Wisconsin, fiscal responsibility, and power
From the Capitol Times op-ed (hat tip juan):
In fact, like just about every other state in the country, Wisconsin is managing in a weak economy. The difference is that Wisconsin is managing better — or at least it had been managing better until Walker took over. Despite shortfalls in revenue following the economic downturn that hit its peak with the Bush-era stock market collapse, the state has balanced budgets, maintained basic services and high-quality schools, and kept employment and business development steadier than the rest of the country. It has managed so well, in fact, that the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau recently released a memo detailing how the state will end the 2009-2011 budget biennium with a budget surplus.
In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state’s budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.To the extent that there is an imbalance — Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit — it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes — or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues — the “crisis” would not exist.
The Fiscal Bureau memo — which readers can access at http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf — makes it clear that Walker did not inherit a budget that required a repair bill.
Don’t be fooled: Wisconsin’s budget woes are real
“The Badger State is not in good shape. Like many other states, it is facing a huge fiscal hole over the next two years. Wisconsin calculates its budgets on a biennial basis, and the latest estimate for the next two-year budget is for a $3.6 billion deficit. Sure, that number is considerably bigger than a $2.2 billion deficit projected by the outgoing Democratic administration, and Walker has obvious political reasons for inflating it, but independent analysts do not find the figures out of line.“
http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2011/02/18/wisconsins_budget_woes_are_real
Good points made. Question though, given no future federal stimulus help the next biennial will need more drastic solutions than the last biennial.
The main thing Walker is really after is union busting. Otherwise he wouldn’t be pushing not only for financial concessions, but a complete elimination of union ability to negotiate work rules, a refusal by the state to withhold union dues from paychecks and forcing the union to hold a certification election every year. Consider that even pay negotiation is limited to a maximum of the CPI unless there is a special referendum where the entire population of the state must approve any raise in excess of that amount. Then add to that the requirement that 12.6% of their health care insurance must be paid for by them. Then remember how much the yearly increases in health care insurance outstrips the CPI. I think of it as a mandatory annual decrease in take home pay.
Thanks for the links sammy. Most states are having a tough time, yes. If the battlelines were around that issue, so be it. But the 2009 budget battles were fierce as well without the additional issues of collective bargaining.
Taking the pensions of civil servants, teachers, and firefighters saves maybe $150 million as the salon article also points out. about equal to the tax cuts of January.
If mandated medicaid costs are the also a driver, according to the salon link, it gets complicated, no?
But the key point is that the big scarey number is requests from agencies, which appears to be the way budgets are done in Wisconsin. The last budget at the agency request level, which is the big scarey number, was about plus 9%, and was funded negative 2,4% in real budget, without the loud noises and idealogy.
Don’t be fooled: Wisconsin’s budget crisis is manufactured
“To the extent that there is an imbalance — Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit — it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes — or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues — the “crisis” would not exist.”
http://m.host.madison.com/mobile/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html
“Walker on Friday ruled out a compromise proposed by a key union to retain collective bargaining rights in exchange for public workers accepting benefit cuts.
At a press conference, Walker said he could not consider the offer by the largest state workers union because it only covered some public employees and came late in the process.
Walker and other Republicans have been trying to pass a controversial bill that would end a half-century of collective bargaining for most public workers in Wisconsin.
Opponents of the bill staged their largest rally so far on Friday. Police estimated some 40,000 attended, exceeding Thursday’s 25,000.”
update msnbc report. Lots of extraordinary feelings surfacing.
Let’s talk just a little about why teachers, paid by localities, are effected by and protesting state budget cuts. Most local budgets are predominated by salary/wage/pension/benefit costs. It is also at this level where most key services (pot hole repair, garbage collection, sewer and water, public [fire/police] safety, other emergency services and education, etc.) reach the voters. Public safety and eduation are the two largest of those local budget expenses.
