Author points out that UK and Ireland went austerian with significant cuts to human services two years ago, have suffered far more in human sense from a worse recession without stimulus and the rating agencies still cut Ireland’s bond ratings because their economy is in the dumps from no stimulus.
The difference between the UK and US is that the US can go austerian and take most of it from the 21% of federal outlays for military spending where the UK spends a paltry 7% on their more rational, less profit driven war machine.
Then throw in Andrew Bacevich’s article where he observes that only the US and Israel are armed like the Germans and French in 1914. The rest of the world is more humane in the use of national wealth.
You guys may have a point that some people pay too little in taxes. The Clinton’s are reportedly spending $3,000,000,000+ on a wedding.
Just putting this out there for the record so that next time you bitch about someone spending money lavishly I can point out that you aren’t so much concerned that someone is spending money lavishly, but that you are concerned a person you have prejudiced towards is spending money lavishly.
As for the Clintons, I say good for them. Bill has maximized the non-wage income of being POTUS.
Mandated minimun wage in Oregone = $8.40 per hour.
I can hire an infinite number of skilled, experienced kitchen personnel for $9/hr. This puts the iyoung, inexperienced candidates in an extremely disadvantaged position.
Would I be more likely to hire an inexperienced candidate at $5-$6 per hour? Yes.
Would I be more likely to hire an inexperienced candidate at $5-$6/hour to perform less skilled tasks while training, in addition to the current staff? Yes.
How does Clinton spending $3M of his own compare to US spending a trillion borrowed bucks on warfare, while kids go hungry, health delivery is cut and schools decay?
Leave Clinton out of it, and as a father of a daughter you bet she gets the good treatment!
What about the ancestory of a person makes it okay to give inherited wealth to some imbecile, merely because of his parents?
The estate tax is a traditional means to assure the US does not become a nobility run place with hereditary privilege. So why let the monarchist Bush estate tax cuts stand?
Not sure how accurate the tax calculators are for your area, but the point is, there was not much incentive to find work in your area if you are a minimum wage worker.
“What about the ancestory of a person makes it okay to give inherited wealth to some imbecile, merely because of his parents?”
It’s about incentive and freedom…quit being jealous.
If you think I’m going to keep building Bridges and Sky-Scrapers if I don’t have anything to pass on to my childern….you have another thing coming, I’ll start sucking off the government Teet just like you.
The flip side of that is, one more person fiancially secure is one more open spot in the workforce. If you have a problem with the elites controlling the government, then put together policy that controlls that, and leave the families alone that have honestly worked very hard to secure a future for themselves and thier families.
Found elsewhere and copied here, posted because it’s an open thread:
The Voter’s Vow
I am sick of the American Politician. I will not vote for candidates who…
1. Take campaign money from large corporations. 2. Make empty promises to voters just to get their votes. 3 Run slimy attack ads on their fellow candidates. 4. Pander to special interests. 5. Give away taxpayer money to banks and corporations that deserve to fail. 6. Enact laws that primarily serve the wealthy elite. 7. Waste money on wars we don’t need to fight. 8. Won’t secure our borders. 9. Do nothing while America’s standard of living continues to erode. 10. Obstruct needed legislation for the sake of political power.
Needless to say, I think it would be pretty difficult to find any candidate that fits this criteria.
How does getting paid $50M he is contractually owed compare to US spending a trillion borrowed bucks on warfare, while kids go hungry, health delivery is cut and schools decay?
My first comment was obviously over your head. I’m trying to be more blunt so you understand the hypocrisy of the left that I am pointing out.
This is stupidity beyond belief, but with a title like that who could vote against it? No need to read the bill or reason what good it does. We have to pass it to see how it works.
Jimi: The bears would sooner pass legistlation that drags the top 90% down to the living standards of the bottom 10%. We would then all be equal, equally poor.
i maky typos too, so i figured the 3 billion you wrote for Clinton’s wedding was a typo. but now i think you just have a bone you want to chew on. please take it out of the living room.
Not much reasoning going on there coberly. Just the typical ad hom. Particularly funny since I have never even smoked pot before. Only drugs you can get at CVS/Walgreens/etc.
I wonder what Obama’s life would have been like if they had saved him from dangerous drugs.
