Open thread July 28, 2011 Dan Crawford | July 28, 2011 7:23 am Tags: open thread Comments (30) | Digg Facebook Twitter |
Tea partying rep Joe Walsh – he’s so concerned with deficit spending he created his own deficit on child support: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60111.html
The Boehner Bill will be voted upon this PM. I expect it to pass and be passed on to the Senate. Reid has signaled it will fail in the Senate, but he will then amend it. I expect magically the new Reid/Boehner bill to then pass the Senate passing it back to the House.
I am also betting that Reid will also have a “poison pill” in that modified version. If the Senate republicans are any good, they will find the pill (if present) and refuse to pass the modified bill until removed.
So it is my opinion we are at the cross roads of having a debt ceiling increase bill, but expect verbal fire works to continue.
I wouldn’t spike that ball on the 5 yard line. Boehner has some hella whipping to do to get it out of the house. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60125.html
An interesting story and a good example of the double talking style of politics that has become rampant on both sides of the aisle, but seems most extreme when applied to our most strident congressional representatives. This quote in particular is indicative of the distance between the BS coming out of some mouths and reality.
“Sen. McCain and folks like him who have been in this town for so long and have no clue as to the troubles Americans are going through right now, they don’t understand this crisis anymore,” Rep Joe Walsh
The deficit has little to do with the economic conditions that now have those troubled Americans in a tight spot. If Mr. Walsh and his cohorts would get down to the business of doing something about jobs on the one hand and controlling the financial industry’s tendency to skullduggery on the other, we might be able to take him seriously. Otherwise he’s just another bad joke on the voters he claims to represent.
AS, well the “Rule” vote just passed in the House! Current vote count is 238 Yes (217 needed) to 186 Nays. They will now go into debate. Passage of the “Rule” step usually assures passage of the bill.
CoRev et al. — The TP’ers and others would not agree to Boehner’s bill and “respectful” attempts to persuade them to vote for the bill. So, vote now. Time of vote unclear. NancyO
At 1900 he was two votes short.
How will boehner keep his gavel? He seems to have put a lot of political capital and posturing into something he couldn’t deliver.
I need to vent!!!
The continuous stream on on the screen footer Faux News this evening: Republican debt plan “could cut $900B”, and raise debt ceiling $900B. As if that makes any kind of sense. Hell, the waste in the war profiteers’ machine is $900B in just two years.
I spent the evening with a thirty something conservative, employed in the military industry congress complex (he has never been in a uniform). I was “treated” to non stop Fox for several hours, the women folk off leaving us men folk to our own sordid devices.
The US Army was nearly destroyed today by a 21 year old Muslim pfc who happened to be AWOL. That was on every quarter hour!!
Then they were breathless awaiting the Boehner republican house embarrassing intellect and voting to make the old, infirm and poor suffer for their vision of imperial christianity, again at least every quarter hour.
Then what got to me a graphic about how many checks go out to people: 303 million check a month. Over 100 million checks for medicare!!!
But nothing in the report about the waste on war and the military industrial congress complex which amounts to over $80B in waste a month.
Thanks for the open thread it is therapy after being exposed to Faux news, and the boy loves FOX he is employed by a very large defense contractor (whom I have dealt with on the other side of the table in the past), works in a country club and his effort is paid whether anything comes of it or not.
No more TV until football!!!
You choose: who gets paid (and who doesn’t) On August 2, the federal government will not have enough cash to pay for all of its programs and obligations. The U.S. will take in a total of $172.4 billion in revenue during the month, but its total payments exceed $306 billion, resulting in a $134 billion shortfall. If a debt-limit increase is not approved, the U.S. Treasury will have to choose among 80 million monthly payments and prioritize which programs are funded and which ones are not. (WaPo interactive)
Bug out of Germany, Bon Steil, Japan, Korea, the Med, the West Pac, and Persian Gulf. Park the 5 carriers that are steaming around the world patrolling the empire and sell them for scrap. Just fill the tanks of anything that rolls from the war stocks and drive to the ports.
The DoD has 200,000 employees supported by nearly the same number of personal servant contractors “buying” stuff” that are wasting trillions, just furlough them all and the last guy out the door issue “stop work” orders to the non performing (all of them) contracts.
