’t know the Affordable Care Act requires insurers to pay for prescription drugs, hospital stays and other services she has spent the last two years scrimping to afford. Nor did she realize she can no longer be denied a policy due to her illness”.
When told of the benefits, “Lynn remained unconvinced, skeptical of insurers and government alike. ‘It’s a joke,’ she said. ‘There’s going to be loopholes in all of these provisions.1’”
If you showed Lynn the list of “essential benefits” that insurers will have to include in the policies they sell to people like her, could you persuade her to read the list—and explain where she saw the holes? Probably not, as her mind is closed to a discussion. In an interview at an Access to Healthcare office in Las Vegas, Lynn said she was unaware of those benefits — and didn’t trust Obama to produce them anyway.
The Poison: Hatred
Perhaps, I should not be surprised. We live in a nation where in 2009, a U.S. Congressman felt free to shout out “You Lie” during a televised presidential speech to a joint session of Congress2. (President Obama had just said that the legislation would not mandate coverage for undocumented immigrants. This is, of course, correct. South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson (R) later apologized.)
Yet that did not stop another Congressional Republican from calling out the President earlier this month. In a scathing speech on the floor of the House3, Rep. Jim Bridenstine (R-OK) derided President Obama as a “dishonest, incompetent, vengeful liar” who lacks a “moral compass.” Bridenstine cited HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius’ efforts to promote enrollment in the Affordable Care Act as one reason President Obama is “not fit to lead.” Bridenstine did not apologize. Instead the next day, he told a talk show host that he had “gotten great encouragement” for his remarks from fellow Republicans. I have followed U.S. politics for many years. Never have I seen a president so hated — not Nixon, not LBJ at the height of the War in Vietnam.
Politicians Are Not Alone in Teaching Americans Not to Trust Obamacare
Lynn recalls one of her surgeons telling her that he was leaving the business because the health-care law dictates what he can charge patients1. This the Bloomberg article notes is “something the legislation doesn’t do.“ Why would a surgeon claim that the Affordable Care Act will be setting his rates? Presumably, he reads newspapers. How could he be so uninformed?
“There is a lot of distrust,” Sherri Rice, chief executive officer at Access to Healthcare explains. When her nonprofit group began asking members about the ACA last month, about half knew little about its provisions and another quarter were “furious” about it, she told Bloomberg. Such anger makes it difficult to think clearly—or take in information. This may explain why Lynn’s surgeon thinks that under the ACA he will be told what he can charge patients. Perhaps he too is so “furious” that the facts don’t register. Hatred blinds.
Educating the Public
The Brookings Institute’s Henry J. Aaron is one of many who blames the Obama administration for not doing a better job of educating the public. “We haven’t seen a lot of energy from the administration on public education. They ceded the field to those who were largely hostile to the bill to frame it in the public’s mind1.”
Aaron is right that Obamacare’s opponents have “framed” the issue. They have outspent supporters by 5-to-1 on TV ads, according to advertising analyst Kantar Media1. But their idea of “framing” is to define an idea with a catchphrase. If some facts do not fit into the frame, they are ignored explains linguistics professor George Lakoff. The “frame” becomes a lens through which conservatives invite us to see policy issues. For example, Laskoff observes, the phrase “tax relief” creates a context, signaling that taxes are bad and this is why we need “relief.” “Obamacare” is, itself a frame, which suggests that the Affordable Care Act will create a “nanny-state,” with the president becoming a national nanny who will tell us what we must do.
When you are lying, repetition is important. (Goebbels used this technique to his advantage) Laskoff points to a speech by Rick Santorum where he repeatedly refers to the President “not listening to the voice of the American people” (14 times) “because he knows better than you” (5 times)4, and is using the Government to run your lives by taking away your “rights” (10 times), and “freedoms.”(12 times “Death panel” became one of the most successful frames. Conservatives favor sound bites that are short, snappy and click shut like a box. Like advertising slogans, they are designed to make people stop thinking.
More, progressive formulations encourage thought. Often, they raise questions5: is health care a “right”, a “privilege”, or a “moral responsibility”—something that, we as a civilized society, we owe to each other? “Individual responsibility” is a phrase that conservatives favor. Each of us is responsible for ourselves, period. By contrast, “shared responsibility” opens the mind to consider the possibility5 that employers, employees, government, and the health care industry itself should share in funding universal healthcare.
