Two Stories on Cause and Effect
Cause and effect leaves little room for how people want the world to work. Here are two stories illustrating that.
From Bloomberg:
A Swiss maker of hamburger buns for McDonald’s Corp. said it’s struggling to run a Chicago bakery after it lost a third of its workers in a clampdown on 800 immigrants without sufficient documentation.
About 35 percent of the workers at Cloverhill Bakery had to be replaced, according to Zurich-based Aryzta AG. The company, which makes baked goods for fast-food chains and supermarkets, said the employees were supplied by a job-placement agency that faced federal audits earlier this year.
The piece goes on:
The raid on workers at Cloverhill is one of the biggest U.S. employment headaches reported by a European company so far as President Donald Trump has made curbing undocumented immigration a centerpiece of his presidency. Aryzta said it faces challenges in retaining staff in the U.S. and pressure to raise wages.
Wait… removing workers who are here illegally increases demand for American workers and boosts wages? How can this possibly be? This must violate some law of economics. Next someone will come up with the crazy idea that there are other effects, such as on housing costs, traffic and congestion, and government expenditures.
Here’s an unrelated story, out of Philadelphia:
A Philadelphia city councilwoman is defending her controversial bill that would force certain businesses to remove bulletproof barriers separating cashiers and customers.
Councilwoman Cindy Bass said in a statement her proposed legislation only affects stores applying for a “large establishment” license, or sit-down restaurants where food is served and there is seating and tables for 30 or more people.
The goal is to crack down on so-called “stop-and-go” shops, or convenience stores that sell hot food and alcohol, many of which have become nuisances to neighborhoods with intoxicated and unruly customers, according to Bass and other lawmakers.
Here’s more:
Her bill would also require large establishments to have a publicly accessible restroom and serve food regularly. Bass said in many instances, stop-and-go stores claim to sell hot food to obtain liquor licenses, selling liquor “by the shot” and operating “under fraudulent circumstances.”
Also:
Bass tried to clarify that her bill would only regulate large establishments, not corner stores, small pharmacies or similar businesses. She said her office has also proposed safety alternatives to barriers, such as lighting, cameras, security guards, security wands and police check-ins.
A Fox affiliate has a bit more information and more clarity:
The bill, put forward by Councilwoman Cindy Bass, focuses on “stop-and-go” convenience stores that act more like bars than the restaurants they are licensed to be, selling beer and shots of liquor over the counter and attracting crowds that end up becoming public nuisances, lawmakers say.
“If the glass comes down, the crime rate will rise and there will be lots of dead bodies,” Rich Kim, the owner of Broad Deli, which sells soda, meals and beer by the can, told FOX29. “The most important thing is safety and the public’s safety.”
Kim said the glass went up after a shooting and says it saved his mother-in-law from a knife attack.
Pennsylvania state law mandates businesses with restaurant licenses should regularly sell food and have tables and chairs to seat 30 people. But some, according to an investigation by local news station 6ABC, keep their seating locked up or out of reach and the grills shut down, selling little more than alcohol and forcing customers to wander outside.
Consumption of alcohol away from the confines of the store then leads to problems, State Rep. Jordan Harris, a Democrat who represents Philadelphia, told Fox News.
Someone should inform the good Councilwoman don’t get it that unnecessarily inconveniencing customers makes for a poor business model, particularly using expensive bulletproof barriers to do it. And yet, businesses in certain areas keep inconveniencing customers by using those barriers. Perhaps the Councilwoman and her fellow Councilmembers should ask themselves what is going on, or in a few years they’ll be asking why there are no businesses at all in those very same areas.
“traffic and congestion”
Geez
Meanwhile, I look forward to your update on this story when Aryzta AG is prosecuted for hiring illegal aliens.
Meanwhile, perhaps you could mention to the criminals in the HR Department of Cloverhill Bakery that they might not be “struggling to run a Chicago bakery after it lost a third of its workers” if they actually tried to get workers:
“We’re sorry but there are no open positions at this time. We are always looking for qualified individuals. So, please submit your resume and we’ll contact you if you meet the qualifications when positions become available. ”
https://aryzta.silkroad.com/epostings/index.cfm?version=1&company_id=16134
Oh, one more thing. Your Philly story is so slanted as to be propaganda.
