CountryWide goes Kafka – a First Person Narrative
by Mike KImel
Cross-posted at the Presimetrics blog.
CountryWide goes Kafka – a First Person Narrative
This post is going to be a bit different, at least for me. Generally I like to write things that are more data oriented, and that involve some pictures and figures. But this is a little story that happened to my wife and me, only a few weeks back, and I think it provides a bit of an illustration about how the economy works, or doesn’t, in these post-Housing Bubble days. Its an absurd story, it makes no sense whatsoever, it cannot possibly happen in a civilized country, much less one that calls itself capitalist, but every word is true. So here goes…
My wife, deep into her third trimester of pregnancy, went out to run some errands with my mother and a family friend. It was pouring, and when they got back to the house, they saw a piece of paper stapled to a little tree at the end of our driveway. It was a notice from the Sheriff’s Department that our house was going to be auctioned off on October 1st.
Now, obviously it had to be a bad joke. After all:
1. We had only bought the house the previous year and were about two months ahead on our mortgage.
2. The plaintiff was CountryWide, which is not the company with which have a mortgage.
3. The name of the defendant from whom the home was to be foreclosed was not the legal owner of the house – that is to say, my wife or I. In fact, the name of the defendant was similar to the name of the previous owner of the home, but the spelling was definitely off.
4. From what we heard of Sheriff’s auctions, notices tend to be left on the door. Not stapled to a tiny little tree in the pouring rain.
But when my wife checked the Sheriff’s site on-line, it turns out that, indeed, our home was slated to be auctioned off on October 1st. Multiple calls to the Sheriff’s office were not returned. As to CountryWide – who exactly do you call at CountryWide? There’s no “Press 4 if you have no relationship with CountryWide but we’re trying to seize your house anyway.” Ironically, if we did have a delinquent CountryWide mortgage, getting somewhere with them might have possible as any of their call center representatives would have been able to handle taking a payment. But the situation we were in, that they put us in, isn’t one of the options that their call center seems equipped to sort out.
When it started to become obvious that a) this was deadly serious and b) there was a whole machine moving inexorably forward, my wife got nervous. She didn’t sleep at all that first night, and because she didn’t sleep, neither did I. And every roadblock we hit made us more exasperated at what was already a difficult time.
After a couple of days of trying the obvious remedies, we contacted our title company and called our attorney. And it took a while, but the upshot was that after a few weeks, we managed to stop the proceedings. CountryWide uses an external law firm to deal with the Sheriff’s office, and we managed to convince them that the process should be halted. Doing so meant showing we had the title and that we are the owners of record as far as the County is concerned. Additionally, thanks to the previous owner who helped us out here, we were able to show that CountryWide received a wire transfer when the previous owner sold us the house. Thus, we proved to CountryWide’s external legal firm that they had followed unlawful orders by putting in the request to have our home foreclosed. They in turn managed to get their contacts at CountryWide to give them the OK to contact the Sheriff’s department to put a halt to the process.
Though we’re no longer in danger of losing our home (as far as we know), I’m kind of upset right now at two parties. The first is CountryWide, for all the obvious reasons. But I also have a problem with the Sheriff’s department because from where I’m standing, it seems like its procedures are set up in such a way as to validate CountryWide’s mistakes. Let’s start with the note pinned to a tree in the pouring rain. What if we were traveling or the wind was just a little stronger? Would the note have been there when we got back? Would we even have known about the auction until after it happened?
Second, it appears that that the Sheriff’s department auctions off homes simply on the word of CountryWide or its outside attorney. A check of the County Tax Assessor’s Office would have told them there was a problem with CountryWide’s request, namely that the person they wanted to seize the home from doesn’t own it or have any rights to it whatsoever. (Actually, I also wonder why the outside attorney didn’t check any of this either.) And it isn’t as if CountryWide and/or the Sheriff checked but were working off outdated information; if the previous owner was truly the intended defendant, her name wasn’t even spelled right in the complaint which also should have raised some eyebrows. Worse, as per the above-mentioned wire transfer, CountryWide actually wasn’t owed anything at all by anyone.
