Clinton achieves the impossible
I was fairly certain that if Clinton were elected president and the Democrats were to win a majority in the Senate, that they would lose that majority in 2018.
I think that Hillary Clinton may have proven me wrong and found the only way to prevent that — by causing the Democrats to lose the majority in 2017.
I think this is about the dumbest thing a politician has done since her husband nominated Lloyd Bentson secretary of the Treasury (OK the stuff he did with Lewinsky wasn’t too smart either but this Clinton wasn’t as tempted this time).
update: just to try to be more nearly clear, my claim in this post is that, if Kaine is elected VP, his Senate seat will be filled for one year by someone chosen by the governor and then there will be a special election. I believe that this election will be in 2017 along with the gubernatorial election. I am fairly confident that it will be won by a Republican. I believe that there aren’t all that many Democratic politicians who can win in purple Virginia in a non Presidential year and that Kaine is one of them.
I think that that high risk of losing a senate seat outweighs any other effect of the choice.
Bev.
You need to stop this shit.
You are like the naked capitalists and the green lanterns in that your two year old IQ of politics is the main reason the Dem Party is too far to the center.
All you people care about is what you want. Nothing else is a concern. It is especially galling to hear an attorney, whose education in the Constitution has been the basis of their life, ignore what that Constitution mandates.
It is now, and has always been, about compromises. Change is slow, that is mandated by the Constitution. Yet you two year olds refuse to accept that simple fact.
In terms of Kaine(who I really do not know), I will state the following:
1. Exactly what did Joe Biden do as VP? In the voting and in legislation since election.
2. I doubt Kaine will put Clinton over the top in VA, as I believe Va was going to Clinton anyway. He will not affect the voting anywhere else, as no VP has ever done so.
3. Congress makes legislation.
4. Without question, Kaine’s nomination increases the chances of the DP getting control of the Senate.
5. Who has more power in the federal government? The VP or the Senate Chairs of various committees?
6. Congress makes legislation.
7. Obama will do more to excite the base to vote for Clinton than any other VP pick could possibly do.
Finally,
This is Bernie’s chance. He has been handed the perfect opportunity to move the party to the left. Find a candidate to replace Kaine in VA. Raise money for that candidate. Campaign for him. Make Clinton and Obama do the same thing.
Congress makes legislation.
Damn.
My apologies to Bev.
I assumed that this was here post.
Mea culpa.
Robert,
Once you descend into green lanternism, it is almost impossible to escape.
You need to chill.
I don’t think my post was clear. My objection to Kaine VP is that his seat will be filled by a special election in 2017. As you note senators are quite powerful. I don’t think it is wise to put a Senate seat at risk. As you also argue Kaine rather than someone else as VP candidate will probably not have a detectable effect on the presidential election.
My post has nothing to do with Green Lanternism.
Bill Clinton didn’t turn a Texas Senate seat from blue(ish) to red through force of will. He did it by nominating Lloyd Bentson to be Secretary of the Treasury.
As far as I can tell, you completely misunderstood my post. So I have to rewrite it. The problem is that I have no idea what you think I was saying, so I don’t know how to explain that it isn’t what I meant to write.
As the Governor of VA in the run -up to the Great Recession, Kaine balanced the books by cutting nearly $5 billion in state spending, without raising taxes.
As governor, he affirmed Virginia’s status as a “right-to-work” state.
Kaine is friendlier toward the coal industry than many Democrats, since it has a sizable presence in Virginia.
He has also backed expanded oil drilling off the Virginia coast.
He has now backed lobbyist-driven efforts to help banks dodge consumer protection standards and regulations designed to prevent banks from repeating 2008.
Yes, the intention towards “banks” are intended to differentiate between regional banks, which do seem to be in need of some relief, as Warren herself has indicated. However, such efforts conveniently – too conveniently — ignore the fact that the five biggest banks on Wall Street now control 43% of all banking activity in the country.
As she chooses, so shall she govern. With his support of “right to work,” sayonara. With his support of coal and off shore oil drilling, as if climate change doesn’t exist, sayonara. With his efforts to help oligopolists on Wall Street, sayonara.