Corner stores have found a loophole in order to sell alcohol. In doing so, they have created a total mess in some of the worst areas in the city, y’know, the parts where ” bulletproof barriers separating cashiers and customers” are needed. All these stores have to do is stop selling alcohol and they can keep their barriers
You might want to talk to people who live in, or pass through these areas before passing judgement on things you have never, ever experienced.
On 12 March 2014 Chicagobusiness.com announced that a Swiss bakery goods company had acquired Chicago baked goods maker Cloverhill.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20140312/blogs08/140319884/chicagos-cloverhill-bakery-scooped-up-by-swiss-company
Then in June 2015 this ex-employee informs us of a great company and changes:
“Collection Specialist (Current Employee) – Chicago, IL – June 11, 2015
This was a great company to work for… until it changed.
This was a privately owned company started by 2 brothers and then passed on to the 2 sons of one of the brothers.
Last year the sons sold the company to an international corporation. Good for them – they get to retire early.
However, the new owners have no concept on how this company runs, the customer base, even the product lines.”
See: https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Cloverhill-Bakery/reviews
Then in January 2016 this ex-employee points out a discrimination problem:
“Production Worker (Former Employee) – Cicero, il – January 29, 2016
Let me start off by saying this place needs to be investigated bt INS or something people acting like they don’t speak English disrespecting African Americans primarily the males very dissatisfied with the level of professionalism don’t work there unless u are a friend of racial profiling”
See: https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Cloverhill-Bakery/reviews
Something seemed rotten and apparently it was. How do you accidentally hire 800 illegal immigrants? According to Bloomberg that was 35% of their workforce.
See: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-27/chicago-bakery-s-immigration-issues-plague-otis-spunkmeyer-maker
And then this:
“The bakery used an unnamed staffing agency to make the hires and says it didn’t verify the immigration statuses of its employees, a fairly frequent occurrence in the hospitality and agriculture industries.”
See: https://chicago.eater.com/2017/11/29/16716666/mcdonalds-bakery-immigrant-raid-cloverhill-chicago-800-workers
So perhaps the INS should investigate any business which uses a staffing agency to hire unskilled labor. Does anyone really believe that staffing agencies are needed to hire unskilled labor?
Democrats and Republicans are in favor of protecting under educated American workers ability to get a job. (On some theoretical or theological level.) But not at the expense of illegal immigrants.
JimH,
The hiring agency thing si just a shield, but it does not stop the company from being criminally liable.
EMichael,
Look harder. Aryzta is advertising for bakery jobs in Chicago: https://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=Aryzta&l=Chicago
I see jobs for bakery operations, bakery warehouse clerks, etc.
As to Philly… if alcohol magically disappeared from the earth the area in question would still be full of stores with bulletproof barriers. In fact, the problem isn’t even the bulletproof glass. You are like an observer blaming the chemotherapy rather the malignant tumor the size of a grapefruit for the patient’s untimely death.
JimH,
Thanks for the history.
How long have they been advertising?
How about that–Trump just created 800 more jobs for American citizens. These scumbags are now going to pay better wages as well. It’s a double win.
I’d like to see every executive of the company prosecuted and imprisoned as well, but we know that won’t happen.
kimel,
You know nothing.
Perhaps you should read your links in full. Maybe pay attention to the people that live around these stores and the effects on their lives.
Nah, not what you want.
Well,
I am at a loss to understand the connection between the bulletproof glass and the off-sale of alcohol or whatever it is that is the problem?
Cob,
The problem is that these places serve alcohol a shot at a time. That there is no rest room available. Subsequently they attract a clientele with enough money fo one or two drinks, who then hang around that neighborhood and use other places for their rest room needs.
I fly to Philly twice a year. Always go the the old neighborhood for a cheesesteak when I land. Right up until I saw one of these places down the block, and the 20 0r 30 “people” standing around.
After 60 years in the same locale, the real restaurant closed. Not many would dare pass the gauntlet set up by these places. They moved to a nicer area.
So, Kimel is defending proprietors that are ruining neighborhoods. as he continues his jack of all trades, competent in nothing posts.
This one from 3000 miles away.