It is difficult to explain Obamacare in a one-minute TV ad because health care reform turns on the details–thousands of details. And often, these are interlocking details: you cannot understand one without understanding the next paragraph in the legislation. For example: If you are self-employed, unemployed or work for an employer who does not offer benefits you will be able to purchase your own coverage in the Exchanges — marketplaces where insures will be regulated and will not be able to charge you more if you suffer from a pre-existing condition. If you earn less than $46000, you will be eligible for a government subsidy in the form of a tax credit that will help you pay the premium.
That is just one fact—and it I took me a full paragraph to convey a fairly accurate basic description of who will be eligible for a tax credit.
The definition also raises questions. For example, a reader might well ask; If I have to wait until I get a tax credit (when I pay my 2014 taxes in April of 2015) how will I pay the premiums on my insurance at the beginning of 2014? The answer is that the IRS will forward the money to your insurer in 2014, estimating how large your subsidy should be based on your 2013 income. Then when you file your 2013 taxes in 2014, you and the government will settle. If your 2014 income turned out to be lower than expected, the government may have underestimated your subsidy, and will owe you money. If, on the other hand, you earned more than expected, the subsidy may have been larger than it should have been, and you will owe the government money. To me this sounds fair; but, it doesn’t fit into a sound bite. I spent two paragraphs explaining it.
If a reader were skimming a newspaper story he might not take in those two paragraphs — especially if he already had heard conservatives “frame” the idea that you might own the government money as a “tax credit trap.” The phrase suggests that the tax credit is a trick leaving many Americans with what redstate.com calls “surprise tax bills5” in the spring of 2015.
Suddenly the tax credit does not sound like such a good deal – unless you took the time to read the full explanation.
In October, the Public Will Need a Crash Course in Obamacare
Let us return to the idea to the idea that the Obama administration has done a poor job of educating the public. “For the last couple of years, the Obama administration has done too little to explain what was in the law, and to mobilize support,1” says Henry Aaron. Bloomberg observes that in April of 2013 U.S. health secretary Kathleen Sebelius “offered a different take on timing: “’It didn’t make sense for the U.S. to contact the uninsured long before they can actually sign up for coverage1.’”
I think Sebelius may well be right. Americans are not interested in poring over the many details of Obamacare when it seems a distant possibility. (Polls show that Conservative diatribes have convinced many that the law already was repealed.) People will be much more interested in listening to the facts about the ACA in October, when it is becomes clear that the law is a reality, and that they are faced with a decision. Should I sign up for insurance? Right now Republicans are telling them that, under reform coverage will be unaffordable. Often they throw out numbers like “30% increases.” Here the fear-mongers are speculating about the cost of insurance premiums in the Exchanges where individuals buy their own insurance. But keep in mind, only a small minority of Americans will purchase coverage in these Exchanges
The majority of Americans work for large companies and are offered tax benefits at work. The Congressional Budget Office tells us that Obamacare will have a “negligible” effect on their premiums6.
As for premiums in the individual Exchanges, today Democrats cannot tell you exactly how much your coverage will cost if you buy your own insurance in 2014. This makes it difficult to rebut claims that costs will skyrocket. Everything will depend on your age, your sex, your income, where you live—and how insurers decide to price their products. They will be competing for market share, and will be trying to calculate how to price their product to attract young, healthy customers.
Premiums in the Exchanges: Much Will Depend On Where You Live
In states like New York, insurers now have to follow rules that are very similar to the regulations in the Affordable Care Act. As a result, it is unlikely that individuals buying their own insurance will have to pay more than they do today. In fact, they will probably pay less because in the Insurance Exchanges they will be part of a large group, and thus the insurer’s administrative costs will be lower. In addition, if an individual earns less than $46,000 he will be eligible for a government subsidy, which will slash his premiums.
On the other hand if the customer is a healthy 30-year-old male who lives in a state where insurers are allowed to charge women three times as much as they would charge a man for exactly the same policy and where they charge someone suffering from a pre-existing condition four times as much; the 30-year old man who is purchasing insurance in the Exchange may well be asked to shell out significantly more than he does today. This is because, under reform, he, his sister, and his mother (who suffers from diabetes) will find themselves on a level playing field: Insurers will not be able to gouge his sister or his mother.