Revenues for these functions are comprised mostly from diminishing property tax receipts, diminishing income tax receipts, diminishing transfers from upper level governments (stimulus, and state level fee/tax collections), and those local taxes that they have implemented (usually because state allows them) to collect. In most states tax collection is the state’s responsibility and its delegation to lower levels is tightly protected. Voters have signalled that they will not be pleased to see tax increases during this recession.
So the trickle down effect of this recession has reached a critical point, where those affected, especially at the local levels, are asked to give back some of their pay/benefits. this is not new, it has been an ongoing impact for the past years, but what is new is the criticality. Local governments are past the point where manipulating the budget (budget tricks) can suffice. Real, deep cuts are required, and the racking and stacking of services rendered is serious. Since those represent salaries/benefits we have teachers, the largest group affected, and to a lesser extent other state and local employees protesting.
Overlay this budget reality with unions who are fighting for their lives after the auto industry losses, Christy’s surprising success in NJ, and the ongoing requests for give backs at nearly every other locality, and the union participation in these protests is obvious.
Because of the recession and it slow recovery there is probably little chance they will win. The best they can help for is some compromise in budget cut impacts. Unions will continue to be the inevitable losers.
“Real, deep cuts are required, and the racking and stacking of services rendered is serious”
And real, significant tax increases are not required too? Why not?
Krugman(?), “Fifty Hoovers contracting.” The battle is being fought at the state levels because of funding issues due to the shrinking revenue caused by people not working. The deficit and Medicaid are symptoms of a much larger issue which is a shrinking Labor Force. Looking to cut Medicaid and not appeal to Congress for an extension of Medicaid is little more than a cop out. The long term view on Medicaid is the ACA:
Medicaid Funding –ACA –Health Care Reconciliation Act 2010
–January 1, 2014 –December 31, 2016 –100% (Federal)
–2017 –95%
–2018 –94%
–2019 –93%
–2020 –90%
In 2014, Medicaid is 100% funded.
CoRev:
Racing to the bottom is not a solution to the economic issue. Wisconsin (MadCity) schools were funded by property taxes which do not decrease significantly in economic downturns. The issue is union busting in Wisconsin with no apparrent attempt by the governor to reach a compromise in benefit costs.
Jim Satterfield
I’m on your side, but I like to point out that paying for health care is part of what people pay for. You can’t expect the state to pay for it and hold you harmless. It is part of your wage. There is a great need to control health care costs. That won’t happen as long as people think it is free, or ought to be free. Something the boss or the government pays for.
That said, of course the workers need to be able to bargain for a “living wage”, and that includes the cost of health care.
But you are right about the Union busting. The right wing morons of great wealth won’t be happy until public workers have to take bribes in order to make a living.
I guess they understand bribes better than they understand taxes. Bribes are, after all, a form of “free enterprise,” and you only bribe someone for what you want. With taxes you might end up paying for something someone else wants or something that you don’t understand you need.
Ask the WI voters. If revenue increases are passed, so be it. Remember the voters spoke in November.
Why? I’d like to keep what’s left of my money after paying the already high taxes.
CoRev
under a veneer of sophisticated analysis, you come to the conclusion that the people have to sell themselves into slavery because the “voters have signaled they will not be pleased with tax increases…”
no. the “voters” are the high end malefactors of great wealth who ALWAYS “signal” that they don’t want higher taxes. Since those people now control the politicians, we have entered a death spiral of lower taxes that won’t pay for maintaining the country or the country’s economy. This is an entirely predictable consequence of human behavior, the way the primitive brain is wired. We always see the point of immediate gain for ourselves. It is much harder to see long term gain that comes by sharing work (money). Humans have evolved to the point where they CAN manage this, but only with difficulty. The Founders understood this fact of human nature and their remedy for it was “checks and balances.” We have lost the checks and balances.
But, in case you missed the point, a union is a check on the boss’s power… even when “the boss” is “the people,” or the taxpayers who “signal.”
