Roman Riot
Your intrepid if somewhat tardy correspondent confirms the number one story at www.washingtonpost.com. The OWS demonstration in Rome provided cover for people who like to smash and burn things (the black block). This is the line of Rome’s right wing mayor and the right wing minister of the interior.
Being late, as usual, I missed the demonstration and the violence, but I do have photos of the damage and a spent tear gas canister.
update: I went to Pzza San Giovanni to demonstrate but got there when more punctual demonstrators were already leaving.
Also typo corrected.
update II: In my post and in my comment I spoke ironically of the left’s standard line that the vandals were infiltrators and clearly separate from decent protesters like us (note I am a member of the left and was mocking myself). However, the evidence is very strong that the smashers and burners were clearly a different group than the mass of ordinary protesters. You should note I didn’t say “nonviolent protesters” as it seems that some ordinary protesters used violence, against the black block vandals
“quella cinquantina di “neri” che, per altro, il corteo ha isolato e, in qualche caso, anche aggredito a bottigliate.” — Carlo Bonini that is “those 50 or so black clad hooligans who, by the way, the crowd isolated and, in a few cases, attacked with thrown bottles.” As I reported last night, I missed the action (late as usual) but video shows the same all black costumes, covered faces and helmets as the gangs which did massive property damage in Genoa during a G-8 meeting some years ago. It’s hard to figure out what these guys think they are doing, but their symbol is the A in a circle of punk/anarchy not the hammer and sickle which is still the symbol of the Italian far left.
Needless to say Carlo Bonini doesn’t claim that all the damage was done by 50 or so hooligans (they would have to be super hooligans). His line is that not so hard core violent kids joined in the fun. He is a very leading Italian investigative journalist. He is also not so slightly left of center and clearly determined to blame the police/caribinieri — in this case for being soft on anarcho-hooliganism. But his claims of fact are reliable and confirmed by video.
The fairly famous burnt paddy wagon
A dumpster barricade
Fire
water
smoke
cobblestones
Yep the left-wing loons have now come out in force in the OWS. Are they taking over or is this just the usual European nutcase riots?
But I noticed they wanted to destroy capitalism – of course showing incredible ignorance – since capitalism is what brought them all the wealth around them (that they feel free to burn).
I wonder how many lives of small businessmen, like the NcDonalds owner, were destroyed ? How many jobs ended? (I hope we are not going to argue the broken-window fallacy).
Time for OWS to chunk the crazies to the curb and get moving organizing to re-elect Obama – “The man”!! (Wouldn’t this be so much easier if you had not elected a Democrat?)
Also a great picture from Instapundit!
Islam will change
Buff–These OWS demonstrations were in Italy. Those who participated were Italian and there’s no evidence they have any interest in the 2012 US elections. They do have a thriving Communist Party, labor party, and various Socialist parties as well. Things are different over there and lots of people would like to see the end of capitalism. Ya know, it just ain’t like here.
Oh, and it would be a great deal easier to re-elect Obama if he were only a Democrat. NancyO 😉
Eureka! Obama should switch parties now! Why did I not see it before? He is a Rockefeller, Eisenhower, Romney Republican in everything but name only, anyway. With a solid majority in the House and token opposition in the Senate, he could get a Republican Jobs bill cum tax cuts passed in no time. He could get fill all of his appointments easily. 🙂 An Obama-Romney ticket would have a good chance next election, especially once the Jobs bill passes and unemployment comes down. 🙂
Mr. President, do what is best for the country and switch parties!
Oh, if only; then we could actually vote for a progressive/liberal candidate. (Not a manufactured “librul,” whatever BecKKK and Limpbaugh have come to define that term as for Faux Snooze viewers.)
Actually Nancy the remaining Communist party in Italy isn’t thriving. The Communist party split. The larger and more moderate party since fused with fragments of the Christian Democratic, Socialist, Social Democratic and Republican parties to for, you guessed it, the partito Democratico, that is Democratic Party. Believe me, the Italian Democratic party make sthe US Democratic party look united and competent (“I belong to no organized party — I am a Democrat” — Will Rogers).
