Boomer (LACK OF) Business Ethics
by Tom aka Rusty Rustbelt
BOOMER (LACK OF) BUSINESS ETHICS
I recently had lunch with a friend of mine, one of the most sophisticated financial planners in the country. He has an interesting practice, about half wealthy executives and entrepreneurs, and the other half labor union pension plans. He made a huge ton of money for most of them by anticipating the financial meltdown and bear market.
As we started lunch he launched into a tirade.
“Tom, when we started in this business most of our clients were from the WWII generation, and they were honest, loyal, diligent and easy to work with. Sadly they are dying off.
Our own generation, the boomers are a bunch of self-centered, disloyal, unfocused, undisciplined bunch of greed heads. I hope Generation X does better.”
I agreed with most of this, as I have seen a rapid deterioration of business ethics over the past 35 years. To be fair though, there are many ethical boomers, including my friend. Just not enough.
No surprise that most of the key players in the financial meltdown were boomers, with a helping hand from Gen X.
Can we turn this around, or is the self-indulgent drug, sex and rock-and-roll ethical framework now more or less permanent?
We are an entitled generation.
Our parents comnquered, we enjoyed the fruits and forgot to save.
A generation of grasshoppers.
Um, as a general rule, we attribute wisdom in general to those who have done well in some narrower form of endeavor. Those who have succeeded in some endeavor also tend to adopt an assumption that they know more than the average bear. We make these assumption despite sometimes astounding evidence to the contrary.
The fact that some guy is successful at investing other people’s money does not recommend him as a critic of ethics across generations. Find a baker or a teacher or a bum who has as many years on him as the financial advisor, and odds are, that person would also have personal views regarding ethics over time. There is no particular reason to give more weight to one than another.
As to the logic of Rusty’s argument, well it is no surprise that boomers are in charge. That’s a simple manifestation of age. People in the middle-to-late years of their working life tend to hold power. Since their positions are probably due to their age, then the correlation between their age and any particular outcome is not shown to be causal.
Underneath all this we simply have Rusty saying he thinks boomers suck. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, but everything beyond opinion here is window dressing. Doesn’t mean boomers don’t suck, of course.
KH comes in, even again with his meaningless, messageless nonsensical comment. Here’s the example: “Underneath all this we simply have Rusty saying he thinks boomers suck. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, but everything beyond opinion here is window dressing. Doesn’t mean boomers don’t suck, of course.”
Boomers suck? Or Rusty has an opinion that agrees/not with KH?
BTW, Rusty has much support in the ethics issue. Often used examples include: Wall street, the other banking industry blow ups, Clinton, etc.
And of course on top of the obvious ethical lapses of boomers you have the willful negligence that’s just dumb.
I’m thinking of the bond traders who sold worthless “Investment Grade” securities to municipalities and school districts where they themselves resided. How could you not realize this would come back to haunt you? Making your own neighbors the next “Greater Fools” in line for getting screwed?
And of course poor Madoff’s excuse: “I didn’t want to steal but people kept giving me all this money to invest!” lol
CoRev,
KH is correct no statistical significance of Rusty’s sample of one or two to arrive at any accept or reject of the unstated hypothesis.
Rusty may be right but he does not prove any thing any more than the shouting head proved global warmimn does not exist from context starved quotes.
Ethically impaired: GW Bush, Cheney, Rove, Greenspan………………………….
Equal standards for Clinton’s successor.
I think that Rusty makes a good point. The so called wonder boys are of the Boomer set, along with their acolyte’s of Gen-X followers helping/learning. There has always been those special people who, for lack of a better term, are flim flam men, but not to the extent that we see today. Greed, Government corruption, seems to be so ingrained, I’m not sure how/what can turn things around, short of the bought & paid fors, are booted out of office. But, what’s being missed is the % of Gen-Xer’s who are turned off by what they see taking place today.
kharris has a valid point too, in that it doesn’t matter what ones station in life is, due to age, but, I guess it’s easy to point fingers, for that’s what we have become in this age of ???