“i think you just have a bone you want to chew on. “
Thanks for the quote that applies to everything Linda posts on here. And yes I did add a few too many 0’s, but the point still stands that you have no problem with Clinton spending more money on a wedding than some people make in a lifetime.
Just to point out that the calculator at mgcpa does not include the standard deduction or the personal exemption. Which assuming single wages comes out to the first 9200 not being taxed. Then the next 8300 is taxed at 10% so our person would only pay 830 in federal tax. I have a feeling the same applies to Oregon State taxes, that it would not be 9% off the top. So you start with about 7% on the gross for Ss and Medicare, and about 5% for federal taxes (average rate), and say 5% for oregon taxes totaling about 17% This then comes to about 283 per week. (The calculator starts one out at a 25% federal rate which would apply above 43k a year or 830 or so a week).
Went and looked at the oregon forms and the tax is about $23/week for the state tax. So about 7% making the total 19% or 273 per week. Note of course that beyond some point unemployment is also taxable, so some part of the 10k per year unemployment would pay state taxes and a very minimial federal tax. But it looks like working (withing the window where benefits are paid is about 3500 more per year.
but then you go on to sound like someone who has been smoking too much dope. don’t object to the ad homs… actually these are not exactly ad homs, which are arguments in the form of “your argument is invalid because you beat your wife”… these are just friendly insults, which my friends and I exchange all the time. in your case a bit less friendly because i think your “ideas” are dangerous. and that is especially hard for me, because i agree with part of your idea enough to want to make sense out of it, but by the time you are done with it there is nothing left but to put it out with the rest of the trash.
given that as near as I can tell your favorite party is working extremely hard to make washington fail, and defiinitely to tell the people it is failing, whether it is or not, i think i would worry that in order to prevent the revolution you are looking for, the people who would like to save the country might find a way to, say, kill the filibuster and enforce a sedition act.
How does the $5 wage you think your inexperienced worker is worth impact his ability to buy a meal at your restaurant? Or is yours the kind of place the help shouldn’t presume they would be welcome to patronize?
Aren’t wage levels supposed to provide not just survival level sustenance but also be sufficient to generate aggregate demand?
If aggregate demand isn’t sufficient to generate full employment how does abandonment of wage standards help that problem exactly? In the mythical fantasy land of full employment at a few dollars a day, how does that translate into discretionary income? This is the problem China appears to be wrestling with.
Steinbeck explained this scenario fairly well in his classic The Grapes of Wrath almost 75 years ago.
And if the wages you pay your employees has no role whatsoever in driving demand for services and products why isn’t that a problem for you, mr. biznessman?
Coberly: If you removed every senseless word you post on this site there would be nothing left. I heard a conspiracy theorist argue they cloned a neanderthal a few decades back. I think you are living proof he was reporting the truth.
Check this link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-demands-of-the-defici_b_665076.html
Author points out that UK and Ireland went austerian with significant cuts to human services two years ago, have suffered far more in human sense from a worse recession without stimulus and the rating agencies still cut Ireland’s bond ratings because their economy is in the dumps from no stimulus.
The difference between the UK and US is that the US can go austerian and take most of it from the 21% of federal outlays for military spending where the UK spends a paltry 7% on their more rational, less profit driven war machine.
Then throw in Andrew Bacevich’s article where he observes that only the US and Israel are armed like the Germans and French in 1914. The rest of the world is more humane in the use of national wealth.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-bacevich/the-end-of-military-histo_b_663548.html
A friend of mine who happens to be a libertarian put me on to Member of Congress Paul Ryan. New ideas to fix the down turn.
Here is a story in salon: http://www.salon.com/news/us_economy/index.html?story=/tech/htww/2010/07/30/paul_ryan_opposite_day
What do you all think?
You guys may have a point that some people pay too little in taxes. The Clinton’s are reportedly spending $3,000,000,000+ on a wedding.
Just putting this out there for the record so that next time you bitch about someone spending money lavishly I can point out that you aren’t so much concerned that someone is spending money lavishly, but that you are concerned a person you have prejudiced towards is spending money lavishly.
As for the Clintons, I say good for them. Bill has maximized the non-wage income of being POTUS.
Minimum wage law in action.
Mandated minimun wage in Oregone = $8.40 per hour.
I can hire an infinite number of skilled, experienced kitchen personnel for $9/hr. This puts the iyoung, inexperienced candidates in an extremely disadvantaged position.