Good post CoRev. Joel, the world is changing. People in the private sector are working longer hours, working weekends, paying more for healthcare, experienced their employer freezing their 401K match, taking on additional responsibilites of people layed off and not replaced. If they haven’t taken a pay cut then they haven’t seen a raise in the past few years. People are really stretched. There’s little sympathy for people who just say raise taxes to fix the problem.
I live in CT and I think the biggest change that has happened over the last 10 years is the nature of corporations and the nature of employment. CT has always been a brutual environment towards business but its industries were such that it was too expensive for the employers to just pick up and leave. Likewise, employers paid well so wealth tended to stay in CT. We’ve experienced population declines over the last 20 years but it tended to be younger workers and less educated workers because CT was too expensive to live.
Thats all changed. The major CT employers have built operations in China or elsewhere oveseas. Work has been steadily shifting there over the last ten years. Many employee’s now work from home or their jobs can be worked from home but their employer prefers them in the office. I can picked up and move anywhere in the country on Saturday and fire up my computer on Monday and start working. My employer could care less.
So if CT wants to level the cost of unfunded pension and healthcare liabilities to its corporations they’ll shift their remaining operations to China. We’re seeing this alreayd. If CT tries to shift the burden onto private sector workers, who are just treading water at best, then they’ll leave and logon to their work from another state that is without the confiscatory taxes (or atleast a better balances between taxes and desired services).
States are no longer in a position to tax at will and this will ultimately drive what is happening in Wisconsin across the country.
Dan, some basic numbers. ~50% of the state budget is pass through to local governbments. About 50 to 60% of local government spending is for education. Public safety makes up the next big portion of local government budgets, but, and very big but, nearly all that local spending is for wages and benefits. Those wages and benefits are locked by union negotiated contracts.
In times of seriously diminished revenues something has to give. If not the already negotiated wages/benefits in union contracts, then it will be jobs.
Walker does not eliminate union rights, but does limit them. What the unions also object to is the right for public employess to stop paying union dues, a major loss of political leverage.
Union membership has been on a long downward slide, and this recession and efforts like Christy, Walker, Kasich, Cuomo, and probably Brown are likely to speed that decline. The unions are fighting back but they are in a losing battle against human nature in a world of diminishing opportunities.
Run, as I see, it the unions have made it a Big, public and open fight, for unions rights. In most locales, the concessions have been quietly negotiated and the unions have deferred to the reality of diminished revenues without losing future rights.
I’m not sure what led up to the WI fight, but in “union” states, businesses have been relocating for nearly a generation.
Walker appears to be trying to rectify it by becoming less union friendly. I think the writing is on the walls for unions. See MI for multiple examples.
So who’s driving the rush to the bottom? Everybody! Unions have their part also.
Run, the WI budget issues center on the 2012-13 budget years. One article explains the WI medicaid problem this way:
“Medicaid is a joint program between states and the federal government, which provides most of the money and sets minimum standards. Wisconsin’s Medicaid programs are expected to be short $1.8 billion by 2013, according to state estimates.”
From here: http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20110213/OSH0101/102130336/0/OSH07/Cuts-BadgerCare-could-leave-1-000-local-adults-uninsured?odyssey=nav|head
Wisconsin’s Medicaid programs are expected to be short $1.8 billion by 2013,
Which further emphasizes that the assault on the unions is really irrelevant to the budget problem, and is a major goal in and of itself.
Private sector union membership has declined to something in the 11 to 12% range. Public sector union membership is still over 30%, so that is where the major thrust of union busting is. (It’ also why rethugs love wall st bailouts but hate the auto industry bailouts.)
Whether you know it or not, everything you take for granted as part of your quality of life, from a living wage to the 8 hr day, 40 hr week, weekends off, paid vacations, retirement plans – every bit of that came to you because of unions. And most of that originated in Wisconsin.
Early in my career in product development I discovered that every time the union negotiated a new contract – with or without a strike – I got the same benefits in my non-union job.
This is absolutely about union busting – Walker’s refusal to budge on collective bargaining when the union agreed yesterday to meet all his financial demands made that totally transparent.
