Hi all, I propose a topic on an issue on another blog about K-12 funding.It was an interesting discussion (to me) that I thought would be interesting here. The Question: When you took American History in High School how far did you get? I graduated in 1980 from HS in Ohio. I actually took it twice since I changed HS schools between my Junior and senior year since I went to a private school as a senior and it was mandatory. In my public HS I got to the end of WWII. We then covered the entire period 1945-1979 in three classes before the final and basically we spent more time covering the two Ohio Civil War Generals who crushed the rebels than those last years.At my private HS we got to the Korean War and with senior skip day basically punted on the rest. No Vietnam, Civil rights, Watergate, Oil-embargos or any Arab-Israeli wars. How far did the readers of AB get?
I went to Coral Gables HS and graduated 1962. We got to Korea. No Nam. The kids who were into debating did current events reports about such arcane stuff as IndoChinese War–French vs. Uncle Ho. We didn’t in regular Civics/Am History. We didn’t do the Cuban Missle Crisis in school. WTVJ didn’t cover it. But, by 1963 I had learned a lot more. First lesson–wars do not assure general economic prosperity in the US. Second lesson, history can get too real when it’s on TV and you get to watch Jack Ruby shoot Oswald on the 6:00 o’clock news. Third lesson, never get involved in a land war in Asia. The rest I learned from Country Joe and the Fish. Nancy Ortiz
Curriculum development and goals is a conscious and deliberate choice at the state level. Ohio history was mandated for a year in 8th grade (in Ohio) when I was in 8th grade. In MA there are only courses like the “60’s” to get us to the present. Check the textbook treatments…way dull, But got to run will be back.
Strange that I don’t recall any focus on American history in HS. Not that it was too long ago to remember, but rather that it seems not to have been a subject of study at that time, 1961 graduation. There was “Western Civilization” with its focus on Europe. The 100 Years War, the French Revolution, etc. It’s a bit vague because it was scant material. That seems strange to me now. I think there was a bit more focus in Jr HS and elementary school. I hardly remember any attention to the Civil War other than the most broad generalities. Who did what, when and with whom was not much focused on. That does now seem strange for a NYC schooling.
you are saying you “learned History” before you had enough grownup experience to understand it?
As far as I can remember we “stopped” at about the Civil War. It was assumed that if we read the papers we know about the rest, and they didn’t want to get involved in politics.
So we did learn more about the Constitution than most of the younger people prating about it today.
I did have a lovely man, Miles Malone, teach history in college. His brother was Dumas Malone, THE biographer of Thomas Jefferson. MIles taught history as though he had just had breakfast with Teddy Roosevelt. And he encouraged me to use the library where I learned about the role of cartels in WW 1.
Yes, you can learn more than they teach in schools nowadays. But you got to read a lot, and be skeptical, mostly about what you “know” is true.
I stand humbled. Did you ever meet Teddy Rosevelt? Since if you only got to the Civil War in your 1-room school house you must have been there when they charged up San Juan Hill…right?? 🙂
As for history classes – I have had a life long love for it. I easily tested out of the required history course and took the advanced once instead (I would have had a history minor if my college gave out minors). My next book on history is going to be VDH’s Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power. If its good I’ll follow it with the one on the Peloponnesian War. Both are at the library and look good.
BTW, My essay on the orgins of WW I, wrote in long-hand as part of my test out in European history got me an ‘A’ and 3 credits and out of the course!
you missed the point. i didn’t need to meet teddy. i had miles to tell me about him.
Funny thing about my one room school house is that by the fourth grade in Chicago I had read a pretty detailed history of the Civil War that was nothing like what they said in the twelfth grade in Florida.
oh wait, now i remember the history of the US after the war between the states
Grant had a scandal and Teddy charged up San Juan Hill and McKinley got shot And Wilson kept us out of war and the Business of America was Business until Hoover crushed the Bonus Army and Roosevelt saved capitalism from itself and Truman fired McArthur I liked Ike and Kennedy got shot and LBJ had vietnam which was won by Jane Fonda who defeated the American Army with one hand tied behind their back. then Tricky Dick came back and was no a crook. And Carter gave us all malaise until Reagan won the cold war and brought back the sun. Bush drew a line in the sand and Clinton did not have sex with that woman on accounta he was on the phone at the time. Then Bush Jr cut taxes and had a recession or two caused by the Clinton tax increase And Obama had the audacity to hope he could be just like Bush.