In contrast the still communist “Rifondazione Communista” and “Partito degli Communisti Italiani” won zero seats in the current Parliament.
Also Italian communists are just not the sort of people who burn Caribiniere trucks.
My claim in my post is a “no true Scottsman” claim that the window smashers and truck burners were infiltrators and no true OWS protester would do such a thing. As noted in the psot, this is the stated view of politicians on the Italian right (the mayor of Rome claims to be an ex Fascist but has some trouble arguing for the ex part — I am not exaggerating). The interior minister (who was way to the left of the Italian Communist back in the 70s) belongs to the xenophobic racist and generally absurd “Lega Nord.”
They say that the violence does not reflect on ordinary decent banker haters (the populist thug right wants the support of banker haters.
The left’s line is that the burners and smashers are people who burn and smash things during demonstrations even though they would really rather burn and smash things during soccer games — that they are hooligans not leftists. No one really knows as they can be identified (they dress in black and wear black ski masks) but don’t have any leaders or organization or political demands or anything.
You will not that my description of my post and my description of the non-party line of the left are identical. I stress that I did not help choose the “*slightly* left of center” motto.
Nice try buff…complexity isn’t your forte it seems.
“Yep the left-wing loons have now come out in force in the OWS.” I’m so good I can’t believe it ! Buffy.
Meanwhile Rome burns. The Office of Homeland Security institionalizes surveilliance of the domestic population. The US of America is failing the children of the Folks that actually fought and won our “independence”. I am supremely confident that this asshole never served one day fighting for our country.
We the people have been under attack for a very long time and are too stupid to reaslize it. Academia is corrupt. Obviously the electorate is so stupid they elected a tea party House Of Representaives after only two years of the Bush/Cheney/Rove blietzkrieg.
The Supreme Court of the United States of America is corrupt. The justice Department, the Securities and Exchange Commission is Corrupt, the …… etc.
Barack O’Bama is corrupt. What has changed since GW left office ? We have increased our militarism, clamped down on Civil Liberties, sustained the tax breaks for the weasels. Our mistake is thinking that a minority would be more than an uncle Tom. Like the Colin Powell and his Son Michael, they are most interested in pleasing their white masters. Unfortunate, but true. I think that Barack O’Bama has fit this mold.
Some believe the Dems are in a stealth campaign via OWS…no attempt to extablish connextions that I can find. Anyone find anything other than innuendo? I can understand the belief, but the funding for TP was evident and traceable.
dan, if i had an inking that the Dems were behind OWS, i wouldnt be supporting them, & my friends wouldnt be participating…
i’ve seen a lot of stories that convinced me of spontaneous participation; here’s a few:
Why the Elites Are in Trouble – Ketchup, a petite 22-year-old from Chicago with wavy red hair and glasses with bright red frames, arrived in Zuccotti Park in New York on Sept. 17. She had a tent, a rolling suitcase, 40 dollars’ worth of food, the graphic version Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States” and a sleeping bag. She had no return ticket, no idea what she was undertaking, and no acquaintances among the stragglers who joined her that afternoon to begin the Wall Street occupation. She decided to go to New York after reading the Canadian magazine Adbusters, which called for the occupation, although she noted that when she got to the park Adbusters had no discernable presence.
Macing Grace – Grace walked past the protesters twice each day, head down, a backpack held to her chest, the walk of a shy girl who’d developed early. Each morning she told herself she was going to join them after work, and each afternoon her extreme self-consciousness got the best of her and she continued past the protest and on to the bus stop. Today was different. A young woman who often rode the same bus had smiled at Grace, smiled and pointed to another young woman’s picket sign and whispered “you should join us”.
correct link: http://www.wildwildleft.com/diary/2231/macing-grace
Robert–Thanks for the backgroud on the Communists and Far Left in Italy. How sad that the once great Left of Italy has come to such a pass. Of course, there is nothing even approaching a real Left in the US. You heard me, Buff! NancyO
Rdan–It takes the wealth of the Koch brothers to engineer a Tea Party. Not too many grassroots organizations come with Dick Armeys and KStreet lobbyists right out of the box. OWS is quite different and seems to be constructed of equal parts of iPhone tweets and FB communications. In any event, it doesn’t look like OWS is trying to take over the Dem party the way that the TP wants expressly to engulf and devour the Repub party.