Unions support the Democratic party, and are the only entity that can com close to balancing the effects of the Citizens United decision. Destroy the Unions and you pave the way to one party rule – wholly owned and operated by Koch industries. That is what’s at stake here. And this is not my angry liberal fantasy – it’s directly from Karl Rove’s lips.
What you refuse to recognize, CoRev, Sammy, MG, etc. is that this is the real road to serfdom, and that the Koch brothers, who are behind all of this, want every penny you have, and want to take your grandchildren back to the 12th century. And you are willing to let that happen.
That is the sad reality,
JzB
no one bothered to downloaf the ‘fiscal bureau memo’?
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf
Joel–ummm, indeed, why not tax increases? Tax cuts but not increases in WI are the product of a fantastic view of government. Namely, we don’t need government so it has to be destroyed. We need it alright. The Governor of WI Walker may be. But, a King he’s not. I would say he is abusing his power in regard to his dealings with a few of the unions in that state. Well, he can be recalled. And, I suspect it’s possible he will be. NancyO
NO, I respectfully disagree. Look again at the list of services and the impacts from diminishing revenues. The blame Walker game is on, but the cause is obvious.
Juan, I did, and read it too! Your point?
Why not just declare bankruptcy for everyone. Then start over. Of course, then those at the top would lose out, perhaps in the new positions, wouldn’t be at the top. As the Wi demos show, this isn’t going to be an isolated happening. All these Governors grappling with their budgits, have to realize what their actions will produce, not just exacerbate the problem to appease a certain segment of backers. The insanity that has gripped the political establishment here in the U.S. is mind-boggling. The population keeps growing, but the ability to employ isn’t keeping up. This isn’t the fault of unions, but is the fault of the business think. Before some go off on me for my comments here, the politicians are doing their usual “KABUKI” flexing their mouths instead of tackling the real issues here, using scapegoats don’t solve the problems. I really don’t understand the thinking when the results are producing a direct slide into the proverbial toilet. I guess this is what all the voters wanted, a bunch of dilletants to bring the American way of life crashing down upon their heads.
Dave, the world is changing. US citizens pay some of the lowest tax rates in the developed world. Federal income tax rates were higher under Clinton, when we enjoyed far higher levels of employment. Federal income tax rates were even higher under St. Ronnie. In the 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was over 90%, and we built the interstate highway system.
Yes, Dave, the world is changing. And the US is changing–back to a time when the middle class was small, when public support for healthcare, education and domestic infrastructure was modest.
Yes, Dave, the world is changing. The US has decided it no longer wants to be a leader of the developed world, but would rather take its place among the second-tier nations, content to watch its infrastructure crumble and its best and brightest emigrate.
So why doesn’t the WI governor respond by showing some leadership and explaining to WI citizens that they should be paying for important state services?
Why can’t you admit that tax cuts don’t pay for anything, CoRev? Why can’t you admit that the solution to WIs budget problems isn’t union-busting? Why can’t you admit that tax increases must be part of the solution in WI and nationally? Why the blinders, CoRev?
Joel, this one hits a nerve: “The US has decided it no longer wants to be a leader of the developed world, but would rather take its place among the second-tier nations, content to watch its infrastructure crumble and its best and brightest emigrate.” That’s way too general a statement to allow discussion. Some of those are impacts of liberal and some are impacts of conservative policies.
Joel, you’ve just turned your anger from what’s going on in WI to anger with me by personalizing. I’m seriously trying to be dispassionately analytical here in trying to understand and present the underlying issues.
This whole day’s articles have been interesting when taken as a whole. Thoma explains what is going on with the deficit (with one major exception) and the WI articles indicate how that budget deficit is carried through to the states. My entry was to describe how those state issues are carried down to the local levels.
Then we have the sacred cows discussions, SS, Defense spending, HC, etc. The subject of these articles are not disparate, but are better understood by reviewing the whole. And this is why I went off on the “context” issue several weeks ago.
did you see a deficit?