And shut the lights off.
How much longer should the house GOP waste time on a bill that will be DOA on the Senate floor?
rjs, a minor quibble, but it may be significant in the long run. The simple math answer is alleviated by a couple of things.
1) Cash on hand. Last week Treasury had ~$83B. Dunno what it will be on the witching date, but that should also be factored.
2) The SS/FICA shortfall will be made up by the SSTF. This difference also need to be factored into the final numbers.
It is why there is much shifting of when the actual witching date may be. August 2 is shown to be some what arbitrary, even though the date differences may be minor.
We’ve seen so much demagoguery over this issue from all sides its getting real hard to tell reality from fantasy.
Doesn’t Boehner’s inability to marshall the votes behind his own plan effectively argue against the strategery of revisiting this issue again in Feb? Or is that the point?
Sure sure. Just keep whistling past that graveyard lol. Bachmann 2012!!!
US G is already defaulting and ignoring appropriations.
Treasury stopped, in May, the accounting trick of crediting the OPM, Military and Military Retirement medical “trust funds” with already no cash transactions ordered by appropriations that manage those trusts, likely $45B in arrears now. That puts off adding to the debt, and might as well cut entitlements to us military retirees too.
Treasury can borrow cash and retire every trust fund balance but SS and medicare. That would be about $1.2T cash raised and only well to do retirees on the lurch.
Then the tea party can say “there is no trust fund” behind OPM, and military retirement.
Which is okay since except for 7% (3% in FERS) in OPM there is no employee cash in those trust funds.
I would rather issue stop work orders on DoD contracts, but that is my “one trick pony”.
1, 2, 3 what are we fighting………….Don’t ask me I don’t give a damNext stop is DebtNAM And a Fish cheer for them all.
Uh Oh! 2nd Qrr GDP growth falls to 1.3% and 1st Qtr lowered to .4%.
From here: http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/29/q2-gdp-falls-to-1-3/
Yeah a big dose of austerity will turn that around.
I warned you yesterday. Austerity will help by keeping funds where they are best utilized, in worker’s pockets. The “s” in your moniker is meaningful in that it shows a complete denial of history and how “S” has succeeded.
BTW, doing more of what has already failed, Obama’s stimulus, is ludicrous. A bigger and wider stimulus only leads us closer to economic cliff.
Is that the same arithmetic you used to predict passage of boehner’s idea yesterday? Just wondering.
“Austerity will help by keeping funds where they are best utilized, in worker’s pockets.”
That’s one very curious comment. How did you come up with that conclusion? The biggest tax reductions, virtually all of those under Bush and continued by Obama, were for the upper two or three percent of income earners. And that’s only on earned income. Dividend and capital gains, almost all of which is the exclusive domain of the very wealthy, is taxed at an even lower rate than the average middle class earner’s net percentage paid.
Austerity, other than as has been suggested by ilsm, is likely to be counter productive if it puts enough government workers out of work. In case the right side of the aisle hasn’t noticed, the people at the VA do very useful work, as do all those health and food insepectors. I’d like to see the national parks stay open. No, I don’t think selling off Yosemite for development serves any useful purpose. Cut waste. Don’t cut government.
“The biggest tax reductions, virtually all of those under Bush and continued by Obama, were for the upper two or three percent of income earners.’
I have seen several people provide the data for you, and you still are pushing the propoganda. You are absolutely incorrect, and I challenge to prove your unrelenting B.S.
The Middle Class gained the most from the tax cuts followed by the poeple who were dropped from the brackets all together. The wealthy only gained about $80 Billion/year of the supposed $3.2 Trillion over ten years, and that is based on a Bush economy. In an Obama economy these numbers drop serverly. So stop with the….”gotta raise taxes to pre-bsuh levels”….it doesn’t solve a damn thing, and most likely will do more damage. We have a spending problem not a revenue problem.
If you get rid of the Bush Tax cuts, the lower brackets take the biggest hits.
Now that CoRev has realized the importance of more money in worker’s pockets I’m sure he’s all over increasing the right to organize.
