The dirty tricks in 1972 were sustained attacks based on faleshoods by the Nixon CREEP against the most popular possible Dem opponent, Sen. Edmund Muskie of Maine, who was finally brought to tears in public, which fatally damaged his campaign, opening the way for George McGovern to get the nomination and take only DC and Massachusetts in the general election. Today Trump and his many allies, both in Congress and on Fox News, have peddled a false story that Joe Biden fired a Ukrainian prosecutor because that prosecutor was investigating Biden’s son, Hunter. They said repeatedly during the impeachment trial, and just last night I heard Sean Hannity at it again vociferously, with those on the show all nodding their heads. Today is the New Hampshire primary and results not out yet. But Biden is expecting to do poorly, while Bernie Sanders is likely to win (although might not), with Warren also probably on the fade, leaving Bernie on top on the progressive left end of the Dems. I read some interviews with voters in Iowa who did not vote for Biden because they fear the “baggage” of his son and that the attacks by Trump et al will weaken him like Hillary’s emails hurt her in the 2016. But to me, this looks more like 1972 all over again.
Now I like Bernie and have lots of respect for him. I also liked McGovern, and somewhere in July, 1972 I was out in South Dakota and actually thought he might win, although in the end he was unable to take even his home state. I even was an economic adviser of his during his brief run in 1984, when he dropped out after surprising everybody by coming in third in the Iowa caucus (Eleanor had not wanted him to run a all). I provided him with a budget proposal he touted there and got called “the conscience of the Democratic Party,” but nobody was under any delusions that he had any chance of winning anything, having been ousted from his Senate seat in 1980 in the Reagan sweep (which also took out the Father of Earth Day, Gaylord Nelson of Wisconsin).
Barkley,
I think it is too early to even take a guess, though I share your fear of a national campaign by bernie with his baggage.
Though I will say that I disagree with the idea that trump’s bs about biden has anything to do with his poor showing. True, the NH primary was a disaster for him, but that could just as easily be Rep Independents trying to take him out of the race. I also pay no attention to Iowa, even if it wasn’t screwed up. Caucuses are a huge negative for democracy.
Barkley:
I am not sold on Bernie. I also think the Socialist label will be stuck to him and once again we be fighting a battle with the 30 or so percent who are afraid of what it means. I do not see Bernie as a socialist although I do not believe he knows how to get the argument across for healthcare which his plan does fall short for Single Payer as cored to Jayapal’s plan. Age will plan against him as not only is he old, he looks old, and suffered a heart issue while campaigning. People seem to like strong men like “all talk” trump who really needs to stop with the McDonalds Burgers. If he gets any bigger, they will be widening doors for his hips to get through.
Do you still have the budget proposal you gave McGovern? That would be interesting reading.
You certainly took me down memory lane—George was the first presidential candidate I was old enough to vote for due to the lowering of the voting age to 18– and I certainly recall the don’t blame me I am from Massachusetts bumper stickers. What I did not realize until much later was that McGovern was a certified war hero although to those of us with low lottery numbers and 2S deferments he was the peace candidate and heir to the Eugene McCarthy supporters from 1968. I am guessing but do not know that neither Bernie nor Bloomberg served and while you do not have to support the military to be patriotic I do think you have to at least respect those who served. I know it did not work out for Gore and Kerry against Dumbya, but I do think Mayor Pete’s military service is a plus if he ends up running against Captain Bone Spurs. Indeed while there is a heavy thread of white nationalism in the military, I think there is a sizeable contingent who think Trump is a dick ( and a limp one at that) and could be a tipping point in a couple of toss up states come November if they can be persuaded to vote for a Democrat. Presumably not Bernie or Bloomberg. I do think Biden is finished and it has nothing to do with Trump’s dirty tricks. He is just too old and comes across as everyone’s senile old uncle. Bernie does not come across as senile but he certainly has baggage and is not going to get much of any of his ideas through Congress under any circumstances. Bloomberg would be trading one authoritarian racist oligarch for another, so I am still thinking Pete or Amy are the best remaining choices—really do not think Warren has a path with Bernie sucking up all the oxygen on the left and everyone else left
Standing fighting over everyone who is not far left
The media (and not just the news) had done a great job convincing everyone that we can not have an Eisenhower, never mind our FDR New Deal. Warren was correct when she blasted the “moderates” on stage about not thinking and shooting for the brass ring.
With that, the republicans are set to degradate any nominee the Dem’s end up with. I heard on NPR yesterday a discussion about their data base on all reporters/journalist and their operation to weaponize any thing they think will harm any of them that go against them. I’m sure they have it on all the candidates.
Socialist I’m sure is at the top of their list of words to fling far and wide.
The only path I see for the dems to win is to bash Trump just as hard. They need to take lessons from FDR and listen to how he spoke of the republicans.