In short, CountryWide was trying to collect on a debt that didn’t exist, supposedly owed by a person who they had wrongly identified, by seizing property owned by other people. And yet the Sheriff’s Department acted on their claim, and refused to give us, the party affected by that series of errors, so much as a return phone call.
The only conclusion I can reach from this is that there are no safeguards at all built into the system. None. After all, it would have taken only a trivial amount of due diligence by any of the parties (CountryWide, their outside attorneys, or the Sheriff’s office) to derail this crazy train before it started. However, I assume CountryWide would be against such checks, as they cost money. But guess what? This whole process has cost my wife and me money, time, frustration and emotional distress. It would make more sense to hit up CountryWide for an extra few bucks every time they ask the Sheriff to auction off a house than it does to force the victims of CountryWide’s errors to pay for the company’s mistakes. Fortunately, we could afford an attorney, and despite the whole pinning-a-note-to-a-straggly-tree-in-the-pouring-rain thing, we also had the time to mount a defense.
That doesn’t mean when things settle down a bit over here we aren’t going after CountryWide to make us whole. And my wife and I intend to have some communication with the Sheriff’s department to do what we can to make them tighten up procedures to prevent this kind of nonsense from happening to other people.
But, in the end, one definite legacy of this whole affair is that from here on out, every four to six months I plan to check the upcoming foreclosure auctions to make sure my house isn’t on the list. Which leaves just one more thing to comment on, and since I like to have illustrations in my posts, let me end with a picture. The resolution isn’t particular good – it was taken on my phone – but it’s my favorite one so far:
(Rdan…Heather and Alex. Alex is a recent and new addition to the Kimel household.
First thing Monday, call a lawyer. First. Thing. Do not hesitate.
If you haven’t done so already, please write a letter of what happened here to your congresscritter. Assuming s/he has even half of a brain or an ounce of care for the constituents, this is the kind of thing that s/he needs to know about.
I didn’t read far enough, ya took careof the lawyer business.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! A couple of sweethearts. Be certain to treat them as the royalty they are.
Congrats, Mike! You are just starting to experience how much your life just changed. In a good way!
Counrtywide long standing practice of avoiding due diligence in issuing their mortgages and reinsuring their mortgages is one of the reasons we are in this mess.
The appaernt willingness to issue proceedings against the wrong parties demonstrates that nothing has chenged with CW.
However, the service by pinning of a legal notice to a tree in the rain is a new twist on “sewer service” and represents a new low. It may be interesting to see the affidavit of service that was filed (assuming one was).
I suspect that you will not find “served by attaching to a shrub in the subject property”.
Can you share the name of Countrywide’s “lawyers”?
Glad the issue appears to have been satrisfactorily resloved , for now, anyway.
Congratulations on the newaddition to the family.member
cactus-Congrats!
STR–Boy, I can’t believe this. In my former trade, standards for due process are well established through statutute and court cases. You can’t take so much as one cent off a payment due without written notice delivered by first class mail, followed up on with certified mail, an appeals period, right to folder review and/or in person conference, and so on. You can appeal overpayments, for example, to the Supreme Court.
This isn’t a matter of reducing an SSI check. This is taking someone’s HOUSE, for beans’ sakes, and all you gots to do is staple a piece of paper to a damn tree to do this? And, this country is supposed to value property rights? Really? Cain’t tell it by this mess!
But, congratulations on the new family member! I join everyone here in wishing you all well. Nancy Ortiz
First, and most important, CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Secondly, Mike, do everyone a favor and spread this story far and wide. Is the sherrif an elected official where you are? Try to embarrass the department into changing their procedures if an election is coming up. As someone mentioned earlier, write your congressman. Write the head of the commerce committee. Let every rep and senator associated with regulating the banking system know of this. In your copious free time that lovely baby is leaving you, of course.
Contact YOUR Mortgage company. They have a stake in this after all. They have lawyers and resources that you do not. There should be Title insurance.
Warning, citizen. Comply and conform. You will be assimilated.
Congrats on the new addition to the family! Enjoy YOUR home.