Norman said: “Why not just declare bankruptcy for everyone.” The anwer is because there is no such mechanism in the bankruptcy codes. Hre’s an interesting article that explains the states’ capabilities. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704881304576094091992370356.html
The remainder of your comment is just another rant to which its not worth responding.
Norman said: “Why not just declare bankruptcy for everyone.” The anwer is because there is no such mechanism in the bankruptcy codes. Here’s an interesting article that explains the states’ capabilities. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704881304576094091992370356.html
The remainder of your comment is just another rant to which its not worth responding.
Actually, you seem to have not noticed this is a report of the 2010-2011 revenue/budget. The argument is over the 2012-2013 budget. This report does not cover expenditures for that period, but does do projections for revenues.
Joel,
Your points are accurate but miss the mark. Yes, tax rates were higher in the past and a stronger middle class and lower unemployment. The economy of Clinton and both Bushes was an illusion, the US was hemoraging back then but it was masked by low interest rates, a short-term vibrant real estate industry, and a fed propped stock market. Back when tax rates were 90% there was a protectionist business climate and Europe needed to be rebuilt. There was a greater fear of socialism taking hold in the US and business and government cooperated to ensure workers a standard of living out of fear. That climate no longer exists.
There’s no going back to that world. Nor should we. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. The internet allows for global business transactions by an individual of any economic class from the comfort of their sofa. Shipping containers and giant tankers allow for cost effective means to export goods to far away lands. Manufacturing has evolved to making use of a global supply chain. The fact is that the US population is consuming 25% of the worlds resources and its unsustainable. Our standard of living is based on exploiting overseas labor to produce cheap flat-panel TVs and such while most of the worlds population doesn’t have running water. The balance of the percent of the worlds resources the US consumes is what is changing in the global economy. Our standard of living is being tied to the standard of living of other countries. We drop, they will come up. No longer can we watch a baseball game on a giant flat panel TV in our air conditioned house with two cars in the garage while figuring out what to eat from the refrigerator while ignoring all the people who made that possible that don’t have indoor plumbing.
Over the past 5 years, private sector worker expectations are just starting to be reset. Now the fight is the beginning of the resetting of public sector expectations and it’ll probably take busting unions to make that possible (I support unions). Writing is on the wall.
I work in IT so I am directly impacted by the global economy. I’ve seen coworkers who were my friends lose their jobs because the company transferred their positions to China. Others were forced to take pay cuts or face losing their jobs overseas. It’s tough and I was worried about the consequences for me. My wife lost her job and was unemployed for a year before finding another position. She was almost forced to take a 50% pay cut but her new position is only 5% less. Luckily, we live frugally and save. Not many I know do. Regardless of how I feel about the global economic changes and how it impacts my family, we are still better off than the living conditions in many other countries. Just visit China.
So yes the world is changing, and yes those changes are impacting all Americans, but our consumption is unsustainable and ignores the plight of billions of people in other countries that make that possible.
Al
you are a victim of propaganda and a moral fallacy. “your” money comes to you because of the society you live in, which is made possible by taxes at a certain level. below that level the society begins to come apart, and “your money” will sooner or later disappear.
this doesn’t mean “your money” is always well spent… hell it isn’t even well spent when you spend it, and you know that… but it does mean a politics based on stupid greed will cost you more money in the long run than a policy that recognizes there are public needs and public employees need to be paid a fair wage and unions are the only way they have a voice in what “fair wage” means.
Dave
you got it backwards. your declining circumstances are BECAUSE the owners of private companies are screwing you. screwing the public sector just assures that your situation will continue to get worse.
CoRev
you seem to have adopted the MG line. we can’t talk about anything unless we talk about everything at once and agree with you.
CoRev
the serial ranter here is you.
