How would a government shutdown work?
by Bruce Webb
Because I don’t get it. The U.S. government operates on a Fiscal Year basis meaning that next year starts on Sept 30th. Which means, far as I know that government operations, including implementation of HCR, are funded right through the next Sept 30th (because I don’t think there are important Appropriations bills hanging, nor would R’s have control prior). And while I don’t see any Constitutional bar to a new Republican majority passing legislation to actively stop some government spending simple inaction wouldn’t seem to have any effect. And there would not seem to be enough of a political opening to push anything through in light of the ability of a Democratic Senate filibuster (not that I think the Dems will lose the Senate) or a Presidential veto to block action. Are Republicans, in light of what will be at best a narrow majority REALLY willing to institutionalize their image of the Party of No by simply refusing to pass ANY budget and appropriations bills next year? Do they really plan to go to the American people and explain their plan to close all National Parks right in time for next Labor Day? Oh and by the way there will be no one to process your Social Security check come fall?
From Republican rhetoric you would think they have the option to change the name plates on the Office of the Speaker one day and then turn out the lights of DC the next. But from where I sit and from what I know it just doesn’t work that way. Are these guys just blowing smoke? Or just inhaling deeply on some really great ganja? As I said I don’t get this at all. The politics maybe, the mechanics though? Not seeing it.
But that is the whole point. Granny still gets her paycheck Feb 1 and May 1 and Aug 1 and the months in between. And the only reason she WOULDN’T get her Nov 1 check is active refusal by a Republican majority to act by Sept 30, 2011. How hard of a message would that be for Dem’s to sell. “See what happens when you elect Republicans?”
People may dislike the government in the abstract, but I am not sure they will be happy to find out that the School Lunch program is cancelled for their kids come next fall. Or pick your own example. The Republicans are out there actively whipping up hysteria about cost savings in Medicare via HCR. do they really propose to turn on a dime and shut down Medicare as a whole?
Bruce as I suspected its all exaggeration in order to fire up the remaining supporters. This is what was actually said: “
Westmoreland said his caucus — presuming it takes control of the House come November — aims to pass spending bills that Obama is likely to veto. He predicted Republicans would not be able to override such a veto, creating a standoff that could cause Congress to grind to a halt.
“If the government shuts down, we want you with us,” he said.…”
Note, no threat just a reference for a potential future possibility.
As I assumed an exaggeration ginned up by a couple of blog articles and just politics of the left.
Sad and desperate, really.
Oh, Bruce, the mechanics are simple. Congress just refuses to pass a funding bill. The Health Care Bill crosses several agency fences so it doesn’t have to be all that expansive.
Sad and desperate describes your pathetic attempt to claim I brought this up out of nowhere.
Republicans have been openly running on the slogan “Repeal the Bill”. Can’t be done. Now they have switched to “Defund the Bill”. Can’t be done either, not before Sept 2011. Which is the point of the post.
SS admin requires such an appropriation. Which is why DI claims are notoriously slow, although the costs of the appeals as with all other admin costs are ultimately debited from the TF the staffing money has to go through the appropriations process. I am sure NO has plenty of horror stories in this regard.
No you just claimed it was “genned up” and in regards to my motivations “answered my own question”. Sorry dude “egg meets face”
“During a speech at the Faith and Freedom Coalition convention today, Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA) explained that as a recruitment officer for the NRCC, the Republican campaign committee in charge of electing House Republicans, he picked candidates that would stand with the caucus in unified campaigns to slash government, starting with health care. If Republicans take back the House, Westmoreland said, they would use their new majority to force a budget battle akin to the fight staged by former Speaker Newt Gingrich with President Clinton and shut down the federal government. Westmoreland cautioned that he was fully aware that such a move would close down hospitals for veterans and shut down National Parks. But, Westmoreland argued that taking down the government is worth “the pain” because health reform and government programs are like a “gangrene” that “need to be cleaned out””
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/10/westmoreland-shut-down/
NanO said: “it’s clear what “repeal the bill” actually means to peoples’ Medicare claims, the result is likely to be unfavorable for a R majority in Congress.” I think you are confusing repealing the bill with not funding SSA.
BTW the plan is repeal; and repair, but I’m not sure why anyone would want to repeal it when it can just be repaired.
Bruce, such a coalition could repeal it and then make a bill that makes sense. This one has so much crap in it, is so rife with overhead, and falls short in so many areas, it should at the very least be repaired.
CoRev,
Continuing resolutions (CR) work for months and months after 1 Oct, until appropriations bills are passed. There are 13 bills needed to provide appropriations for various agency to operate.
The only limit is use the budget from last year for spending.
I have worked under CR’s in DoD programs from 1 Oct to January or longer for as long as I can remember, which is getting a bit vague from FY 7T when they changed from 1 July to 1 Oct to start the federal FY. I had jobs doing budgeting and cost accounting for earned value on contracts off and on in my federal career.