Mike
much better graphics than your usual posts.
unfortunately what you have encountered IS the way the world works. suprised you haven’t noticed it before.
a modest suggestion. get to know the sheriff. make him your friend, not your enemy.
if you can find a lawyer to go after countrywide on spec, go for it. otherwise you may have to do what us poor folk do. eat it and go on with your life.
if there is a way to find out if a lot of this is going on where you live, you might have a hope of changing things. but my guess is that the local newspaper won’t be any help.
While not as extreme, I have a similar Kafka-esque experience with Countrywide/BAC.
Countrywide purchased my mortgage in 2004. I’ve never been late and have pre-paid quite a bit of principal. Given how low interest rates have come, it now makes sense to refinance into a 10-year fixed, so I contact BAC.
In their payoff statement for the loan there is a mysterious line for almost $4,000 in fees due. BAC claims that Countrywide was owed this money from the previous lender, but has been unable to collect. I’ve sent BAC my final HUD-1 and loan transaction statements and BAC acknowledges that this is not money I’ve received or benefitted from, but says it shows up on their system as a “corporate advance on the mortgage” and while they can’t bill me the $4k on my monthly mortgage statement, they need to balance the books during any refinance before the loan is closed.
BAC’s solution is that I need to contact the title company or previous lender and have one of them send me or BAC the money. When I asked why I need to do this rather than BAC, they responded that the title company can’t talk to the lender and that the previous lender wasn’t being responsive. Of course, when I called the title company and previous lender neither had any idea what BAC was talking about, and the title company rightly pointed out that their invovlement with the loan ended before Countrywide purchased the loan.
So I can either stay in my 5.25% mortgage with BAC (paying them an above market interest rate), or if I refinance then BAC manages to capture the majority of savings I would get by taking an additional, unsubstantiated $4k at loan payoff.
Obviously I’m massively upset at BAC/Countrywide. But it’s also annoying that, according to my loan broker, during the refinance process the title company will just respond to whatever payoff demand letter BAC provides them. On would think that during escrow there would be an opportunitity to provide documentation to dispute the payoff amount as inaccurate.
Why not post a short summary and a link at Calculated Risk? There were discussions there in the past about the problems that were going to arise from hazy ownership of mortgage notes. I expect that you’ll get some responses — a few of which will be thoughtful or insightful.
And congratulations on getting the situation resolved. You might ask your attorney if some sort of court order restraining the Sheriff from acting against your house on further Countrywide complaints is possible and appropriate.
it gives me great pleasure to be able to agree with CoRev in this.
Robert
assuming you don’t have some evil pre payment penalty..
pay off the damn mortgage as quickly as possible. i paid mine in three years and i am not a rich person.
been living off the interest ever since.
No prepayment penalty and I could definately pay the mortgage off a bit quicker at 4.25% than at the current 5.25%, but that would require either paying BAC/Countrywide the bogus $4k “corporate advance” or paying a lawyer.
Hi, Mike.
I can relate, although nothing that bad happened to me. I used to live in NM, where title is a mess, and had a title related incident every 3-4 years.
As for CountryWide and the sheriff and due diligence, welcome to the system. The system has always been geared to the creditors, with the (alleged) borrowers bearing the burden of proof, at least until you actually get to court. CountryWide takes advantage of that fact by not exercising its diligence. And the sheriff’s office is probably underfunded, even for what they actually manage to do.
Anyway, glad that you got things straightened out. 🙂
Switft’s Ghost,
The posting of the note was done not by CW’s attorneys, but by the Sheriff’s department. Hence my displeasure at them. CW’s outside attorneys were the only party which provided any response whatsoever. If it weren’t for our title company & attorney being able to communicate with them, I suspect we would have had to have sought a Court Order to put a halt to the whole mess.
Nancy – the staple is still attached to the tree! Part of me isn’t ready to pull it out in case I need to provide evidence of what happened.
bakho,
There was (is) title insurance. Thus, the title company put a lot of effort into this. Our attorney was pretty good about letting them bird-dog ahead.
coberly,
I am giving some thought as to how to approach the Sheriff to get change made. Ideally it would be amicable, and would not require imposing any costs on the County. I just would like some assurance that notices will either be delivered or pinned to a door.