(Put that way, reform doesn’t sound so bad does it? Even a progressive can use words such as “gouge” and “level playing field” to “frame” the issue.) Then again, consider how many words I needed to explain the variables that will determine whether your premiums will go up or down in the Exchanges.
It is much, much easier just to scream “sticker shock.”
In October, the Administration Will be Able to Offer Specifics
In the fall, progressives will have an easier task. They will be able to say: “Here in North Carolina an individual will be able to choose from a menu of five plans that range in price from $____to $____a year. Here are the details on the co-pays and deductibles. You will notice that in the plans where premiums are lower, co-pays are higher. In all of these plans your total out-of-pocket spending will be- capped at $6500 a year — no matter which plan you choose, or how much care you need.”
Armed with this information, reform’s supporters will be able to answer the false claims that you are hearing today. (This is why the fear mongers are now becoming louder and more hysterical—as we approach October they know their days are numbered.) “Enroll America” also will point out that: “different plans use different provider networks—you will find a list of their networks here. Some plans charge more because they think that you will pay more for their networks of hospitals and doctors. But they may be wrong: some customers will choose one of the less expensive plans.”
In October, progressives will put premiums in the contexct of subsidies, explaining that “If you are single and earn X, you will receive a government subsidy of $______ . If you are a 40-year-old couple with one child earning Z, you will receive a tax credit of $_____.” When Obamacare’s supporters have hard numbers, and can spell out what reform will mean for YOU and your family, uninsured, self-employed and unemployed Americans will be much more eager to learn about the details of healthcare reform. This is when they will be ready for a crash course in Obamacare.
Educating the Public: Reaching Out at the Right Time
As Joanne Peters, an HHS spokeswoman told Bloomberg: “Our outreach will kick into high gear this summer leading into the fall1, when we’ll be talking to Americans across the country to prepare them to enroll in coverage beginning October 1. Our deliberative tactics build on the lessons we’ve learned, including reaching people with the right message at the right time, when it’s time for them to act.”
“You want outreach and communications with real intensity in the six months when people can go online and sign up1,” adds Tara McGuinness a White House spokeswoman, referring to the open enrollment period that begins in October 2013 and runs through March 2014. In six months, “Enroll America” should be able to get the facts out there to most of the people who, at that point, will want to hear more about how “Obamacare” might help them. Granted, reformers still will have to contend with the conservative crusade to poison our minds by planting seeds of suspicion. This campaign has been going on since 2009. That’s four years of misinformation and outright lies.
Nevertheless in October of 2014, when “Enroll America” has the facts on pricing, I am hopeful that mainstream journalists will at last feel able and willing to call misinformation what it is: “a lie.”
no one gives a flying flap about “Obamacare”. By this time next year, no one will care about it politically.
30 years from now, even the textbooks won’t have anything on it. That is how small and “pre-Obamacare” American health care system was already dead.
Thank you for your comment.
Based on my weekly email and phone traffic:
consumers/patients/employees/retirees are confused
employers are confused
insurers are scrambling for position
Based on my conference attendance and work with associations and editors
providers are confused and scrambling for a sustainable business model (a post on the Tenet deal will follow)
Overlaying a complex system with more complexity is bound to create confusion. Explaining this will be a nightmare.
So STR where do you stnd on the expansion of Medicaid and the Insurance Exchanges in Michigan? Is this also some of the confusion you describe?
Much of the confusion has been invented by the Republicans, the Teabaggers, and the special interests who may have to make some changes in order to comply with the provisions of the PPACA. Employers are confused? I am sure there are (and I know there are) the specialists which can come to an employer and help them meet the requiremnts of the PPACA. Here we are in the middle of 2013 and much remains to be done to be ready for the implementation of the PPACA. Why do you believe we waited so long to prepare for it?
The PPACA is complex, as complex as any industry health insurance company regulatory policy.
“Lynn didn’t know the Affordable Care Act requires insurers to pay for prescription drugs, hospital stays and other services she has spent the last two years scrimping to afford. Nor did she realize she can no longer be denied a policy due to her illness”.
That is unfortunate. I want to see her healthy and cured of cancer. I go further, I want her to have a free house, free food, free education, free car to take her to and from employment, and a good job where she makes money. Unfortunately I cannot afford that for my own family.