Would I be more likely to hire an inexperienced candidate at $5-$6 per hour? Yes.
Would I be more likely to hire an inexperienced candidate at $5-$6/hour to perform less skilled tasks while training, in addition to the current staff? Yes.
Jay,
How does Clinton spending $3M of his own compare to US spending a trillion borrowed bucks on warfare, while kids go hungry, health delivery is cut and schools decay?
Leave Clinton out of it, and as a father of a daughter you bet she gets the good treatment!
Sammy,
Does any unskilled laborer have any rights to access the fruits of society, technology and resources?
And what about some ignorant rich kid who was born on third base? Any better than an ignorant laborer?
Do you own a business?
How do you justify paying 5 bucks an hour when the person gets medicaid because you are too cheap to pay for a decent living?
Just a direct answer please?
What do you think I am subsidizing your worker? Or should tht worker just die?
Since this is open thread……………………
A little Thomas Paine.
What about the ancestory of a person makes it okay to give inherited wealth to some imbecile, merely because of his parents?
The estate tax is a traditional means to assure the US does not become a nobility run place with hereditary privilege. So why let the monarchist Bush estate tax cuts stand?
Does the US need Saudi princes?
ilsm,
Just a direct answer please?
That’s pretty hard when your comment is all over the board.
It’s about productivity. A person who just takes orders, cleans, etc. is just not worth $8.40 an hour to me. So I don’t hire them.
Is that person worth $5/hour. Very possibly. And therefore I might hire them. Give them the choice of working for $5/hr or being unemployed.
Sammy,
Typically I have found that you get what you pay for.
If you payed a person making $8.40/hr. = $336 per week (Gross)
If you payed a person making $8.40/hr. = $216 per week (Net)
http://www.mgcpa.com/calculators/payroll/aftertax.php
Unemployment benifits in Oregon for a person making $8.40/hr. = $201 per week
http://findit.emp.state.or.us/ocs/estimator/
Not sure how accurate the tax calculators are for your area, but the point is, there was not much incentive to find work in your area if you are a minimum wage worker.
Ilsm,
“What about the ancestory of a person makes it okay to give inherited wealth to some imbecile, merely because of his parents?”
It’s about incentive and freedom…quit being jealous.
If you think I’m going to keep building Bridges and Sky-Scrapers if I don’t have anything to pass on to my childern….you have another thing coming, I’ll start sucking off the government Teet just like you.
The flip side of that is, one more person fiancially secure is one more open spot in the workforce. If you have a problem with the elites controlling the government, then put together policy that controlls that, and leave the families alone that have honestly worked very hard to secure a future for themselves and thier families.
The estate tax touches few of those in the sense you are implying Jimi.
Found elsewhere and copied here, posted because it’s an open thread:
The Voter’s Vow
I am sick of the American Politician. I will not vote for candidates who…
1. Take campaign money from large corporations.
2. Make empty promises to voters just to get their votes.
3 Run slimy attack ads on their fellow candidates.
4. Pander to special interests.
5. Give away taxpayer money to banks and corporations that deserve to fail.
6. Enact laws that primarily serve the wealthy elite.
7. Waste money on wars we don’t need to fight.
8. Won’t secure our borders.
9. Do nothing while America’s standard of living continues to erode.
10. Obstruct needed legislation for the sake of political power.
Needless to say, I think it would be pretty difficult to find any candidate that fits this criteria.
Ryan’s plans have serious flaws and some of the numbers only work because Ryan’s staff had the CBO score it with sets of unrealistic rules.
How does getting paid $50M he is contractually owed compare to US spending a trillion borrowed bucks on warfare, while kids go hungry, health delivery is cut and schools decay?
My first comment was obviously over your head. I’m trying to be more blunt so you understand the hypocrisy of the left that I am pointing out.
Can we add #11 to that list? Voted against moronic legislation like the “Saving Kids From Dangerous Drugs Act”.
http://reason.com/blog/2010/07/30/guess-who-opposed-saving-kids
This is stupidity beyond belief, but with a title like that who could vote against it? No need to read the bill or reason what good it does. We have to pass it to see how it works.
Jimi: The bears would sooner pass legistlation that drags the top 90% down to the living standards of the bottom 10%. We would then all be equal, equally poor.
Jay
i maky typos too, so i figured the 3 billion you wrote for Clinton’s wedding was a typo. but now i think you just have a bone you want to chew on. please take it out of the living room.