WI Republicans have done it! They are separating the union impacting part from the budget bill, and will pass them as a separeate law. It will not require the 2/3 quorum to vate on the separate bill. Its been an option from the first day, but they chose to try to convince the Democratic senators to return to vote.
Combined with IN, OH, NJ, TN and the several more states that will be emboldened, its a huge union loss.
You missed the smiley face – I understood what you said. Just from the post it seem everyone stopped roughly 20 (or more) years prior to their actual taking the course. Which would make you a Civil War baby boomer!!!
But the replies (and the ones from the other thread) seem to show people didn’t want to get into the current era. I’ve watched the same for my kids now.
CoRev, Have you been invited to the Koch Bros.’ blow out in Cali? Do you think that you’ll fit in with the rest of the crowd? I don’t know that the action taken by Walker and his cohorts will have the long term effect that they seem to envision. Certainly the near future will be interesting to watch as it unfolds. I’m curious to see what next issue will be used to further brow beat the middle class which is being beaten down severely.
coberly – “What MG fails to note here is that Social Security pays for itself.”
It was never my intention to provide the operational history of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or Other Mandatory spending. This is a summary presentation of the net impacts on the General Fund by the Government programs identified in the title based on data provided in the three references cited. This information will be rolled into a more comprehensive General Fund budget presentation later on.
coberly – “It’s [Social Security OASDI] funding has nothing to do with “the budget” however the liars try to confuse the issue. What the liars are saying is that we have pissed away so much money that we are going to have to take away your retirement in order to keep buying enough beer to keep everyone stupid enough to believe this.”
There is most assuredly an accounting relationship between Social Security OASDI cashflow surpluses and shortfalls and the General Fund.
You need to add the Stephen Goss, Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration, to your list of supposed liars.
Stephen Goss stated last year in Social Security Bulletin, Vol. 70 No. 3, 2010 that “the trust fund assets are generally assumed to be a wash: an asset for the trust funds, but an equal liability for the General Fund of the Treasury.” Stephen Goss stated further that “it is reasonable to assume that the financial markets understand that securities held by the trust funds may be redeemed in the future, requiring the Treasury to collect additional taxes, lower other federal spending, or borrow additionally from the public.”
The Social Security OASDI combined trust funds like many other Government trust funds have an impact on the operation of the General Fund. This is the case whether trust funds provide surplus cashflows for other Government operations and payments, or require reimbursement from the General Fund to the trust funds as may be required based on trust fund cash balances and Government debt holdings including any interest earned on such holdings. It is readily acknowledged that surpluses of Government trust funds offset some portion of existing on-budget funding deficits should such exist, or reduce needed funding levels of appropriations for other Government programs. Similarly, it is also understood by budget analysts and others that reimbursements to Government trust funds from the General Fund increase the funding obligations or outlays of the General Fund.
If Government trust fund reimbursement outlays require the issuance of new Treasuries on the open market, interest costs for such publicly held issuance are added to the interest costs outlays already identified in the General Fund. As such, trust fund reimbursements by the General Fund can involve a dual line accounting entry, one for trust fund reimbursement costs identified as a Government program outlay and one for related interest costs if such exist.
This information is readily understood by many individuals familiar with government fiscal accounting procedures.
coberly – “What is “crowding out” spending is tax cuts.”
Reductions in Federal revenues to the General Fund obviously play such a role, but growth in General Fund outlays does as well. It’s a double edged sword. Both situations impact the operations of the General Fund, increase the potential need for more publicly held debt financing, and, ultimately, may require reductions in outlays. […]
Hi all,
I propose a topic on an issue on another blog about K-12 funding. It was an interesting discussion (to me) that I thought would be interesting here.
The Question: When you took American History in High School how far did you get?
I graduated in 1980 from HS in Ohio. I actually took it twice since I changed HS schools between my Junior and senior year since I went to a private school as a senior and it was mandatory. In my public HS I got to the end of WWII. We then covered the entire period 1945-1979 in three classes before the final and basically we spent more time covering the two Ohio Civil War Generals who crushed the rebels than those last years. At my private HS we got to the Korean War and with senior skip day basically punted on the rest.