My spouse had cancer, it was horrible. Guess what, we scrimped and always paid for insurance. Initially I had catasrophic insurance, where I would cover the 1st $ 10,000 of any severe illness, the rest was covered by insurance. The premium was less. I saved my money, always bought a used car, we have a small house in a ‘bad’ neighborhood. We are frugal, we cut our own lawn rake our own leaves shovel our own snow.
So who will pay for Lynn’s hospital and other care ?
Me, my spouse ?
Obviously my premiums MUST and already have go up
to pay for this.
Why shouldn’t Lynn scrimp as we have ?
Are you telling me she CAN and HAS scrimped to afford these things
but you are here telling her she Should NOT because she can get it for free ?
Premium costs are going to be an issue. Consider an employee at Summer Infants. $15K deductable and $50 copays. Consider an employee from a radiology operation, $10K deductable.
I have a $10K deductable as self employed with is considered (or was) a high deductable plan designed for a health savings account. Are we going to go the way of 401K’s for retirement?
If you ar referring to premium costs for outliers such as we discussed, yes there are going to be issues; but, is it a worthy action to scrap the entire program and go back to “nothing?” Much of what you and I have talked about is solvable if . . . and it is a big if . . . there was a Congress (who by the way wrote this bill) worked to solve it. There is no interest to do so in the House of Representatives and there is no interest to design something better or improve upon what is in place. There is a huge interest in protecting the healthcare industry and insurance companies at the expense of everyday people. If this does not go forward, do you really think Congress will come up with something better to replace it?
No,these 2 examples are from employer based plans. This is what the employers are offering. As noted one company is a national/international in it’s reach of it’s products though not a CVS size. The other is a local state wide medical imaging company.
Yes, I know it can be fixed. I’m also, as you confident it won’t be until examples as presented here are experienced by many more citizens.
Lastly, I am not criticizing the entire plan. Never have. Just presenting real time examples that possible portent what is coming.
If such is the case and an employee signs up for the insurance exchanges, the employer pays a fine on all of its employees less the first 30 employees. I wish we had a stronger pressident who would do the stare down with Congress in the same manner FDR did with the Senate when it was advocating exempting companies with pension plans from Social Security. Guess who won?
I just noticed that YOU DO NOT say what kind of cancer Lynn has.
I will bet you $ 1,000 dollars – right now – $ 1,000 that my spouse’s
cancer was and is worse.
Please DO NOT play the cancer card on me.
We have suffered tremendously. And yet not asked
you for a dime.
Plain and simple, I was raised in an environment of
That said, you know and I know that NO HOSPITAL
would deny Lynn of breast cancer care due to money.
We, my spouse and I and our family have supported many
cancer fundraisers, etc…. and are VERY WELL INFORMED.
I challenge you right now to name a single incident where a
person like Lynn was denied cancer treatment at her local
hospital due to lack of money.
The story of Lyn was meant to convey the lack of knowledge people have about the PPACA. Much of this is due to the lack of information to which the administration does ave responsibility, the proponderence of misinformation being put forth by special interests, and the outright lies being put forth by political interests. No one is plying a cancer card with you and you take this point a bridge too far.
Hospitals are not required to provide any more care other than to stabilize a person who arrives at the ER doors seeking help. Once they are stabilized, they can be released. Dr. Arthur Kellermann, a health analyst with the Rand Corporation adds this:
This came up during the last election campaign when Romney ascerted such July 5, 2011. Federal law requires that hospitals treat people whether or not they can pay. So someone (who) doesn’t have health insurance — they can go to the hospital and get free care If you choose not to believe such, I would urge you to read the actual 1986 Federal Law, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act.
To your other implied point of hospitals not denying care, who do you think ends up paying that bill when a hospital takes care of a person? Hospitals are not monetarily sovereign and the cost of the hospital supplies, the use of the ER, and the doctor’s time is charged off somewhere. Even if it is covered bt a state or Federal program, it still must be paid for by you and me. The Urban Policy Institute has some writeups on the hiddden cost of healthcare if there is no personal insurance and if the PPACA never existed. There are two sides to this story and not just yours. I sure would not want to go into a hospital and depend upon a coin toss to determine whether they will care for me after stabilization. By the way, you are not the only one who had to exist on catastrophic healthcare insurance.
I agree with you about the Big Lie and the effect it has on people who cannot think.
But I am not so sure about “progressive framing.” I had no luck convincing Henry Aaron of the importance of framing the Social Security “problem” in a way that it could be solved. He could not even understand the arithmetic, and he refused to talk about it. As, of course, have all of his “progressive” friends.