The wealthy 100,000 people you mummbled get $800B in tax reductions ( that is $80B multplied by 10) while the 100 million other tax payers get 3200B (that is more understandable than $3.2T). And you imply the 100,000 got just a little.
They get the most from the gumint including dividends from war profiteering, as well as other corporate welfare and interest on T Bills they buy in lieu of paying taxes.
Where do you get this misleading tripe?
Post the link and the spreadsheets.
Is FAUX news on in the caff where you work?
There’s been much to-ing and fro-ing about the Tea Party’s impacts. Most left of centerists here keep denying their influence, and then are surprised when they change bills’ trajectories.
If you haven’t noticed politics changed dramatically in last November’s elections. Those changes were a direct result of democratic leadership and president Obama’s policies. They have been rejected!
The $3.2 trillion is going forward….not the years of the Bush Tax Cut from 2001 to 2010.
Years 2010 to the Future are the Obama Tax Cuts.
Those years of supposed “lost revenue,” assuming no change in behavior are $2.1 Trillion in a Bush economy, not an Obama economy. And the $2.1 Trillion is extremely generaous to your arguement!
Gross IncomeAmericans% of Population$1 – $50,00092,594,96071.185%$50,000 – $75,00017,396,91613.374%$75,000 – $100,0009,247,8397.110%$100,000 – $200,0008,422,6036.475%$200,000 – $500,0001,908,4661.467%$500,000 – $1,000,000336,6840.259%$1,000,000 – $1,500,00078,1210.060%$1,500,000 – $2,000,00031,3160.024%$2,000,000 – $5,000,00044,2050.034%$5,000,000 – $10,000,00010,0260.008%$10,000,000 +5,3090.004%
It doesn’t matter….your answer…as expected was focused on class warfare….not whether or not a raise in taxes affects anything.
“In 2000, the top 60 percent of taxpayers paid 100 percent of all income taxes. The bottom 40 percent collectively paid no income taxes. Lawmakers writing the 2001 tax cuts faced quite a challenge in giving the bulk of the income tax savings to a population that was already paying no income taxes.”
“Rather than exclude these Americans, lawmakers used the tax code to subsidize them. (Some economists would say this made that group’s collective tax burden negative.)First, lawmakers lowered the initial tax brackets from 15 percent to 10 percent and then expanded the refundable child tax credit, which, along with the refundable earned income tax credit (EITC), reduced the typical low-income tax burden to well below zero. As a result, the U.S. Treasury now mails tax “refunds” to a large proportion of these Americans that exceed the amounts of tax that they actually paid. All in all, the number of tax filers with zero or negative income tax liability rose from 30 million to 40 million, or about 30 percent of all tax filers. The remaining 70 percent of tax filers received lower income tax rates, lower investment taxes, and lower estate taxes from the 2001 legislation.”
“Consequently, from 2000 to 2004, the share of all individual income taxes paid by the bottom 40 percent dropped from zero percent to –4 percent, meaning that the average family in those quintiles received a subsidy from the IRS. (See Chart 6.) By contrast, the share paid by the top quintile of households (by income) increased from 81 percent to 85 percent.”
“Expanding the data to include all federal taxes, the share paid by the top quintile edged up from 66.6 percent in 2000 to 67.1 percent in 2004, while the bottom 40 percent’s share dipped from 5.9 percent to 5.4 percent. Clearly, the tax cuts have led to the rich shouldering more of the income tax burden and the poor shouldering less.”
Well, Boehner V3.0 has passed. 218 votes for. 210 against. No Dem votes. Now on to the Senate to be voted down, and then we can get to the compromise bill. Monday? Perhaps.
The lower 40%, a lot more of whom are minorities, not that you are racist or anything, can scarcely feed themselves and their kids. Anyone with income a part of the value of their labor the employer pays 6% to SS and they pay 4% (while the SS holiday is on). That is 10% of labor’s output goes to SS, so a little EIC give ’em back some.
It is only “class warfare” when proportion comes into it.
How about more FAUX news?
“When all logic and proportion fall sloppily dead……………….”
I know where you are coming from.
This is not worthy of an answer because this has been hashed out multiple times before.