No Vietnam, Civil rights, Watergate, Oil-embargos or any Arab-Israeli wars.
How far did the readers of AB get?
Buff, it is too long to remember clearly, but I seem to remember WWII. I graduated before VN.
I went to Coral Gables HS and graduated 1962. We got to Korea. No Nam. The kids who were into debating did current events reports about such arcane stuff as IndoChinese War–French vs. Uncle Ho. We didn’t in regular Civics/Am History. We didn’t do the Cuban Missle Crisis in school. WTVJ didn’t cover it. But, by 1963 I had learned a lot more. First lesson–wars do not assure general economic prosperity in the US. Second lesson, history can get too real when it’s on TV and you get to watch Jack Ruby shoot Oswald on the 6:00 o’clock news. Third lesson, never get involved in a land war in Asia. The rest I learned from Country Joe and the Fish. Nancy Ortiz
Coral Gables is in Miami, BTW. WTVJ was the CBS station. NancyO
Curriculum development and goals is a conscious and deliberate choice at the state level. Ohio history was mandated for a year in 8th grade (in Ohio) when I was in 8th grade. In MA there are only courses like the “60’s” to get us to the present. Check the textbook treatments…way dull, But got to run will be back.
Rdan,
Yes, the textbooks were dull, mine even by textbook standards…
The curriculum should have got us to about 1975 by the handouts I vaguely remember getting. We never got there or even close.
I tested out of American, European, and World history in college so never took them there.
Strange that I don’t recall any focus on American history in HS. Not that it was too long ago to remember, but rather that it seems not to have been a subject of study at that time, 1961 graduation. There was “Western Civilization” with its focus on Europe. The 100 Years War, the French Revolution, etc. It’s a bit vague because it was scant material. That seems strange to me now. I think there was a bit more focus in Jr HS and elementary school. I hardly remember any attention to the Civil War other than the most broad generalities. Who did what, when and with whom was not much focused on. That does now seem strange for a NYC schooling.
Buff
you are saying you “learned History” before you had enough grownup experience to understand it?
As far as I can remember we “stopped” at about the Civil War. It was assumed that if we read the papers we know about the rest, and they didn’t want to get involved in politics.
So we did learn more about the Constitution than most of the younger people prating about it today.
I did have a lovely man, Miles Malone, teach history in college. His brother was Dumas Malone, THE biographer of Thomas Jefferson. MIles taught history as though he had just had breakfast with Teddy Roosevelt. And he encouraged me to use the library where I learned about the role of cartels in WW 1.
Yes, you can learn more than they teach in schools nowadays. But you got to read a lot, and be skeptical, mostly about what you “know” is true.
coboerly,
I stand humbled. Did you ever meet Teddy Rosevelt? Since if you only got to the Civil War in your 1-room school house you must have been there when they charged up San Juan Hill…right?? 🙂
As for history classes – I have had a life long love for it. I easily tested out of the required history course and took the advanced once instead (I would have had a history minor if my college gave out minors). My next book on history is going to be VDH’s Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power. If its good I’ll follow it with the one on the Peloponnesian War. Both are at the library and look good.
BTW, My essay on the orgins of WW I, wrote in long-hand as part of my test out in European history got me an ‘A’ and 3 credits and out of the course!
Islam will change
buff
you missed the point. i didn’t need to meet teddy. i had miles to tell me about him.
Funny thing about my one room school house is that by the fourth grade in Chicago I had read a pretty detailed history of the Civil War that was nothing like what they said in the twelfth grade in Florida.
and i still read a little.
oh wait, now i remember the history of the US after the war between the states
Grant had a scandal and Teddy charged up San Juan Hill and McKinley got shot
And Wilson kept us out of war and the Business of America was Business until
Hoover crushed the Bonus Army and Roosevelt
saved capitalism from itself and Truman fired McArthur
I liked Ike and Kennedy got shot and LBJ had vietnam
which was won by Jane Fonda who defeated the American Army
with one hand tied behind their back. then Tricky Dick came back
and was no a crook. And Carter gave us all malaise until Reagan
won the cold war and brought back the sun. Bush drew a line in the sand and Clinton did not have sex with that woman on accounta he was on the phone at the time.