I don’t like Obamacare because I think it sells health care consumers to the people who have been screwing them for the last fifty years. And I don’t like Obama because I think he lied about everything he said when he was running for office…both times.
But that doesn’t put me on the side of the right wing hate machine, which as far as i can tell simply runs on… and for… hate for its own sake, having lost track of any kind of truth, even that which arguably favors themselves.
The “haters” and the “poisoned minds” are real enough, and I hope I am not one of them.
You are fine. I mostly agree with you; but, I am unwilling to go backwards to nothing and the same old, same old. The thought of doing so is silly. We got to this point because the Liebermans and the Blue Dogs wanted concessions to their particular interests while the Republicans desired to do nothing the same as today. They took it part way and called it a day. The opposition to President Obama as the President parallels the opposition President Lincoln faced during his terms in office. Much of it is not factual and is opposition to the man. It has been openly stated as such by the leaders of the opposition.
The PPACA does has some controls in the MLR which will force healthcare insurance companies to apply premiums to actual medical care rather than use it for vacation. Premiums must be ratio based on the lowest cost of the insured and healthcare insurance companies will no longer be able to charge the elderly 6 or 10 times what a younger person would pay. Young adults can stay on their parents insurance until 26 which is important considering the number of jobs available to young graduates of college and others as well. If you have cancer, an insurance company can no longer shut you off once you have maxed out at the $1 million cap not can it rescind coverage. Furthermore, the PPACA has within it provisions to improve the quality of care as opposed to paying out for services rendered. There are other attributes to the PPACA which will benefit the population which are too numerous to list here; but, I would urge anyone who does have questions about to review it. Key Features of the Affordable Care Act By Year .
Both you and Dan have concerns which are legitimate and can be resolved if we ever get a Congress which will work to our interests, not to the special interests, and not spend all of their time trying to defeat one man.
Best guess I have about the haters is that hate favors their overall position. Obamacare is advantageous to one of their corporate sponsors, but Obamacare is an established fact now… The Supreme Court saw to that. The Right does not mind using ANYTHING to sow hate and distrust of government… even things they, on the whole, approve of themselves… like Romneycare.
I think it is not beyond possibility that now that the insurance companies and medical providers have made us an offer we can’t refuse they are still going to try to cheat on it every way they can.
They got the government to force us all to buy insurance.. by agreeing to some reforms. Now they will get to work whittling down those reforms so they can make a little more money. It’s how they work.
Daniel I work two jobs, my spouse works one.
I too like you had the high deductible.
Luckily my spouse got a job that had insurance.
We took it and dropped mine.
Then my spouse got cancer.
Luckily my spouse’s company was understanding and let
my spouse continue to work as we had dropped my insurance
and have spouse coverage through the company.
Due to Obamacare, Our premium went up dramatically last year
and I bet this year goes up even more.
Next year even more.
We have to pay that premium to keep the same insurance
and stay with the same cancer doctors.
Quick off note: my parents had a larger but moderate house, sold it about
12 years ago to cut property tax in 1/2 now the property tax
rose to where they were before on the larger house.
If it goes up more they may have to sell and move again.
This is just another example of the responsible middle even
like me the lower middle income people getting the brunt of the heat.
Responsible people get slaughtered.
And this idiot author is advising people to slaughter us more.
Do not bother scrimping and saving – someone else will pay.
Well that someone else is us. How much can we take.
Working two jobs right now I sometimes rarely see
my spouse for a week. Should I get a third job.
So others don’t have to scrimp and save ?
““Lynn didn’t know the Affordable Care Act requires insurers to pay for prescription drugs, hospital stays and other services she has spent the last two years scrimping to afford. Nor did she realize she can no longer be denied a policy due to her illness”. ”
Is your advice to me – that I should quit my second job,
SHould I STOP SCRIMPING to afford insurance and drugs ?
and pay nothing to insurance
do not cut my own grass, do not maintain my own home
and You Will Pay For It ?
– If so Please give me your name and address
and I will gladly send you the lawn cutting bills and
my other medical bills now.
— Please do give me your information because believe me
I do not like working two jobs and do not like cutting my own lawn !
Thanks in advance for your advice.
If these racist nuts want to deny The Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare, they are within their rights to accept the consequences!
Really racist nuts. Captain Dan, You my friend are the racist
My brother is black. He has three children.