Run,
Don’t have that old budget, but the main part of it that George talked about was a 25% cut in the DOD budget.
I agree that Gop will call the Dem candidate whomever a “ssocialist.” But with Bernie it will be (and already is) the “communist” label. Defenders will charge McCarthyism, but the hard fact is that not only was Trotssky an actual Communist, he was a super one to the left of the Soviet Commuinist Party under Stalin. I had friends who were Trotskyists, but they were young and that was in the late 60s early 70s. They were long over it when Bernie was supporting the SWP prez candidate at age 42 in 1984.
I used to say that (only half in jest) that Australians (being a skeptical lot) elect the least unpopular politician, whereas Americans (via first past the post) elect the most popular (and often the most divisive) politician.
Maybe the Democratic should go to preferential voting (single transferable vote).
We may well go to a brokered convention with “progressives” and “centrists” (I hate those labels) relatively evenly balanced. I don’t see Bloomberg as the compromise. More likely, Warren. She has cred with the progressives and enough practicality to interest the others. Her retreat from Medicare for all would help her there and there’s no Communism in her history. In any event, Super Tuesday will likely tell the tale.
JackD,
Very reasonable evaluation.
I think the first two primaries are actually a huge negative for the Dem candidates. I mean IA is 90% white and NH is 93%. And there is a grand total of 7 electoral college votes between the two. I fail to see why they have any important role in this process. Hopefully the screw up in Iowa will put that state where it belongs in this process.
I think Warren will be a big factor moving forward. I also hope that is the case.
This article is just telling its readers what they want to hear. Warren is not popular, and the Republicans are afraid of Sanders. Some parts of the GOP seem to be taking Sanders seriously and support some of his populist sincerity. At least Tucker Carlson does.
Angry Bear is not Naked Capitalism. It’s closer to the Op Ed of the NYT.
Peter:
We are no NC and neither would we or should we want to be. It has a niche and AB has its. Op Ed of NYT, doubtful. You are fishing for a response . . .
I’ hoped I’d seen the last of him, but I’m not that lucky.
Me too.
Peter,
Which “article”? My post?
Trump playing populist to Bernie supporters is not new. He did it in 2016, and there were some Berniebros who voted for him, although the ones really down on Hillary were more likely to go with Stein or even Johnson or just stay home.
Run and Barkley,
Peter is the old PeterK from EV and occasionally AB.. He has the distinction of being only 1 out of 2 posters to be banned from EV by Dr. Thoma.
He then changed his name to ChristopherH, toned it down in terms of language, and Dr. Thoma allowed him to keep posting.
He is, to be kind, a berniebro. Anything remotely mentioning Bernie in a negative light will draw his comments. In this post by Barkley, that would be talking about Rep dirty tricks against Biden. Now, that does not affect Bernie, but it also is an article not fully about Bernie.
The fact Barkley said, “Now I like Bernie and have lots of respect for him”, is not enough for this person. It has to be all Bernie, all the time.
The blog is far better off with Peter(or whatever name he chooses) to spend his time at NC, as they will be sure to satisfy his addiction there, where he will find a bunch of other Berniebros.
http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2020/02/satirical-music-video-riffs-can-they.html
The trouble with Warren is that she is almost universal choice among the commentariat at the progressive blogs I frequent. These people mostly belong to the hated educated “elite”. That is what she has to overcome somehow. Anti-intellectualism is as American as apple pie.
I think we fail to remember Warren also wrote the “The Coming Collapse the Middle Class” and earlier articles on the economic threats to the Middle Class.
Talking of satirical songs – maybe someone should do a version of Randy Newman’s “Short People” with “Smart People”.
I’m not the Peter you speak of. This is what the author of the article wrote that I take issue with:
“But in contrast to Warren, he has a lot of Dems against him (although Gabbard and Bloomberg have more), with on that measure Warren the least disliked among Dems of all their candidates. As it is, both Dems and the Trump people have held off going too hard against Bernie, the Dems out of not wanting to anger his loyal followers, and until very recently the Trump people out of wanting to puff him up against Biden the way they puffed him up against Cliinton (and still do. last night Hannity was all over how the Dems screwed him out of the nomination in 2016).”
1) Sanders (and Gabbard) are a threat to the establishment that has, over the decades, financialized the American economy and outsourced added value jobs. When the Bretton Woods gold standard collapsed, the Treasury Bond standard took its place. This is the established order that feels threatened. It isn’t specific to a single party. It’s the American establishment. Sanders is a New Dealer, not a communist.
2) Warren is not liked by her constituents and not trusted in Washington. She dug her own grave. I used to love her until she unraveled. She wraps herself in minority identity that only fools white liberals. She is known in minority communities as the “Rachel Dolezol” of Washington DC.