It’s simple: ruthless and power-hungry sociopaths gain power and have defined management styles for at least the past 20 years or so.
So long as there are few consequences to unethical actions, there will continue to be more unethical people – especially in government. Dodd, Rangel, Waters, Graves etc….. Mayor of Baltimore convicted but keeps her $80K+ pension.
Our governmnet is totally corrupt, won’t throw stones in their glass house, and as a result they bail out all their buddies in the private sector.
Except for Greenspan, they all fit Rusty’s description of age.
I never claimed to be proving anything. Let kharris snarl.
I wanted to start a conversation. Mission accomplished. 🙂
Or that overall, ordinary people choose to implement or let happen bad behavior that they might reject if pinned down individually. Animal spirits is not only about investing.
IMF says $350 billion was laundred by Wachovia….drug cartel money, no prosecutions, the lubricant to the tight credit of today, as interbank lending laundrying. But that does not mean individuals are responsible? The answer apparently is yes. Anyone notice the GS fine on ROI?
Of course, CoRev’s real problem is that, as a ethics-free propagandist himself, he is uncomfortable having people around who point out that opinion, no matter how it is wrapped, doesn’t constitute proof. So CoRev does what his little propaganda handbook tells him to do. Cast doubt an anybody who asks for evidence. All part of the push-back plan.
A contrary opinion – fair and balanced.
http://social-corporate-responsibility.suite101.com/article.cfm/the-effect-of-baby-boomers-on-the-business-world
I don’t disagree with Rusty’s conclusion. I just don’t see the point in wrapping it in a just-so story that doesn’t add any weight to the conclusion.
We are surrounded by people who tell us stories that are crafted to make their view seem right on first hearing, in the expectation that they won’t think beyong the first hearing. Glenn Beck and CoRev come to mind. I just think we ought to look past the packaging to find the substance. The fact that somebody Rusty knows happens to agree with Rusty that boomers suck doesn’t tell us anything about reality. It only tells us that somebody Rusty knows shares Rusty’s view.
Now, from a psychological point of view, we would be more surprised if most of the people Rusty knows were to disagree with his view. There is great weight in what the rest of the tribe thinks. The fact that Rusty has found somebody who agrees with him, and that he cites that person’s view as important, is perfectly normal. People who believe that tax cuts pay for themselves are likely to find themselves in similar circumstance. The fact that we are likely to associate with people who agree with us on major points (marriage may be the great exception) means that knowing somebody who agrees with us should be underweighted as evidence. We tend to overweight it.
Rusty,
See, here’s my point, in broad terms, again. If I had meant to snarl, I’d have done so. I writing, that means wandering away from fact and reason to indulge in emotion, as you have done.
In normal discussion, one doesn’t claim to prove. One goes through the motions, and it is assumed. You have gone through the motions, but proven nothing along the way. “I just wanted to start a conversation” is a pretty common fallback position for those who have been found to have tried to make a point, but found wanting.
I don’t mind the conversation. I just want us to understand what the conversation is about. This is Oprah-level “how does it feel” stuff. We shouldn’t pretend it is more than that.
Now, speaking of ethics, you pretending there was something snarlish in my comment simply what I said didn’t work out for you is just a weee bit shady.
So kharris, write something that starts an interesting discussion, and send it to RDAN.
I could paste in links to a bunch of academic studies, and put everyone to sleep.
Actually, many of the boomers I know, especially the more liberal types, see the boomers in terms of civil rights, women’s rights, sexual freedom, and etc., which is a whole ‘nother perspective.
There are lots of perspectives. If you don’t like my conversation starters, wait for something else. If you don’t like me, that is fine.
Of course we will act only as un-ethically as the rules allow. A lot of those rules were relaxed removed or ignored for the last 30 years. It is not reasonable to think it is individual moral failing,when the system allows rewards and encourages people to cheat. The rules changed in response to a wealthy few buying our politicians, and thus the rule changes the wealthy few preferred were put in place. It is systemic not generational.
if the boomers suck, then why shouldn’t we dismantle social security, at least for them?