From my perspective as a Democrat, I don’t blame OWS for not wanting much to do with the Dem party. The only reason I’m a Democrat is because I am a traditionalist, still dancing with them that brung me no mattter how dumb they get. OWS is like a multicelled organism that can dissolve and reassemble itself anywhere at will. Different animal altogether. Looks like OWS people think independently. Looks like it will be a problem for any government to get their support. NancyO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F2FKxxN_IE&feature=player_embedded
Steven Keen predicted/understands the nonlinear economics that are ongoing and provides understandable verbiage for the economics. I concur with his vision of the future and solution of a ‘debt jubilee’.
The difference between between Dr. Keen and Dr. Lammert is that the later proposes that the time evolution of debt-money-asset system is exquisitely patterned elevating macroeconomics to the level of science.
I stopped reading buff…………………
Human dignity will succeed over usury.
“ I went to Pzza San Giovanni to demonstrate but got there when more punctual demonstrators were already leaving. “
Ummm…. if you were later to an event than a bunch of Italians, when exactly did you show up?
I got there at 6:00 PM. I am notoriously unreliable and often late. I have gained that notoreity right here in Italy, where I find people almost intollerably obsessed with punctuality.
Yes I am a desperate case. Why do you ask ?
Rdan,
I don’t need complexity. The pictures tell the story without captions. Crazies who are destroying there own city, breaking things not theirs and otherwise acting like the criminals they are.
Pretty obvious…
Islam will change
NancyO,
And I would thank the Lord (or diety of your choice) that we don’t have a left like in Europe. We’ve seen the results of that type of leftist in the killing fields of Cambodia, the famines of Stalin, and mass-murder of Mao’s Cultural Revolution.
We are very lucky in that way – the pictures of Rome point that out fairly obviously.
Islam will change
Never mind, Robert. Just keep on writin’. NancyO
More OWS astroturf.
You guys are getting played…this will get absorbed by teh Dems by Christmas (or just disappear)
http://bigjournalism.com/dloesch/2011/10/16/journolist-2-0-occupydc-emails-show-msm-dylan-ratigan-working-with-protesters-to-craft-message/
Safe for work.
Islam will change
As a semi Roman I quote the ex(he claims) Fascist Roman mayor Alemanni (an Italian nationalist whose name means “Germans”) who claimed that the smashers and burners came from all over Italy, indeed all over Europe.
This time he is right. Those guys (a grand total of 20 of whom were arrested and identified) travel all over looking for a good riot. Many in the simple but recognizable basic black costume were seen getting off of trains (the demonstrattion was a march from the train station to the largest piazza in Rome).
On the 20 arrests (of whom 8 were released within a day) I do generally support police restraint and it is more important to prevent violence than to arrest vandals, but I mean 20 ?
I heard a little girl walking with her parents through the wreckage (after calm was restored) asking “but did they catch the vandals.” I didn’t hear her parents’ answer, but I bet they were made a bit uncomfortable by the question. Seriously, I agree with the approach of stopping them from wrecking things but don’t try to arrest them (makes the others even more violent). But it is frustrating.
And I stress the vandals are universally considered to be a quite separate group from the vast majority of demonstrators. No one argues about this.
Long before they split into whimps and Naders the Italian Communists broke ewith the USSR.
Amazing pictures.
I am really thunderstuck at how this movement has just exploded around the world. It’s a good reminder that our problem is a global one and the injustice people are protesting is rooted in our institutions.