I, yes am white.
My other brother was in the Peace Corps and married a
I have 6 black nieces and nephews.
NOT african american, because they are not from africa.
– YOu Captain Dan have no idea what you are talking about.
Shame on you.
Simple thoughts from simple minds.
RUn and CAPTAIN DAN
I so welcome these conversations.
Should I tell my black 6 neices and nephews
not African American because not from Africa
well maybe they are, maybe if you look back 100 or 1000
years we all are
that they should stop paying for insurance or education and everything else because you will ?
If you are going to pay for Lynn, or suggest I do,
won’t you prove you are not
a racist and give me your name and address and I will send you
a bill and you will pay for them ?
Certainly you will pay for them, they deserve it.
Please tell me where to send the bills !
I know I pitch in as does my spouse, because who can afford
the college for any of our children.
What is more important ?
You pay for health care ?
You pay for a house and food that limits a need for health care ?
You pay for education that limits a need for food, shelter, health care ?
Please give me your address so I know where to send a bill.
otherwise, Please give us all the charities YOU give to
and let us know the amounts.
My bet, you like all the other idiots,
give nothing to charity
noting to education
Please prove me wrong !
well, captain Dan
i am not a racist nut, but you have only my word for it.
rereading run’s essay did not comfort me. simplest thing to say is that he favors it so the passages he finds “reasonable” horrify me because i don’t favor it.
the horrible right is horrible. the left seems to have trouble understanding that a minority is still real people.
care to explain why ALL of my posts were deleted =
I welcome hearing from you .
There was NO profanity nor any objectionable threat
strange, when I went to read all my posts were gone
when I posted they all returned.
something strange going on here
. g roberts
I see you have deleted my posts.
Just another self interest clog ?
Or Blog ?
Never want a contrary opinion ?
. Do not trust this blog is my personal opinion.
Delete everything that does not agree.
No one has deleted your posts. You would have to do far more than express your anger to achieve deletion. I do not see anything wrong in what you say here, although calling someone a racist is a bit of a stretch. How much do you know about the PPACA?
here I go again.
I agree with some of what you say, but at some point you work yourself into an emotional state where it’s hard for you to make sense to others. (don’t worry. i do it all the time myself.)
i am sorry that you are having such pain and difficulty. I don’t think it is the fault of Obama, Obamacare, or the “irresponsibility” of the Left… although, as I have said, I have negative feelings myself about all of those things.
Try to slow down, take a breath, and see if you can find a way to talk to people you don’t agree with and see if you. or they, can learn something. (to be honest, my own batting average at this is very low, but if we don’t find a way to do it, we will be the victims of the hate mongers… on both sides… forever.
Consider a couple of thoughts:
“Individual responsibility,” which I think should be the core of any public morality, will not get you very far in a world in which the evils that come at you are too big for individuals to overcome without working together… that is what “government” is all about. The problem with government is first finding a way to compromise with all the people whose help you need, and second finding a way to keep the big evils from taking over the government. We are in an era where that has been mostly successful, but I am afraid we are about to enter an era where that will have failed entirely… largely because the fear mongers and sowers of hatred have taught the unthinking (most of us) that “government IS the problem.” Government is the only hope we have… we need to find ways to make it work, not rely on the kindness of the nice man who is telling us lovely stories about “freedom.”
Obama did not cause your wife’s cancer. There is some possibility it was caused by the pollution created by industries who first and only interest is making money.
Taxes that double in 12 years are not running much ahead of inflation.
I agree that governments need to be a little more careful how they spend money, but the answer is not to simply “hate the government.”
Obamacare has not caused your premiums to go up. The insurance companies trying to game Obamacare before it becomes the law, have.
You may have a wonderful employer. Not everyone does.
I don’t like Obamacare because I regard the insurance companies as organized crime. I have also gotten though a long life without needing expensive medical care, or insurance. The prospect of “a maximum payment of 6500 dollars a year horrifies me. If I had paid that over my lifetime I would be worse than dirt poor today. I don’t want to pay for the trivial care and hypochondria and neurotic fear of death of others I tell you this not to make you agree with me, but to tell you what you have to overcome to get me to agree with you.