EMichael
thank you. but what does the bullet proof glass have to do with it?
no doubt these places wouldn’t last 24 hours without the glass, but the logic seems to me to be the same logic that wants to kill unemployment insurance to force people to get a job.
i lived behind a liquor store in Gainesville Florida for a year, The customers bought their bottles and came out and drank them in their cars. It was ugly, but at least while i lived there not particularly dangerous.
i suppose the times are more dangerous now (thanks probably to the stop coddling the poor ethic), but taking away the glass will not solve the problem… it’s just more of that putting the effect before the cause thinking.
JackD,
Probably continuously. From experience, big enough companies always have turnover and are always trying to fill a spot. Manufacturing floor roles have more turnover than white collar roles since the positions require little specialization and the benefits tend not to be great. So a plant employing more than 200 people is going to be constantly looking for people.
EMichael,
Um, are “people” different from people and if so, how do we differentiate between the two groups?
Also, as I stated before… if alcohol disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, the need for bulletproof glass in stores in certain neighborhoods of Philadelopha won’t go away. Now perhaps you might have some ideas about the need for that type of barrier if your aforementioned “people” disappeared.
“People” in this case are mainly prostitutes and drug dealers and addicts.
Cob, the bullet proof glass thing is about kimel’s post and the ““If the glass comes down, the crime rate will rise and there will be lots of dead bodies,” Rich Kim, the owner of Broad Deli, which sells soda, meals and beer by the can, told FOX29. “The most important thing is safety and the public’s safety.”
This ignores the actual point that these places have obtained licenses under false pretenses and have created their own circle of protection inside the glass while the neighborhood deals with the violence and crime.
Mike
“certain neighborhoods”:
we had a robbery-killing in a donut shop in my neighborhood some years ago. at the time my daughter was working in another neighborhood, also donut shop, and i began thinking about bullet proof glass.
the killer was white, by the way.
Cob,
The difference is this, who hangs around donut shops?
I asked about when they began advertising because apparently earlier they were filling positions through an agency to the tune of hundreds of people. I wonder if they started advertising because of the immigration hit. Then their lack of success would need to be evaluated in light of the time of the effort as well as the competitive or non competitive nature of their pay scales. Manufacturers throughout the United States complain they can’t find qualified people but at the same time they won’t raise their wages or undertake training of “unqualified” applicants. Color me skeptical.
EMichael
apparently people with guns who are willing to kill the clerk.
as far as i can tell, you are arguing that taking away the glass will force the bad store owners to stop dirtying up the neighborhood.
i don’t think it will. there are other ways to protect the clerks. taking away the glass is just another in a long series of ass backward cures for things, and people, you don’t like.
Cob,
You are missing the point. It is not about the glass, it is about the fact that these stores have obtained liquor licenses by posing as restaurants. Real restaurants have to worry about their clientele, but not these people. They throw them out on the street with their shots of alcohol and cans of beer.
Taking away the liquor licenses is the point, not the glass.
EM
that IS my point. so why are we talking about the glass?
Because without the glass these stores will not dispense their shots and beers.
EMichael,
Without the glass you will also lose the stores that don’t serve alcohol too. I have noticed that you can predict which gas stations have said barriers by a) the neighborhood and b) the space immediately surrounding the gas station. The same factors seem to hold true whether in CA or PA.
kimel,
You need to read your links in full.
No, the stores that do not have restaurant licenses will not lose their glass.
Once again, you cherry pick tiny parts of a story and spin straw men.
EMichael,
My point was that it isn’t the presence of alcohol that leads places to put up barriers. I would venture to say most places with those barriers don’t serve alcohol or food at all. But they wouldn’t stay in business without the barriers. And neither will the restaurants.
I’ll just ignore the ever changing thought process(sic) as it is making discussion impossible.
You simply refuse to understand that these are not restaurants by any stretch of the imagination. They have circumvented the law to receive restaurant licenses, and the actions of the pols you attack are merely to stop theses places who are destroying neighborhoods. Neighborhoods that are already edgy, but these places make changes harder to do.
“Councilwoman Cindy Bass walked into Kenny’s Seafood & Steaks, a small army of people behind her, wearing matching “Fit 30” T-shirts.
Without explanation, the group began setting up folding tables and chairs in the cramped stop-and-go at 4931 Wayne Ave., where neither steak nor seafood is on the menu.