3) This third point is what convinced me to write a comment: the Democratic establishment has been relentless in their slandering of Sanders. This fact is so obvious that to think otherwise only reveals the blindness of the author. As far as Trump is concerned, he knows he would have a very difficult time running against Sanders. Sanders is a populist, and a more effective populist than Trump. The idea that Sanders has been “puffed up” by his opponents is flat out wrong – like thinking that a red light means go and a green light means stop. That kind of wrong.
Sorry, but these 3 points mean that the writer is not someone who sees the lay of the land accurately.
Well, if I am wrong about your identity I apologize.
At the same time, the idea that Barkley’s post was any kind of “slander” against Sanders is absurd (though he certainly does no need me to defend him). And if you are a different Peter, you two Ps are from the same pod.
As this post is an example of my thoughts on PeterK.
The only place you folks might have seen me post was on Krugman’s old NYT’s blog, Conscience of a Liberal. I was one of a very vocal minority of commenters who supported Bernie Sanders. The Krugman commenters were identical in sentiment to the commenters here on Angry Bear.
Hope this helps.
You are entitled to your opinion.
I ignored PeterK aka ChristopherH and I find it will be the best way to deal with you.
EMichael, I never said Barkley Rosser slandered Bernie Sanders. I said the Democratic establishment has. My accusation against Barkley R. was that his assessment was wrong.
You are trying to cyber bully me. Just ignore my posts if you don’t want to have substantive dialogue. My 3 points of criticism stand, though.
Peter,
On your three points:
1) I would agree than many Establishment figures view Sanders as a threat. I do not think they view Gabbard as one. She is just a hypocrite.
2) You are overstating Warren’s unpopularity in MA. She won reelection in 2016 with 60% of the vote. Apparently there are many who did not want her to run for president, but it is not because they do not like her. They want her to continue to serve as senator. Her biggest loss of support has apparently been among Independent men.
Your comments on her Native American bit are bizarre. You say you loved her until she “wrapped herself in minority identity.” This suggests you do not know what you are talking about. She was into her slight Native ancestry back in the 1980s and then quietly stopped talking about it or asserting it. Then when she ran for office, Republicans dredged it all up and sttarted calling her “Pocahontas.” She has in fact apologized for all of it.
3) It is true that many Dems have sharply criticized Sanders, although, frankly, many have held back out of not wishing to upset his supporters. However, you are delusional to think that Trump is afraid of Bernie. They did push him up in 2016, that is a hard fact, and they have been pushing him up this time as well. Biden has run better against Trump than Bernie right up until the last week or so. Bernie can compete better in some states than some of the other Dems, but in some other places he will not do so well, and he is likely to be a very serious problem for many House Dem freshmen.
Also, if you are not recognizing that when “Medicare for All” is spelled out to voters to involve ending private insurance, it is rejected on a 2 to 1 basis, you are delusional. It threatens to be a disastrous policy position that could hand the Hosee back to the GOP, quote aside from reelecting Trump and keeping the Senate GOP. This is not at all a joke.
Barkley:
I agree with your comment on Medicare for All. To even peak people’s interest, the start of the discussion of it should not have been with raising taxes which came after challenges from Sanders and Warren’s rivals. Detailing the issues and problems with commercial healthcare insurance and healthcare’s associated costs would have been a good start. How do we pay for healthcare in the US? We attack the costs of healthcare in which the initial estimates of savings could be in the realm of $1 trillion.
Barkley Rosser,
You should stick to theoretical models. Empirical research is not your forte. Good luck.
I do not see you providing a single source or shred of data to support your incorrect and false remark about “empirical research.” I am right and you are wrong. Ir is as simple as that. Deal with it.
(And notbody is gong to read this thread anymore, Peter, so just zip it. I am not going to respond here to anything you put here further, but you have indeed lost all credibiiity with me, showing yourself to be a fanatic and a worthless idiot. (Goodbye.)
Barkley,
That’s what PeterK always does.
Barkley, I don’t have quantitative data for political sentiments. All I can tell you is that there is an undeniable movement from red and blue voters to clean out Washington. The red states gave us the Tea Party, which was easily co-opted by the GOP. Trump is the result of that.
As awful as that seems, there is a possible silver lining – the populist left via Bernie Sanders, AOC, Pramila Jayapal, Shahid Buttar, and many, many others. The new populist left will not be co-opted by the “party” because they understand that it is the party itself that is the problem. The red state voters are taking note, which is probably why FOX News will often treat the populist left with more respect than MSNBC or CNN. Tucker Carlson gets it, in other words.
The choice is yours as to whether you pay attention or not. You and the rest of the commenters here rely on ad hominem attacks to give weight to your statements. That has zero value.
Again, the choice is yours.