Then Bush Jr cut taxes and had a recession or two caused by the Clinton tax increase
And Obama had the audacity to hope he could be just like Bush.
Does that about cover it?
David Mc Cullough introduced me to Teddy Roosevelt as well as John Adams.
WI Republicans have done it! They are separating the union impacting part from the budget bill, and will pass them as a separeate law. It will not require the 2/3 quorum to vate on the separate bill. Its been an option from the first day, but they chose to try to convince the Democratic senators to return to vote.
Combined with IN, OH, NJ, TN and the several more states that will be emboldened, its a huge union loss.
It’s actually a huge surge in organizing, favorable/unfavorable ratings and popular appeal. Let’s see how the recall elections play out.
coberly,
You missed the smiley face – I understood what you said. Just from the post it seem everyone stopped roughly 20 (or more) years prior to their actual taking the course. Which would make you a Civil War baby boomer!!!
But the replies (and the ones from the other thread) seem to show people didn’t want to get into the current era. I’ve watched the same for my kids now.
Islam will change
buff
i don’t always type in my smiling face. sneaky that way.
btw
as background for the Peloponnesian war, you might read The Emergence of Greek Democracy by W.G.Forrest.
Then we can talk about democracy and dictatorship and paternalism.
CoRev,
Have you been invited to the Koch Bros.’ blow out in Cali? Do you think that you’ll fit in with the rest of the crowd? I don’t know that the action taken by Walker and his cohorts will have the long term effect that they seem to envision. Certainly the near future will be interesting to watch as it unfolds. I’m curious to see what next issue will be used to further brow beat the middle class which is being beaten down severely.
coberly – “What MG fails to note here is that Social Security pays for itself.”
It was never my intention to provide the operational history of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or Other Mandatory spending. This is a summary presentation of the net impacts on the General Fund by the Government programs identified in the title based on data provided in the three references cited. This information will be rolled into a more comprehensive General Fund budget presentation later on.
coberly – “It’s [Social Security OASDI] funding has nothing to do with “the budget” however the liars try to confuse the issue. What the liars are saying is that we have pissed away so much money that we are going to have to take away your retirement in order to keep buying enough beer to keep everyone stupid enough to believe this.”
There is most assuredly an accounting relationship between Social Security OASDI cashflow surpluses and shortfalls and the General Fund.
You need to add the Stephen Goss, Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration, to your list of supposed liars.
Stephen Goss stated last year in Social Security Bulletin, Vol. 70 No. 3, 2010 that “the trust fund assets are generally assumed to be a wash: an asset for the trust funds, but an equal liability for the General Fund of the Treasury.”
Stephen Goss stated further that “it is reasonable to assume that the financial markets understand that securities held by the trust funds may be redeemed in the future, requiring the Treasury to collect additional taxes, lower other federal spending, or borrow additionally from the public.”
The Social Security OASDI combined trust funds like many other Government trust funds have an impact on the operation of the General Fund. This is the case whether trust funds provide surplus cashflows for other Government operations and payments, or require reimbursement from the General Fund to the trust funds as may be required based on trust fund cash balances and Government debt holdings including any interest earned on such holdings. It is readily acknowledged that surpluses of Government trust funds offset some portion of existing on-budget funding deficits should such exist, or reduce needed funding levels of appropriations for other Government programs. Similarly, it is also understood by budget analysts and others that reimbursements to Government trust funds from the General Fund increase the funding obligations or outlays of the General Fund.
If Government trust fund reimbursement outlays require the issuance of new Treasuries on the open market, interest costs for such publicly held issuance are added to the interest costs outlays already identified in the General Fund. As such, trust fund reimbursements by the General Fund can involve a dual line accounting entry, one for trust fund reimbursement costs identified as a Government program outlay and one for related interest costs if such exist.
This information is readily understood by many individuals familiar with government fiscal accounting procedures.
coberly – “What is “crowding out” spending is tax cuts.”
Reductions in Federal revenues to the General Fund obviously play such a role, but growth in General Fund outlays does as well. It’s a double edged sword. Both situations impact the operations of the General Fund, increase the potential need for more publicly held debt financing, and, ultimately, may require reductions in outlays. […]