Y’all–It’s no more true that Boomers in business are morally corrupt as a group than it is that the Greatest Generation is really the greatest. I would think that people who got here when you had to build it all from scratch or those who fought the Revolution and the Civil War have an equal claim both to moral corruption and greatness. People made fortunes during the Depression in periods of deflation by honest means and by dishonest ones. There is nothing new under the sun now as ever.
However, what’s always on our minds now is the mess a relatively small number of people have made of the economy and the country’s politics generally. These greedy people who have got power have no intention of sharing or relinquishing it. So, what does that say about the rest of us? Do we just have to mill around like sheep and take whatever they dole out? Rusty’s friend cooperated with his clients to make them piles of money. Doesn’t seem to me he has much room to complain about Boomers’ lack of ethics when he did exactly what they wanted and got it for them anyhow.
And, what would he make of people like those here who have somehow avoided both poverty and corruption without having to think twice about it? When Wachovia and its money laundering employees get off with no prosecutions for a $350 million money laudering operation, I’d say that the corruption lies in those we trust to represent us. They have been here since the days of Calhoun and Clay, Burr and Hamilton, and Harding’s Tea Pot Dome. We should resist the temptation to blame a generation or the times and stick to the truth. It’s not as exciting as the myths we keep inventing for ourselves but that little tendency to tell stories works against us, as often as not. NO
Make my point, KH! It doen’t take 3 paras. to ask for verification.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-16/goldman-sachs-pays-small-sec-fine-and-nothing-else/?cid=bs:featured2
Y’all–Here’s an article with a picture of Goldman’s Blanfein. Proving yet again, what you see is what you get. NO
***The fact that some guy is successful at investing other people’s money does not recommend him as a critic of ethics across generations.***
But perhaps his success at investing does qualify him to express opinions on the ethics of his peers in the investment community and of the companies he invests in. Since those folks weigh far more heavily in the future welfare of the rest of us than those of elementary school teachers, store clerks, and firemen, maybe his opinion is worth listening to.
Well, yes, Rusty does seem to think that the boomers suck. And it’s hard to think of anything they have done well at other than some truly exceptional music and poetry in the 1960 and 1970s. I have to say that when I think of public figures I repect and admire, damn few of them are boomers — despite the fact that, the demographics being what they are, there are an inordinate number of boomers.
.
hmm…llyod blankfein and jamie dimon dont exactly seem to be the “drug, sex, and rock n roll” type…
kharris
i agree entirely.
i am a little older than the boomers. and while i have my own opinion about the younger generation, i remember the ethics of those who were older than me and in power. the boomers are no worse. they may be facing worse times. perhaps they have interacted with those times in less than optimal ways, but that’s what life is.
wallace
because then we would suck.
Actually, I know many boomers who do not suck. Many are in business and the professions.
Many more are people you will never hear of because they are teachers and nurses and geeks and will never hit the newspaper.
So my question is: is the boomer generation different with regard to ethics? I thinkso. some think not.
Several of the pot heads in my college classes eventually landed in finance and law.
And many of the boomer CPAs I know are definitely into sex and rock-and-roll. A couple even in drugs.
nancy
stop being so reasonable.
Works for Me!
Jeez, Jimi! What doesn’t work for you? Hmmmm? NO
Rusty–During the first Roosevelt administration, Teddy made it unfashionable to screw the poor (always), burn up all the bears, and monopolize your way to wealth and fame. A little later, the Labor movement in Europe and more Marxism came along and sent Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, and their friends a message. Not dumb people, they decided it was better to have an income tax than to stir up the American masses to unrest. When you look at what happened to poor Alexander and his family, I don’t blame them for wanting to make a few little concessions. They could afford to pay a little revolution insurance but it didn’t change their basic way of doing business.
Now, you take away the notion of revolution insurance, apply the same old rules of laissez faire capitalism as the great Captains of Industry enjoyed in the 19th and early 20th centuries, and what do you get? The same kind of wild-eyed, unrestrained greed and grossly inequitable distribution of income and assets. No surprises here. What did those people in the Fresh Water gang think would happen if everyone discovered the joys of the Free Market? Well, this is it, y’all.