It may seem contradictory but I would favor a “Medicare for all” system that paid for ALL medical needs from a transparent dedicated tax that was “flat” and “capped.” Even if this works out to the same amount of money as the Obamacare approach. That might be hard to explain, and probably is mostly a matter of personal prejudice, but again, it is a place to begin talking about how to “reform” Obamacare once we see how it is working.
I thought Maggie was thoughtful until Poison:Hatred. She can’t remember George W. Bush? Worse than LBJ and Nixon during Vietnam? That first passage destroys any credibility Maggie may have had. Is she doing schtick? And then her argument boils down to this: The Great Communicator can’t communicate.
It has been a long time since Vietnam War protests and the Days of Rage which were probably some of the most severe protests ever to occur in the later half of the 20th century. Other than Eugene McCarthy, Hatfield and Goodell; I do not recall any congressional reps or senators actively participating. I do not recall anyone person publically calling the president a liar either.
Maggie may have stretched the description a tad to far; but, the rest of here words are true to the mark.
You miss the point entirely. Or you misunderstand it.
Or you intentionally ignore it.
BUT I think you know it and avoid it at all cost.
You write “By the way, you are not the only one who had to exist on catastrophic healthcare insurance.”
Catastrophic health insurance is GREAT. What could be better.
Low premium and if there is an issue more than $ 10,000
it is covered.
NO ONE that I EVER read about is entering bankruptcy due to medical costs if they
carry this SIMPLE and INEXPENSIVE alternative.
I challenge you to provide ONE – JUST ONE – example of a
family that went bankrupt because of medical bills, BUT had
CATASTROPHIC insurance in place.
I was happy with it and would still be happy with it.
The PROBLEM is this type of insurance no longer exists or
the costs have risen SO MUCH that it is no longer affordable.
WE BOTH KNOW when you mandate pre-existing coverage
that people will NOT buy insurance now, they will buy it ONLY
when an issue arises.
CAN YOU DO THAT FOR CAR INSURANCE – NO
can you buy car insurance AFTER you get in an accident
CAN YOU DO THAT FOR HOMEOWNERS OR FIRE INSURANCE
can you do that AFTER you have a fire or flood – NO
WHY SHOULD YOU BE ABLE TO DO THAT FOR HEALTH INSURANCE ?
We both know you will not answer that question.
And it is a very simple question.
WE ALL KNOW YOU AGREE –
except you may dig your heels in and not admit you are wrong.
The Basic Premise of insurance is you buy it now
in case a bad thing happens later —————–
NOT THAT you can buy it later if a bad thing happens later
AND STILL BE COVERED.
———- We ALL know this a basic truth
Only a fool wants to change the equation.
The statistics do not support your ascertion:
“A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.
Rare or serious diseases or injuries can easily result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills–bills that can quickly wipe out savings and retirement accounts, college education funds and home equity. Once these have been exhausted, bankruptcy may be the only shelter left, regardless of whether the patient or his or her family was able to apply health coverage to a portion of the bill or not.” http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/25/why-people-go-bankrupt-personal-finance-bankruptcy.html
Many of these people who went bankrupt even when they had healthcare insurance and for various reasons. Either the insurance did not pay enough, the treatment was not covered, they reached the cap of the insurance, etc. Catastrophic would be included in these numbers as well as insurance plans covering far more. I just did a quick google and the catastrophic plans still exist:
If this is what you want, go get it. It will satisfy the new act requirements of having coverage in a limited fashion. Under the PPACA, the most you will have to pay out-of-pocket besides premiums is ~$12,000 which is far less than what was demanded of the insured in previous years.
By the way, you can not buy insurance when you go to the hospital for an illness or disorder. You have to have it beforehand.
Let me refresh your memory. In 2009 Rep. Pete Stark called Bush a liar during a speech on the floor of the House…twice. He had to be admonished from the presiding speaker. Also in 2009 Sen. Reid called Bush a liar in an interview and when asked later by Rolling Stone to back off that charge he specifically refused. I could go on and on but what’s the point? Maggie’s whole article is a joke.
Why? Because Reid was right. Bush did lie.
“More, via Tim Grieve, from a 2005 Rolling Stone sit-down”
Get it right if you are going to come at me. You do not believe Bush lied about Iraq and WMD???
President Obama was correct when the idiot Rep called him a liar during his speech. Where was Reid wrong and when did he yell at Bush during a speech? You are entitled to your opnion; but, you are begining to sound like another poster to this thread. Maggie’s words have merit and I agree with them.