Norman’s point was probably not meant to be taken literally, but to point a moral: “debt” is a kind of illusion. if the debtor doesn’t pay, the holder of the debt is not necessarily any worse off: he wasn’t using the money anyway, except as a lever to get more money… which he may or may not use, or need. in any case the risk is always the lender… except in a society controlled by money, in which case not paying a debt can get your thumbs broken.
we could abolish all debt, and all positions of privilege, and start over without hurting much of anything.
i don’t recommend this because i like order in things, including who owes what to whom. that’s why I want to see the money that is owed TO social security repaid and not finessed by some dishonest argument about the fungibility of money once it passes through the Treasury door.
Coberly,
“…owners of private companies are screwing you. screwing the public sector just assures that your situation will continue to get worse.”
I view it that public company executives, private company owners, wealthy elites, and government officials are using their power to execute a vision of global affairs. Their vision is in conflict with the desires of Americans though this vision does open opportunity if one is willing to seize it.
Saying that my interests are aligned with the unions is a farce. Unions are only looking out for themselves. Saying I should join their fight by having me pay higher taxes and derive no benefit for myself is a one-sided deal. That’s why the politicians are framing this as an attack on the middle class, trying to gain my support, but they don’t author a tax bill making the top 1% pay for it. The politicans know you need a lot more money than taxing the top 1% to pay for what they’ve promised and they also know those people will leave whichever state tries tax them at ridiculous levels. Politicians don’t have the guts to tell the public sector that they may have made promises to them that are completely unaffordable.
Dave
Unions have brung you were you are today. They helped create the middle class. Since the trickle down economics have only turned a pee down and we have had a 30 year class warefare we have a shrinking middle class. A nation with a declining middle class is a nation in decline. The unions do protect your interests too, you just do nothing, except take what others fight for.
CoRev,
the corporations are driving the rush to the bottom. Years of class warfare has broken the unions and the middle class. They are with their backs against the wall, they better fight now while they have some muscle left. The unions were where the industrial power once was, the heavy steel industry, that industry is gone, even all the concessions the unions made could not stop that. Look at Detroit or Flint or all the steel towns around Pittsburgh. That is the face of the nation. The nation is crumbling and people like Walker play political games. The Boehners in congress argue about abortion and repealing the health care reform while the nation falls apart.
Anonymous corporate money spoke in November.
Dave
the desires of Americans as all people are often unobtainable if not in actual conflict with reality.
the only way people have of adjusting their desires to the real world is by … well, work helps, but history tends to show that without cooperative action, the hardest worker cannot change his circumstances by much. elections in a democracy have helped, and unions have helped.
your present standard of living was made possible by unions and by a few politicians that for one reason or another favored policies that favored working people.
the unions may only be looking out for themselves, but as if by an invisible hand, when they improve things for themselves they improve them for everybody.
trust me, you higher taxes don’t have anything to do with unions. bust the unions and your taxes will not go down. i guarantee it. but your wages will go down, and your quality of life will go down with the rest of the country.
there is no reason to make the top 1% pay all the bills. we are all in this together. i think the rich should pay their share… but i don’t think much of people who think the rich should pay for everything. sorry you won’t understand this.
Dave
some truth to this, but the answer is not to kill the unions. let them bargain for what they can get. the barely have enough power to say “can i have some more please sir” they sure as hell are not driving roughshod over the rest of us.
the unions are fighting for you. you ought to join them instead of fighting against them. thinking they are costing you money is simply wrong. you won’t like driving over bridges that were inspected by a public worker who needed to take bribes to feed his family.
i had noticed, but [unless walker comrs up with additional sets of spending programs] 2012-2013 revenues appear sufficient to avoid deficit.
Oh, I have no problem with them paying for their health care. It’s the combination of the fixed, non-negotiable percentage combined with the fact that they are all but guaranteed no wage increases greater than the CPI that makes it a virtually guaranteed ongoing reduction in take home pay. Give it a few years and see how many good teachers will come to Wisconsin or stay if they have an option.