Robert,
My wife set us up on automatic deposit for the mortgage, but she pays more per month than the amount due. But, she has discovered that if she doesn’t call and insist that any overpayment go to principal, it is somehow applied to interest. She’s asked them several times what it could possibly mean to reduce the interest balance on a payment that is several months ahead, given that the amount of the interest due depends on how much principal is left, and they have no way to know how much principal will be left several months from now.
All I can conclude is that this is another tool to snag the unsuspecting. They seem to have many of them.
Just out of curiosity who did countrywide think owned the property? Is it possible there was a fraud involved in that someone else took a mortgage out on the property. It would be interesting to do a search on the county records to see who the county thinks has mortgages on the property. (I suspect the title insurance company did that) The certified mail notices are mailed to the owner and if you are not listed as the owner then you would not get them. I wish states would allow one to put a fraud statement on the property, requiring you to file a statement directly with the county with an independent notary allowing a mortgage to be registered or at least notifying of one. If no one checked the county records then you should go to the county commission and complain to them.
Sheriffs departments who serve notices (in MA and probably Ohio) are usually amenable. Go in personally and talk to a secretary, the one who writes up notices. You are a landlord as well…in MA it costs $40 to have a notice served. They are very helpful, in that this is their business as well. Serving notices usually does not involve THE Sheriff, just constables.
Chat and ask questions “Has this ever happened ie Countrywide” and you might get ‘sure, a dozen notices in the last month’ etc. or ‘yeah, a lot of people have come in”. MA law is quite specific on how to serve a notice, and does not include trees or bushes.
The district housing court would also have information if there are such in Ohio. They specialize in housing and their word is final over any regular district court in MA.
My mortgage company has a separate line on every statement for principal only deposits in addition to the regular payment.
That is true, but Mike IS a landlord, and local. He could go in for advice on procedure etc. and ask an Oh by the way question. Secretary staff coorinate everything, part timers serve notices usually.
Lyle,
From what I can tell, CountryWide thought the previous owner still owned the property. That of course required CountryWide to get the previous owner’s name wron g(which seems difficult to do given that the previous owner had a mortgage through them for many years and presumably somewhere along the way that had required correct documentation) and to somehow be unaware that they had been paid upon the sale of the house.
Its the fact that any narrative is so preposterous that led us to contact our attorney rather than simply let the title company & title insurance take care of it. After all, by the end of the first day, fraud seemed to make a lot more sense than any combination of errors that could possibly have led to where we were. But as of right now, our attorney is reasonably confident that everything is kosher.
As to the county… I can tell you with certainty that the County Tax Commissioner lists my wife and me as the owners of record. Its on their website, and they send us a bill periodically.
As best as the title company and our attorney can tell, there are no liens or mortgages on this property except the one mortgage in my name and my wife’s name. Given its been a year since the property changed hands, presumably anything that might have slipped through the cracks would have surfaced by now. Nothing has.
Like I said in the post, it seems CountryWide decided to collect on a debt that no longer existed by going after a party whose name they got wrong and by seizing property that had been sold… and it was during that sale that the previous owner’s mortgage was settled with CountryWide, as per standard operating procedure. Our attorney found no evidence of fraud anywhere there, and CountryWide’s outside law firm also feels everything happened legitimately.
As I said, the story is preposterous and cannot be told in any logical way because there’s no logic there.
Rdan,
We’re still crawling out from under a pile of “to do” but I do eventually plan to wander over to the Sheriff’s department one day in person and have a chat.
Thanks for the info, because it clears up the possiblity of fraud which on first reading I realized could be the case. So did countrywide record the end of the old mortgage? In general when a mortgage is paid off the company is supposed to record the end of the mortgage (it may take several months but I did get the note back recorded as paid off)
dan
the three pit bulls on mikes front porch might have had something to do with it.
mike, dan
just a chump here, but unless there is some clause to the contract, anything you pay is applied to the interest first and then the principle without any need to specify.
Here is a different kind of finance industry sea story……….
Read and the terms and conditions in the 13 pages of small print in an auto lease!
ilsm’s other ilsm buddy maybe a few years older, my automobile enthusiast pal went through a late life crisis and leased a Black Mustang II, with red leather……..