Sammy
sorry to say that i think greed distorts your thinking. if you can’t make money paying a decent wage your business is no damn good.
jimi and jay
your tears would be more convicing if you understood there was a whole world between the two poles of your “analysis.”
jay
i wonder what your life would have been like if they had saved you from dangerous drugs.
Not much reasoning going on there coberly. Just the typical ad hom. Particularly funny since I have never even smoked pot before. Only drugs you can get at CVS/Walgreens/etc.
I wonder what Obama’s life would have been like if they had saved him from dangerous drugs.
“i think you just have a bone you want to chew on. “
Thanks for the quote that applies to everything Linda posts on here. And yes I did add a few too many 0’s, but the point still stands that you have no problem with Clinton spending more money on a wedding than some people make in a lifetime.
Maybe something good will happen this fall…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100731/ap_on_go_co/us_waters_ethics
However, there are too many more that need to go.
Dumb-o-crats couldn’t see this coming…
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703700904575391153536536966.html
“We have to pass this bill so you can find out what is in it.”
Because actually reading the thing is not in the job description of senator/congress critter.
Just to point out that the calculator at mgcpa does not include the standard deduction or the personal exemption. Which assuming single wages comes out to the first 9200 not being taxed. Then the next 8300 is taxed at 10% so our person would only pay 830 in federal tax. I have a feeling the same applies to Oregon State taxes, that it would not be 9% off the top.
So you start with about 7% on the gross for Ss and Medicare, and about 5% for federal taxes (average rate), and say 5% for oregon taxes totaling about 17% This then comes to about 283 per week. (The calculator starts one out at a 25% federal rate which would apply above 43k a year or 830 or so a week).
Went and looked at the oregon forms and the tax is about $23/week for the state tax. So about 7% making the total 19% or 273 per week. Note of course that beyond some point unemployment is also taxable, so some part of the 10k per year unemployment would pay state taxes and a very minimial federal tax. But it looks like working (withing the window where benefits are paid is about 3500 more per year.
Nearly a year ago, I mentioned I was seeing the “R” (no not Republican) word more frequently in the right side of the blogosphere. It’s now creeping into the MSM: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/542171/201007301830/Will-Washingtons-Failures-Lead-To-Second-American-Revolution-.aspx
Now you know for what the “R” stands!
You can see other commentary at Dan’s favorite site, here: http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/304143.php
jay
i would have thought that your ideology would have had no problem with the clintons spending money. aren’t you all for the rich trickling down?
jay
but then you go on to sound like someone who has been smoking too much dope. don’t object to the ad homs… actually these are not exactly ad homs, which are arguments in the form of “your argument is invalid because you beat your wife”… these are just friendly insults, which my friends and I exchange all the time. in your case a bit less friendly because i think your “ideas” are dangerous. and that is especially hard for me, because i agree with part of your idea enough to want to make sense out of it, but by the time you are done with it there is nothing left but to put it out with the rest of the trash.
CoRev
given that as near as I can tell your favorite party is working extremely hard to make washington fail, and defiinitely to tell the people it is failing, whether it is or not, i think i would worry that in order to prevent the revolution you are looking for, the people who would like to save the country might find a way to, say, kill the filibuster and enforce a sedition act.
Saving the Country Club != Saving the Country
It may take awhile to get that sorted out for a significant part of the electorate.
How does the $5 wage you think your inexperienced worker is worth impact his ability to buy a meal at your restaurant? Or is yours the kind of place the help shouldn’t presume they would be welcome to patronize?
Aren’t wage levels supposed to provide not just survival level sustenance but also be sufficient to generate aggregate demand?
If aggregate demand isn’t sufficient to generate full employment how does abandonment of wage standards help that problem exactly? In the mythical fantasy land of full employment at a few dollars a day, how does that translate into discretionary income? This is the problem China appears to be wrestling with.
Steinbeck explained this scenario fairly well in his classic The Grapes of Wrath almost 75 years ago.
And if the wages you pay your employees has no role whatsoever in driving demand for services and products why isn’t that a problem for you, mr. biznessman?
Coberly: If you removed every senseless word you post on this site there would be nothing left. I heard a conspiracy theorist argue they cloned a neanderthal a few decades back. I think you are living proof he was reporting the truth.