I was prepared to swallow bucket loads of crap to vote for her, but I won’t have it crammed down my throat. Not only has she delivered a slap in the face to all those Bernie supporters, like me, whom she holds in contempt, she has treacherously outmaneuvered Warren, Sanders, et al. That’s what Liberals do best.
For those who think this opens more ground for Trump to win, they are absolutely right. She can roast in the eternal fires of hell; she has earned her passage.
I understood your comment Robert- basically making the argument why it would not be Brown or Booker for vp a year later. I guess I do not see it that way for a number of reasons. First, I think Kaine is a good choice. From what I know he is at least slightly left of center and a genuinely good guy who could be a decent president if called upon and is respected by the non crazies on both sides of the aisle. Second we do not know that the GOP will win that seat in 2017. I know it does not look good but we have not seen what sort of defeat the GOP will sustain this fall. If Trump wins it is a moot point. Third, while I never count chickens before they are hatched I think Trump can drag more than 5 GOP senate seats to defeat. If he does not drag at least 5 again it is a moot point. Finally, while I agree that Virginia is likely to go blue anyway, I think Kaine seals the deal and frees up resources for closer states–Ohio comes to mind. Further rewarding party stalwarts is always a good way to energize other party stalwarts and that can have an impact in other states
By early Nov 17 the revolt against Clinton will be in full swing. If the impeachment is slow moving.
I doubt the house will need intent for charging violating national security law as dismissing high crimes and misdemeanors.
I will do my part to make sure NH has more GOPsters in congress.
EMichael you channeling a cavalryman!
Robert,
My apologies, though the update would have helped a lot.
Meanwhile, I know next to nothing about VA except that it has trended Dem for the last several election cycles. I see no reason why that will not continue, and firmly believe that this gives Sanders a ideal opportunity to begin to form a progressive movement in Congress. Especially considering the logistics.
MS,
Excusing Kaine’s pandering to banksters saying the letter was about local banks raises for me the spectre of the S&L Crisis.
Having been around so long is getting on me.
Robert, your answer is only half correct. True, Kaine is important in the Senate.But the reason is that if Hillary wins she needs a Democratic majority (or at least a 50-50 split) because the House will likely remain a Republican majority and are likely to impeach Hillary shortly after inauguration. Without sufficient Democrats in the Senate, she will be the first President to be impeached and removed from office, something that even her husband was not able to accomplish.
Welcome to Angry Bear. First posts are always moderated so as to prevent spammers.
Bob,
Welcome.
You should try to read the Senate rules about impeachment.
The only thing I care about at this point is preventing Trump from winning the presidency. Given how bad that would be, I’m fine with Clinton making a safe choice, if that’s what this is.
Removal from office after impeachment requires 2/3 of the Senate, so that’s very unlikely.
“Excusing Kaine’s pandering to banksters saying the letter was about local banks raises for me the spectre of the S&L Crisis.”–Ilsm–
One of the mysteries of the internet to me is why people without any idea of what they are talking about insist on making a total fool of themselves.
That comment is absurdly wrong and totally irrelevant to the letter Kaine was involved in sending to the FED.
You should try not to talk.
EM:
I believe his stance is about community banks and credit unions not being as threatening?
Ms 57, there was absolutely no reason for Hillary not to run to the center. You may decide to vote for Stein, write in Bernie or wash your hair on November 8 but I am pretty darn sure you will not vote for Trump. So at most Hillary suffers a loss of one vote. To the extent there are folks out there who do not like Trump or Hillary and think there is actually a chance the crazies in the House would impeach Hillary out of the gate some of those folks might be moved to hold their nose and vote for Hillary reasoning that Kaine was a better choice than Trump. That is a potential 2 vote swing. Personally I think liberals should give Hillary a reason to give a damn and support Hillary. Apart from the votes for Bernie I still need to be convinced that the white left will turnout in a general election
Terry,
Personally I would love to sink the political knife into Trump’s black heart.
I am perfectly aware that I am one vote, as is everyone on these pages. I am also aware that there are a million voters out there today who feel the same way I do.
I am not a l-l-l-l-ib… a l-I-I-I-I-ib…. a l-l-l-l-liberal. I don’t know how many of the “white” left will turn out for Hillary, and it’s not my intention to convince you of anything. But the chances of the left supporting her have been seriously diminished; she was aware of that when she made her choice. She can go f**k herself.