NICE car, nice muffler sounds and nice acceleration.
We live in a place which snows occur and the Mustang was not driven in winter.
So 8 months into lease year 3 buddy decides to turn in the macho machine early. He is good guy and pays lease through end.
About 18 months later, lease company sends a bill for $2000. Seems there was a clause which stated “if you send back the car early, and if Bush II has indeed ruined the economy, and lease company has to sell black mustang with red leather at auction for less than the close out price. Lease holder owes the difference.”
Now whooodanode the economy would collapse when my pal sent the mustang back early??????
Here is another finance industry sea story…………………
I traded a number of real properties due to military moves while married to the first Mrs. ilsm.
Being a trusting fellow and having no reimbursement for closing costs on the first couple I “saved” money and did not get “title insurance”.
So one Christmas I was hometown talking to my Dutch Uncle, who was in insurance. The topic of title insurance came up.
He quickly informed me I was a dummy!!!
And thence forth I bought title insurance for each buy.
Another finance sea story, just recently little lady next door to son’s in-laws needed to move to assisted living and sell the house.
Deal hinged on getting an old lien off her deed. The debt was paid, but owners had not served notice to county records to clear the lien. It was quite a long time ago, and finding the closed out promisory note was difficult.
Third finacial sea story of this second and last post………..
I had a mortgage on a house I sold down south nearly 30 years ago. It was my VA loan.
So, about 20 years after I sold the house I decided to buy another place and use my VA authorization. The original loan was at Volcker level interest rates and I was sure it had been refinanced during one of a Reagan loving Fed’s interest reductions (to make the tax cuts look like they were working). The mortgage co showed the loan cleared, but the VA goes to the county and demands the mortgage have the loan expunged. Turns out the buyers never went to have my VA loan taken off the mortgage, and I could not get a VA loan and they likely will have to clear the mortgage to sell. Which made me worry when I started reading Mike’s saga.
Hope it all turns out well.
Beautiful Baby!! Best Wishes!!
ilsm
Lyle,
I do not know. Perhaps some time this week my wife can contact the previous homeowner again to find out. We’re just leery of being too much of a pain in the butt to her as she’s been tremendously helpful.
It is in the contract.
I think I’d be totaling everything up, and take it to small claims court. Chances are, they’ll never notice that they got served and won’t show up, and even if they do, I don’t think you’ll have any problems winning some money from them.
well,
after he shoots the idiot who signed that contract, he needs to shoot the @#$%$#@! who wrote it.
Actually it should be in the courthouse (county) records, as the deed of trust or mortgage needs to be recorded when canceled. Its what happened at the courthouse that matters. More out of curisoity to see where the sloppyness in proceedure happened. (Given the overall sloppyness of the mortgage system re MERS documented elsewhere, its a system where accuracy was less important than volume.
Kafka-esque no doubt! And your home too. Unconscionable. I have “fictional debt” entaglement story of my own, but won’t polute this thread with that evil-twin of a tale.
I will say that the story related here, the variety of common details shared in comments and my own battle – combined – prompted thoughts about the present state of public authority defending private corporate interests firstly and forcefully. The situation I’m referring to is that of BP’s assaut on the Gulf of Mexico and connected communities.
Fitting all too neatly into the same narrative model, all manner of citizen from across the Gulf coast report that the local authorities as well as those on every step of the ladder of high authorities right up to various Federal agencies have aggressively protected and defended BP and BP operations against – what? Citizens! Citizens who, regardless of their greivence or vocation, are no longer subject to US/English Common Law principles, but to those of Napoleon – the famously upside down, inverse or Kafka-esque guilt before innocence.
I do not mean to diminish the importance or depth of distress that Mike rdan or any other has suffered. In fact, I hope to vindicate the feelings of anger and injustice of all here – and elsewhere – by connecting these common, human reactions to what is seemingly a common, inhuman policy and power preference adopted by persons who are our employees and as public servants are charged with the protecting public’s interest first and foremost.