Stop-and-go stores — small convenience stores, delis, or gas stations with liquor licenses — often operate outside of the law, which requires that they sell food and have enough tables and chairs for at least 30 people. Bass’ “Fit 30” campaign, which she launched Friday, aims to expose establishments that are breaking that law, in an attempt to get liquor licenses revoked or force businesses to change their ways.
Owner Jeff Liu watched, confused, from behind his counter, shielded by a plastic partition, as the group entered his store. Behind him, floor-to-ceiling coolers held hundreds of $2.50 beers, a colorful array of malt liquors, and wine coolers. Display shelves were loaded with dice, lighters, cigarette cartons, candy, and pain medication.
“Do you have a menu? Do you sell food?” Bass asked Liu.
“We sold food before, not right now,” Liu said as the crowd of about 30, packed shoulder-to-shoulder in the store, erupted in jeers.
“You’re supposed to sell food,” Bass said.
Liu’s store has a full kitchen, as do many stores similar to his, but he said that when he used to prepare food, no one would buy it, so the kitchen sits unused in the back.
As the crowd packed up the furniture to leave, Liu, looking a bit frazzled, said he believed the attention was unfair. “There are 200 delis, stores like this, why pick on me?” he said.
The proliferation of stop-and-go stores is the problem, Bass said. There are three in one block of Wayne Avenue in Germantown. Bass’ chief of staff mapped 23 in her district, which includes Nicetown, Tioga, Logan, and other parts of North Philadelphia. Hundreds are scattered across the city.
Map of stop-and-go shops in Philly’s Eighth District
Complaints about the stores run the gamut — they attract crime, sell to minors, prey on vulnerable populations, and, in the case of those selling candy and snacks, expose kids to alcohol at a young age.
“When at 9 o’clock there are at least five people outside of a stop-and-go drinking, that’s a problem,” said Daphne Goggins, 54, a Republican ward leader in Northeast Philadelphia, who joined Bass on the tour.
“Our children walk to school and they’re seeing this on a daily basis, people out early in the morning drinking,” Goggins said. “They come home from school and those same people are there drinking. It’s a disease, and we need to address that, but this is teaching our children that it’s normal.”
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/city/councilwoman-bass-holds-sit-in-at-illegal-stop-and-go-stores-20170623.html
EMichael,
Well, since you are advocating this change it is worth clarifying what you believe the benefits that will come from the new law. If I read you correctly you feel it will lead to less people standing about publicly intoxicated and less associated activities such as crime, public urination, vagrancy, etc. is that correct?
Mike,
Yes, that is correct. But it is not just me, it is most of the people who live in these neighborhoods. People who are trying to improve their communities.
Now, go ahead and post some crime stats so you can change the subject again.
EM
first you tell me it’s about the glass
then you tell me it isn’t
now you tell me it is.
but, whether you can imagine it or not, i have no trouble thinking of a dozen ways they can still sell alcohol off-site without the glass.
as hard as it is for you to imagine it, i am not arguing with you about the desirability of stores like this, i am arguing that going after the glass is an ass backward way of going about fixing he problem.
not at all unusual.
Cob,
You need to understand how these liquor licenses in PA are regulated. There are not enough PLCB agents to monitor and regulate these stores. Yes, the glass thing is a backwards method of regulating these stores, but when that is all you have to work with, it is what you work with. Meanwhile, there is legislation moving through the state that will confront this problem more directly.
And in terms of your “dozen ways they can still sell alcohol off-site without the glass”, you have no idea what you are talking about.
EMichael
actually, it’s YOU have no idea what I am talking about.
Cob,
I doubt I am the only one.
You just cannot seem to understand that none of these would even consider selling shots and beer without the glass.
EM
of course you are not the only one. they used to pay me to teach people what i knew. i failed miserably.
i would point out however that i began my part of this exchange by admitting that which you say i cannot understand: that those business would not survive 24 hours without bullet proof glass.
after i thought about it further, i began to see ways they could adapt. you could see them too if you thought about it further.
my principle objection is the sheer stupidity of of assuming “it’s the only way…”
and that’s not because i am so fond of off-sale liquor establishments. it’s just that i really hate the people who say the only way to make the poor work is to deny them unemployment or welfare benefits.
and similar backwards “reasoning.”