Perhaps she forgot: 12 million votes and $250 million. Perhaps she remembered: $250 million is much easier to come by from the financial class than individual voters — you know, the people.
I couldn’t agree more with you and less with Terry–except on the part about not voting for Clinton.
I don’t get this idea of voting for a third party candidate. Or of not voting at all. I think that’s a luxury that only people whose lives aren’t actually effected by the federal courts (to their probably-mistaken knowledge) and won’t be by the Paul Ryan fiscal/regulatory schemes, and figure they’ll die before global warming becomes a serious problem–or who live in a non-swing state–can afford.
So except for the dying before global warming thing, I guess you’re pretty lucky. At least in the sense of ignorance is bliss.
I’m assuming that somewhere in this thread you said you’s vote for Stein or won’t vote. If not, apologies.
Run,
Not exactly. Kaine’s letter was talking about large banks, but not the big boys. Current regulations do not require banks with less than $250 billion in assets to report their positions on a daily basis. Larger than that and they do.
Which is why Ilsm’s comment is baseless and beyond silly.
Good summary here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/22/why-clintons-pick-for-vp-might-contradict-her-message-on-wall-street/
Ewwwe. If the banks with less than $250 billion in assets do’t have to report their positions on a daily basis, then wasn’t the letter referring to some pretty darn big banks?
I’m confused. Why were these people complaining? Banks with more than $250 billion in assets are, certainly by my definition, big banks.
I think you should read what Roll Call has to say about Kaines’ replacement.
http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/virginia-governor-appoint-replacement-kaine
It does not look like the appointment will cause the democrats to lose a democratic senate seat.
I’m sure Hillary was well aware of the secondary impact of her pick.
Spencer I was talking about what will happen November 2017 not November 2016. Senators appointed by governors serve until the next election. Virginia will have an election November 2017 (it is a very unusual state which elects governors on odd numbered years).
Note my post said 2017 not 2018 so I was clearly not referring to the Senate which will convene January 2017 but the one which will be elected in 2017 (OK should have been clearer on that). I wrote about what would happen “if the Democrats were to win a majority in the Senate” in other words conditioning on state in January 2017.
nominating Kaine makes more sense than Brown, Booker or Warren whose replacements would be named by Republican governors. On the other hand, I think it would have made more sense to choose *secretary* Perez or *secretary* Vilsack.
I’ve clicked the link. I have read the title and subtitle of the article. I quote
the subtitle (emphasis mine) “Number of Senate Democrats would not be impacted immediately if Kaine became VP”
Yup. You’re right, Robert. The election will be in November 2017.
Contrary to the always, always CW, if a Democrat effectively sponsored by Sanders and Warren, rather than a friggin’ centrist, is the nominee, the Dem will have a good chance to win because of higher-than-normal Dem turnout.
RW,
You should have read the entire link. It quite clearly talks about the candidates for the special election in 2017, including McAuliffe himself.
@EMichael
your reading comprehension, per usual, is poor. Different author. Do try to keep up.
Ah, an excellent point, but you are thinking tactical when the move is really strategic.
Kaine is a love letter by Hillary to her oligarch patrons, that all the ‘tacking to the left’ when she was fighting Bernie Sanders was a lie. It’s an honest signal that, really really, Hillary is exactly what she has always been, the candidate of Wall Street and War, joined at the hip with Goldman Sachs.
So (other) Democrats may lose out – you think she cares? Kaine cements the deal with her base, which are the elite super-rich who really run things. It is her willingness to shill for the donor class that is Hillary’s only real strength as a political candidate, and really, you need to go with your strengths.
TG,
How could anyone argue otherwise?
It reminds me of the old joke. A wife gets home and finds her husband in bed with another woman. “Honey,” he says, “it’s not what you think. Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?”
I am plugged in to all kinds of sites where I usually get a bunch of emails regarding the need to support HRH HRC. The silence from Warren, Sanders, Reich, Sherrod Brown et al. has been deafening. I guess they, as I have been for the past 24 hours, are looking for someone to take the knife out of their back, too.