I’ll close with 2 last comments that I hope bring clarity to my remarks. First, I do not believe and am not suggesting that there is an active process of collusion that crosses all of the implicit and explicit bounderies of geography, politics, industry and many more informing what appears to be a common sympathy and posture adopted by law enforcement and other officials. I will say, lastly, that I am increasingly convinced that the so-called “conspiracy of common interests” is at work and that the anecdotes shared here reflect anecdotes emerging from elsewhere that may well indicate a trend or direction. To this final point I’ll add that the presence or absence of a “trend” or less passive convergence is emerging, it will be crucial to better understand the work of experimental psychologists at Cornell and elsewhere. These researchers are studying behaviors that dispose “us” to be more sympathetic to those of higher status and also dispose us to compete harder/more aggressively against opponents we suspect are weaker. In the end, an individual (or couple) faces daunting challenges when confronting power that enjoys massive economies of scale.
I’m glad to read that you prevailed – in your battle for your home and in expanding your family’s number and love.
The mustang was cool!!!
I guess title insurance is like other kinds of insurance: The chances that you’ll ever need it are minimal, but when you need it, you NEED it.
I would have first called the sheriff’s office to report a theft in progress, then let them get to the bottom of it.
Mike,
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!
Just saw the post! Outstanding!!! I’m very happy that you have a nice bouncing baby boy!!!
Now tell me when you can change the baby, deliver to mother for 2 am feeding, return baby at 2:40 am, sooth it to sleep, and never wake up!!! You life will never be the same – but it was well worth it!
Babies are always great!
This kind of stuff scares the hell out of me. I’m glad it turned out all right for you in the end. I wonder if you’ve thought about contacting your local paper and television stations? Local media do a good job on these kinds of things, and I believe they’re one of the best ways to bring pressure on badly behaving companies and government agencies. Of course, you’re out of the woods now, but if you were able to contribute to a story, it might do some good for the next guy, and some harm to the jerks at Countrywide who were trying to steal your house.
I wonder whether the wrong name is a coincidence or a cause?
Bill figured out a way when contacted. Who coodanode?
Nice. Exactly. Let them fuddle through the Kafkaesque paperwork nightmare in which they played a willing patricipant.
Dude,
Years ago we received a class settlement payment from Chase out of the blue because they failed to record that our loan had been paid off with the county in a timely manner. I think they were only a few days or weeks late but we received a few hundred dollars (not sure why we got paid, since we didn’t suffer any loss as a result of their negligence). So if CW failed to record the loan payoff by the previous owner of your house with the county they are most likely liable – if they did it often to lots of people they may own big bucks…….
Very cute Jr Dude + Mom – they look happy and healthy……..
Mike,
Where is the political debate?
We need a post on propety rights…who is attacking them…what are the various pieces of legislation?
Get on it!
But first make sure your wife and child are cozy….THEN GET ON IT!
Countrywide has managed to surpass OCWEN as the absolute worst at keeping track of payments. I actually didn’t think it was possibe.
Any member of the Chapter 13 bar, and every bankruptcy judge in the country, can tell you many stories of banks alleging missed mortgage payments and the Debtor’s showing up with cancelled checks for every payment. It happens regularly.
Sheriff is an elected postion in Ohio.
Congratulations, Mike. Figure 1 looks great.
Sounds like you’re handling the situation well. Keep at ’em.
The document noting the payoff of the old mortgage should be filed with the county by the bank that releases the mortgage, and a copy of that filing provided to the former owner. That’s what proves that the former owner’s mortgage holder doesn’t have a right to go after the property.
That picture is a beautiful ending to this story!
Ah… I guess I better look into this. That said, presumably the wire transfer to them covers that base.
ckb,
That’s our intention. It may take a month or so to crawl out from our to do list and for that to make it to the top of the pile. Right now I’m frantically getting stuff for the publishers of my book when I have any spare time at all. But my wife is the bulldog type on stuff like this, so she’ll be jumping on it as soon as she recovers and I’ll try to help her out. She’s also brought the newspaper’s attention to a few issues in the past, so its just a matter of time.
I suspect its just one more mistake among many.
Wonder what would have happened if the auction had taken place–if the state had really sold your house by mistake.
This story reminds me: I miss Tanta.