I have the solution to the budget issues faced by localities. As CoRev correctly points out much of the local taxes go to education and uniform services. Rather than cut back on public employee’s pay and benefits, tantamount to a tax increase on a defined class of citizens, all public schools in Wisconsin should be closed and local taxes be reduced by the full amount of the savings. Then Wisconsin children can use the tax money saved by their parents to pay the tuition in a good private school. Corporate education to the rescue. No, I’m not suggesting charter schools which still rely upon public funds and which have not been shown to be dooing all that better a job. I mean real private school education for all Wisconsin children. Of course all localities could follow this same approach to responsible local budgeting. A decent private school is not likely to cost more than $30,000 to $40,000 per student. That is a bit more than the best public schools are spending, but what the heck, its private school. Of course there won’t be any tax advantage to paying private school tuition rather than local property taxes, but what the heck, its private school.
Problem solved. The same approach could be used to reduce taxes that are required to pay for uniformed services. Eric Price and his buddies can protect our neighborhoods better and we’ll be contributing to the free market.
It has long been understood that the 2010 elections were just the beginning of the struggle to reverse America’s current decline. It will take at least two or three election cycles to correct decades of bad policy choices. We aren’t staring into the fiscal abyss because of any single policy or event, but rather the cumulative effect of dozens, if not hundreds, of flawed decisions made by fickle politicians who capitalized on the fact that the American public was largely disengaged. In the end, these decisions created a vast political class who live off the fruits of others’ labors.
When a business wants to increase its future earnings, it has to find new markets and sell more of its product. For the political class its the same, only their markets and products are government services. As a result, every year, public sector unions spend tens of millions of dollars lobbying for bigger government and filling the campaign coffers of the politicians who acquiesce to their demands. In addition to bigger government, they’ve won pay packages higher than the private sector, almost 100% job security and the ability to retire in their fifties with lifetime retirement income and health benefits. All paid for by us. Unlike private sector unions, every dollar funding government employees’ pay, pension and benefits comes out of our paychecks.
This is why the current political fight in Wisconsin is critical.
http://biggovernment.com/mikeflynn/2011/02/18/winning-the-future-means-winning-in-madison/
public sector unions spend tens of millions of dollars lobbying for bigger government..( what does this have to do with anything….private companies in the last election were in the hundred millions…whats the point/)
“the ability to retire in their fifties with lifetime retirement income and health benefits.” Who in WI get a pension like that?
Who in WI get a pension like that?
Apparently coberly in OR. 🙂
Currently, teachers can retire at 57 after 30 years of experience and receive annual pension payments equal to 48% of their top pay, in addition to Social Security and other annuity benefits, WASB staff counsel Barry Forbes said. By increasing the eligibility age, the retirement system could decrease the time period over which workers could receive pension payments and reduce its liabilities.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/90768644.html
Apparently coberly did the same in OR/
Rdan asks:
Who in WI get a pension like that?
I know, it is unbelieveable. However……
Currently, teachers can retire at 57 after 30 years of experience and receive annual pension payments equal to 48% of their top pay, in addition to Social Security and other annuity benefits, WASB (Wisconsin Association of School Boards) staff counsel Barry Forbes said.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/90768644.html
And, apparently, coberly did the same thing in OR.
12.8% deficit for 2012. That’s what the WaPo had in today’s article. Juan, I bet if you check the needs of the localities which are funded by 50% of WI’s state budget, I bet you’ll find some needs not yet covered. I’ll also guess that many of those demands are related to the union contracts at issue.
Fake Doctors’ Notes Being Handed Out at Wisconsin Gov. Union RallyMadison,
As tens of thousands of public employees skipped work this week to attend protest rallies outside the Wisconsin State Capitol, many wondered if they would face any disciplinary action for unexcused absences.
On Saturday, a group of men and women in lab coats purporting to be doctors were handing out medical excuse notes, without examining the ‘patients.’
http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/02/fake-doctors-notes-being-handed-out-at-wisconsin-gov-union-rally/
So now we are also paying them to protest.