John Rockefeller and Henry Ford (both Big B Baptists, incidentally) whose families have lived for an entire century in what they earned in 20 or 30 years, must be ROFLing their sprectral butts off. What did we expect when we bit the apple of money for nothing and the chicks are free? NO
The guy is dealing with a subset of boomers now, isn’t he. Then he’s extrapolating that subset to all without any evidence.
The USA kills women and children in Iraq – no accountability.
A US Treasury Secretary runs a firm that commits massive fraud – no accountability.
And so the message to the people is…..?
When I practiced as a lawyer, I saw this constantly. It is appalling the outright theft that I witnessed (and was asked to facilitate). This happened on a daily basis. It was a type of self-centeredness that bordered on autism. Stunning to watch people openly stealing day after day and then horrified and furious when they realized other people were doing the same thing to them.
Nice, provocative comment but any more posts like this and Angry Bear just becomes a site for whining. No data. No background. No logic structure. Just opinion buttressed by an anonymous reference. This is lazy thinking. Worse, it’s lazy writing. I expect more from this site.
I really wonder why anybody bothers to write this kind of piece, other than to show that they are not very smart. I’m sorry, I usually don’t get this snarky, and I certainly have my own issues with the baby-boomer mentality in whose shadow I grew up. I’m not saying the conclusion is wrong, but it’s worth noting that attributing better “ethics” to business people who openly racially discriminated (as well as on the basis of religion, nationality, etc.), poisoned air, water and land, meddled in foreign governments, all the while making a check where they could keep the little lady at home is also a more-or-less fair stereotype. And they got a pension, too.
Recently, I heard an interview with a WWII vet, and he actually was complaining how little recognition that generation got. I couldn’t believe it. I’ll give that generation all they deserve for supporting a 12 million man armed forces in very sophisticated logistic situations. But, they were still the ones who lost Viet Nam by thinking they’d seen it all.
Am I wrong?
You mentioned loyalty … plenty of boomers adopted the loyalty ethics of their parents, up till business spent a generation in downsizing, restructuring, scamming the pension plans, shipping jobs overseas or cutting hours so their staff were all part-timers, and all those other wonderful lean-and-mean strategies. PLUS, business gave their staff seminars about how wonderful all these changes were, adding the insult of condescension to the injury of insolvency.
Loyalty is still appropriate in many jobs, but in the majority of cases it’s just an invitation to be suckered.
Noni
Didn’t Abby Hoffman go to work on Wall St?????
codger
i am not so sure you should count those schoolteachers and store clerks out. salt of the earth actually means something.
probably more than “investment advisor.”
jimi
you just don’t know much history if you think today’s ethics are any worse than any other generation’s.
i think there was some idealism coming out of ww2 that moved the country forward. funny that it all came a cropper when Ronald Reagan made Ayn Rand’s ethics popular.
EMS
ah hate to bust yer bubble, but all that data, background, and logic structure, is just whining dressed up for the opera.
probably a bit.
anyone who saw combat in ww2 has my respect. at least for that much. may not agree with him about anything else. but that, yes.
the loss of vietnam was in going there in the first place. though once again, those who had seen ww2 may be forgiven a little bit if they thought they were saving the world from another big one.
i think they were wrong. and that eventually they betrayed every moral decency by the way they fought the war. but they may have got into it by just being honorably stupid.
For goodness sake, all this beating around the bush. The difference between then and now was enforcement. Americans voted to stop enforcing good business conduct in the 1980s, and it’s been downhill on the “ethics” front since. Sure, the old NASDAQ had its slogan, “My word is my bond.”, but that was predicated on the fear that the SEC would shut them down if they started pulling stunts and investors complained. When the SEC started with the new right wing permissiveness, the marketplace turned into anything goes.
We should learn from the crime situation. In the 1980s it seemed out of control. Then we got serious about enforcing the law. 1% of the country is in jail, even now. We hired more cops, more prosectuors, and cut the supply of illegal guns. Now people think twice about embarking on a life of crime. It doesn’t pay the way it used to.