And besides no one has prosecuted an anti deficiency, (I came close once, but went for OPM discipline) even when GAO discovered audit evidence that an Army command had spent Iraq supplemental money for which there was no appropriation item passed. No one was prosecuted.
So, let’s see the GOP’ers shutter the government and try and pass anything for years.
Think about this, of the survey about the Obamacare, a lot of the “no” responses were like me who are not going rethug, but are mad for the compromises in the bill with the rethugs.
I will have my vote on Nov 5th count.
ILSM, what is this supposed to mean? “So, let’s see the GOP’ers shutter the government and try and pass anything for years.”
It doesn’t seem to follow in the context of the discussion.
Well there goes my liberal credentials.
But after years of experience I have found that opening the ball with “Rot in Hell you Bastards” rarely results in civil debates over public policy. Odd I know but apparently true.
Federal funding and its political effects (the real issue, not the shutdown mechanism) are governed by a very simple rule: Congress is punished when it hurts voters. And a government wide shutdown will hurt voters.
All the people with anti-government spending fervor out there are not directing the cuts at themselves, but “those other people”. They may cheer the idea of spending cuts or a shutdown, but when those actions bite them, watch out!
I’m not directly on the dole, so I can watch the event with some detatchment. I hope the GOP impales itself on a shutdown; that part will be entertaining.
Bruce, this administrtion is one of the most politically, economically, and technically inept in recent history. That ineptness is demonstrated in the HCR. Voters recognition and anger at the administration and remorse having voted for him show up in the MO 71 to 29% vote and the 56% polling against the HCR.
The Obama administration has been successful with portions of the bill. Because only portions of the bill are acceptable to the voters, it should be repaired and not just repealed.
Regardless of how much of the bill is acceptable, it is wrapped in soe much other unacceptable garbage, the only strategy acceptable to the voters may be to repeal it first. Expect a bipartisan effort early in the next Congress to propose that. If that group is big enough it will first be repealed before being repaired.
You seem to feel that issue is Republican, but there are NO Dems running on voting for the bill. If Nov 2 goes really poorly for Dems, then the bipartisan group will be large because those Dems that are elected will have felt the voter anger.
@CoRev,
Google is your friend. The quote can be found here:
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/10/westmoreland-shut-down/
I suppose now you’ll say you won’t believe it is a real quote from a real Republican until you see Westmoreland’s birth certificate?
wkj
i wouldn’t try to predict the next development in the insane assylum since the inmates took over.
you’d think if the debt was such a big deal, them patriots would vote themselves a tax raise. about 3% would do it. of course we all know what happened after the Bush tax raises so we’d have to expect the economy to… oh, wait…
there is a kind of logical conundrum here. if the government shuts down the government, how will the government ever take a vote to restart it? seems to me if they pull the trigger, the us govt is done.
wally,
we could only hope.
Well as an entitlement, Granny gets her check whether appropriations are passed or not because that check is NOT made from appropriated funds. Rather ther is ALREADY a law that says she is entitlled to it, so no new law has to be passed to appropriate the money for it. Now of course the employees processing SS claims ARE paid with appropriated funds, so it is likely and expected that new claims will be slowed in processing. As a legal mandate, though issueing checks IS generall considered an “essential function.” In general, furloughs never last longer than about 3 weeks because that’s when the essential employees would start missing paychecks.
Savings don’t really enter into it, government employees don’t typically miss a paycheck. There’s typically a lag of a week and a half between the end of the pay period and the time paychecks are issued. So depending on when in the pay period the furlough starts, it takes between ~1.5-3.5 weeks before anybody misses a paycheck. And of course while Congress has always passed a law giving pay to those who were furloughed, in the absence of such legislation, said employees are not entitled to any such pay.
KH, my assertion was that there was discussion of what is possible, but was a long way from a threat. The threat has been ginned up by the left blogosphere, and a few willing foot soldiers.
It’s a sign of the times where it’s necessary to stir up the Dem core supporters.
BTW, anybody notice it has not been reported in the MSM?
Lots of rude awakenings and large surprises headed the Left’s way in about three years. When will they figure out that there is nothing in the Democratic agenda that the majority of Americans want. Of course, it took awhile for Silent Majority to figure out what was happending once the mask got ripped off, but once the silent majority doesn’t like it, it is only a matter of time before it gets changed to the way they want it.
There is no way in hell the HCR stays the way it is now, and no way in hell Cap & Trade gets put in place.
actually JImi
the Constitution was carefully written to protect the silent majority from itself. our problem is not with the mob, but with the very rich people who own the media and tell the mob what it thinks.
you are perfectly right about “no way in hell” cause thats where we are going in a handbasket, and i say that even though i don’t much like “individual mandates” or cap and trade.