Walker should fire all the protesting teachers for cause: falsly calling in sick. Like Reagan did the air traffic controllers. Then Wi could hire all new teachers at half the cost, and get out of the pension problem to boot.
A snark answer simply makes you uninformative and boring on this one….you throw around claims and can’t name one. Pity that.
I asked coberly to suppress the urge to ad hom (you know nothing of coberly’s retirement…)
This 2008 article on Walker priorities is interesting:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/32492604.html
Oh, yeah, fire them all because it will certainly help the matress stuffing: http://www.angrybearblog.com/2011/02/why-theres-little-inflation-in-one-easy.html
Not!
Jim
I’m still on your side, but I guess I am “conservative” enough to ask why they would expect to keep doing better than inflation. If their medical costs are going to go up, they are going to have to pay them or someone else is going to have to pay them. “Someone else” is not in the mood.
Now if the average GDP is going up faster than inflation, the workers might feel they deserve a share of that. And in principle I agree with them. But again it’s a little hard to say to the computer and chemical engineers who are producing the extra “product” that they need to share their income with those who are not.
If “poor people” and I guess that includes teachers and other public workers make enough to pay for food, decent housing, medical, retirement, and modest “luxuries,” I am not sure they have a moral case.
The fact is they will feel cheated if they see themselves falling behind everyone else, and that is a fact that needs to be reckoned with.
Maybe when the public servants take bribes and all the teachers take other jobs, we will reap what we are sowing.
Coberly retired in his early fifties with no pension at all. His state pension kicked in somewhat later at the staggering rate of about 900 dollars a month. During the time he worked for the state he made about 75% of a worker with similar skills in the private sector who had far less responsibility.
The pension is deferred pay, something preferred by the kind of people who are willing to work for the state. It is brain damage and greed that gets “taxpayers” thinking that pensions are some kind of gift extorted by all powerful unions. I used to call my union a “kept union,” if you know what “kept woman” means.
btw
my pension was more than twice what it would have been because i invested my share of the pension plan in the stock market plan managed by the state. My money. I got lucky.
So yes, Sammy doesn’t know anything about my pension, but that won’t stop him from feeling morally outraged that I get anything at all.
Sammy
Where would Wisconsin, or any other locality, find a sufficient number of new teachers and why would they work for less and why would they not expect to receive a pension plan and medical coverage? Why would qualified individuals want the jobs that might become available as each of the compensation factors noted above are made unavailable to the new hires? You truly are an idiot.
Assuming that some number of new graduates could be found to take the newly available jobs, who would be available to coach, supervise and mentor those newly hired teachers? Do you suppose that new teachers simply walk into a classroom and fall right into a groove of excellence? have you ever had such a responsible position? have you ever been responsible for 30 children in a classroom setting for a six or seven hour day? Have you ever been responsible for understanding and carrying out a course of instruction? Have you ever had any experience keeping the attention of that room full of children, each with their own issues brought to class each day? You are truly an idiot with little or no understanding of the requirements of a professional teacher.
Sammy:
Why donthey need doctor’s notes? Do you need one when you are off for a day?
I apologize coberly. I don’t know enough about your situation to include you in a comment. My bad.
Close down public education and let each of our Tea Bagger and neo-conservative friends find equivalent private schooling at the cheap price they now pay for the public variety. Local taxes in the range of $10,000 to $25,000 per household would suddednly be replaced by private school tuition at approx $30,000 per child in your home.
Maybe we’d get a new trend of corporate based provate education.
What business model would best sufice? Enron, Bear Sterns, Lehman Bros. Is Skilling available to run the company? Is Country Wide or AIG to be the template in developing this new approach to affordable education?
CoRev:
Since you fanatically hate unions, I don’t really see why someone who liked Unions should like you. Please explain why your “dispassionate”… that is dogmatic fanatism…. desire to destroy all unions, ha, ha, should be liked by people who don’t want unions destroyed?
CoRev, personally, wants to destroy unions, so I can see why some people wouldn’t like him.