This approach would work just as well with business ethics. If you put a 1950s businessman into this regulatory climate, he’d be just as corrupt as a modern businessman in a year or two. He’d even have a few old scams he could play that we haven’t seen in a while. If you put a modern businessman into a tighter regulatory box, he’d bitch and whine like a CEO, but then he’d behave ethically, and in a year or two start doing “the right thing” automatically. The problem is permisiveness, not generational morals.
A friend of mine is a Gen-X lawyer. He passed up the lure of a big money law firm job to work as a civil servant. He says that most of the people of our generation whom he’s dealt with are the loyalest, hardest-working, diligent-est people he’s met.
Being a fellow civil servant, Gen-Xer and lawyer, as well as possessing a strong work ethic (as demonstrated by my background of 10 years of $5-8/hour work), I couldn’t help but agree.
the Boomers were in the right place at the right time, for those who wished to screw America big time. the Gradual and planned destruction of “America as we thought it was” has been a well thought out. Grover Norquist was one, Lee ATwater was another.
the Boomers saw their kin getting killed at Kent State, Jackson State back in the 60’s. Protesters started dying. Resistance is deadly, so join in and get your share. which describes the Democratic party of today. No more pictures of dead soldiers either. clean and neat “war.”
this started way back before the Boomer joined in. they knew they couldn’t survive being assassinated, like Lennon, Wellstone, King, the Kennedys, and just about all others who dared. but they are dead.
if you can’t fight them, join them. Guns really do change the equation.
that the Elite would kill the protesters was proof NO one would survive . endless wars, control of the media, so you can’t hear “bad” things, and the destructions of schools/thinking.
Americans are generally dumbed down. lol and Voila! Instant Zombies.
Benny–Interesting you mention Kent State. As soon as I heard about it, I knew that the end of the protests had come. I didn’t know that the end of causes and devotion to them had also come. There is something to what you say sad as I am to say it. Nancy Ortiz
nancy
i can’t remember if kent state was the last of the protests. i thought it was after they ended the draft.
the boomers (younger than me) had their share of idealists… better, i think, than their parents, but they had more time and money to let it flower so to speak. they also had the assholes. the fraternity brothers who beat up the protesters until they figured out it was more fun to grow their hair long and sleep with them.
it was galling, but not surprising, to see the assholes grow up into the positions of power.
how are a few anecdotes a justificationfor a blanket indictment of a segment of the population?
a good friend of mine who was a designer for intel was stoned all the time; others used to smoke pot with bill clinton behind the arkansas capitol dome while the women were doing the organizing; so what does any of that prove about their ethics?
old heads are some of the most trustworthy people i know…
Spencer and others write some very good posts with lots of data. Want everything the same?
I give credit to combat vets whatever the battle, campaign, war, whether I support the mission, or not. I think we do basically agree that Viet Nam was not lost by 19-29 year old baby boomers.
More apropos of the topic at hand, though, I take issue with superficial ethical nostalgia. As for musing about generational business ethics, I did find one scandal that may be roughly comparable to post-Carter era Wall Street. The electrical equipment bid-rigging that was commonly practiced by the large industrials actually sounds a lot like what Wall Street did, or at least shared many of the same features, most notably the notion that obeying the law is not an obligation, but a cost/benefit calculation for management. There are some parallels to how the big fianacials appear to have divied up the muni bond market.
One key difference, though, is many of the players involved in this scandal did end up in jail. So far, only Bernie’s and a few others’ scalps have been collected.
We could call the pieces “Musings by Rusty”.
Actually, protests got worse for a while after Kent State. I had friends on both sides (a couple of my high school friends, one hippie one Guardsman, would get together late at night after the pepper gas cleared and drink beer together, nothing stops the beer at Ohio State.)
Coberly’s description of the frat boys is right on.
Musings are ok as long as they prompt discussions.
Straw Man
right.
back in 1964, when presumably the people running General Electric were not boomers, they got busted for fraud so often, that we understood that among their dozen vice presidents was a Vice President For Going To Jail.
Yes…how about in your face musings by Rusty!